Ghorids

[Afghanfootball]

https://books.google.com/books?id=Nz...0aimaq&f=false

So a man who claimed to be descendents of Ghorids did not consider himself to be Tajik or Aimaq. Only seems to be one other choice.

[Samandri]

https://books.google.com/books?id=Nz...0aimaq&f=false

So a man who claimed to be descendents of Ghorids did not consider himself to be Tajik or Aimaq. Only seems to be one other choice.

Your link is not working. Some points ,

1-There are numerous people in India, who have surnames "Ghoris" (There is MQM leader Babur Khan Ghori). They live in the Mohallas or bastis of Pathans, mostly in U.P and Bihar, and consider themselves Pathans, and were registered as Pathans by British.

2- These Ghoris India are most probably descendants of Ghoria Khels. Abu Fazal of Akbarnama use word Ghori for Ghoria Khels of Peshawar.

But

3- There was one dynasty of Ghori in India. In 1401, Dilawar Khan Ghori established an independent rule in Malwa, he was followed by his son Hoshang Shah Ghori. Moreover some of the nobles of the Bahmani dynasty had surnames "Ghori"........it weakens my earlier assumption that Ghori Pathans could be Ghoria Khels.

4- From whatever we have discussed and known so far, it seems people of Ghor were neither Pashtuns not farsiwans, but closely related eastern Iranian group.

5- Unless you have mind of doing Phd thesis on it, you need to move on from the topics of ghorids and mother of Mahmud Ghaznavi, you are kind of stuck with it.

[Dilawerkhan]

Ghori Kurd Dynasty

I found a couple of old books online that discuss the Malik Kurd Ghori Dynasty:

1- An inquiry into the ethnography of Afghanistan, H.W. Bellew, The Oriental University Institute, London, 1891, pg 73-74.

2- Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran, Henry Field, Field Museum of Natural History, Publication 458, Chicago, 1939, pg 89

The following is some information from the books:



The Kurd Gali are a Kurdish tribe in Baluchistan-Sistan province of Iran. They established a dynasty in Luristan (between Kirman and Khuzistan) around the beginning of the 12th century, and maintained their authority until Shah Abbas annexed their province in the 16th century.

The Malik Kurd Ghor dynasty was established by Shamsuddin Kurd, governor of Khorasan, for Sultan Ghiasuddin Ghori, around 1245 A.D. He was confirmed in his authority by Mughal Emperor Hulagu, of whom he was a vassal, and greatly increased his power and authority in the reign of his succesor, Abaka Khan.

Shamsuddin was succeeded by his son Ruknuddin, at his capital, Herat, Afghanistan. Ruknuddin took Kandahar, Afghanistan, and died in the reign of Sultan Arghun Khan, around 1280 A.D. His brother, Ghiasuddin Malik Kurd, then succeeded, and was confirmed by the Mughal Emperor Aljaitu Khan in his command of Ghor to the confines of the provinces on the Indus river in Pakistan.

The Malik Kurd dynasty was extinguished around 1380 A.D., when Amir Timur (Tamerlane) took Herat, and slew its last prince and his son.

[marwat]

Your link is not working. Some points ,

1-There are numerous people in India, who have surnames "Ghoris" (There is MQM leader Babur Khan Ghori). They live in the Mohallas or bastis of Pathans, mostly in U.P and Bihar, and consider themselves Pathans, and were registered as Pathans by British.

2- These Ghoris India are most probably descendants of Ghoria Khels. Abu Fazal of Akbarnama use word Ghori for Ghoria Khels of Peshawar.

But

3- There was one dynasty of Ghori in India. In 1401, Dilawar Khan Ghori established an independent rule in Malwa, he was followed by his son Hoshang Shah Ghori. Moreover some of the nobles of the Bahmani dynasty had surnames "Ghori"........it weakens my earlier assumption that Ghori Pathans could be Ghoria Khels.

4- From whatever we have discussed and known so far, it seems people of Ghor were neither Pashtuns not farsiwans, but closely related eastern Iranian group.

5- Unless you have mind of doing Phd thesis on it, you need to move on from the topics of ghorids and mother of Mahmud Ghaznavi, you are kind of stuck with it.

i have another half backed theory, on who were Ghori

[Samandri]

i have another half backed theory, on who were Ghori

Spill it out, without hesitation

[Afghanfootball]

I found a couple of old books online that discuss the Malik Kurd Ghori Dynasty:

1- An inquiry into the ethnography of Afghanistan, H.W. Bellew, The Oriental University Institute, London, 1891, pg 73-74.

2- Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran, Henry Field, Field Museum of Natural History, Publication 458, Chicago, 1939, pg 89

The following is some information from the books:



The Kurd Gali are a Kurdish tribe in Baluchistan-Sistan province of Iran. They established a dynasty in Luristan (between Kirman and Khuzistan) around the beginning of the 12th century, and maintained their authority until Shah Abbas annexed their province in the 16th century.

The Malik Kurd Ghor dynasty was established by Shamsuddin Kurd, governor of Khorasan, for Sultan Ghiasuddin Ghori, around 1245 A.D. He was confirmed in his authority by Mughal Emperor Hulagu, of whom he was a vassal, and greatly increased his power and authority in the reign of his succesor, Abaka Khan.

Shamsuddin was succeeded by his son Ruknuddin, at his capital, Herat, Afghanistan. Ruknuddin took Kandahar, Afghanistan, and died in the reign of Sultan Arghun Khan, around 1280 A.D. His brother, Ghiasuddin Malik Kurd, then succeeded, and was confirmed by the Mughal Emperor Aljaitu Khan in his command of Ghor to the confines of the provinces on the Indus river in Pakistan.

The Malik Kurd dynasty was extinguished around 1380 A.D., when Amir Timur (Tamerlane) took Herat, and slew its last prince and his son.

Strongly doubt that they were Kurdish seems very far fetched. But thanks for the contribution.

[Afghanfootball]

Your link is not working. Some points ,

1-There are numerous people in India, who have surnames "Ghoris" (There is MQM leader Babur Khan Ghori). They live in the Mohallas or bastis of Pathans, mostly in U.P and Bihar, and consider themselves Pathans, and were registered as Pathans by British.

2- These Ghoris India are most probably descendants of Ghoria Khels. Abu Fazal of Akbarnama use word Ghori for Ghoria Khels of Peshawar.

But

3- There was one dynasty of Ghori in India. In 1401, Dilawar Khan Ghori established an independent rule in Malwa, he was followed by his son Hoshang Shah Ghori. Moreover some of the nobles of the Bahmani dynasty had surnames "Ghori"........it weakens my earlier assumption that Ghori Pathans could be Ghoria Khels.

4- From whatever we have discussed and known so far, it seems people of Ghor were neither Pashtuns not farsiwans, but closely related eastern Iranian group.

5- Unless you have mind of doing Phd thesis on it, you need to move on from the topics of ghorids and mother of Mahmud Ghaznavi, you are kind of stuck with it.

The guy in my link was living in Ghor.

It seems unlikely to me that they could have been a distinct eastern Aryan speaking group that was just wiped out of the region considering the strength of the Ghorids. They could have been remnants of Hephthalite tribes that were Pashtunized.

[Afghanfootball]

Here's a better link

https://books.google.com/books?id=Nz_2AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=ghorids+aimaq&source=bl&ots=jnpVR3VX06&sig=MUfz9AO6V8UR7MfH2cYV60oF7GY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi76aTJ-LzLAhVovYMKHZZ9CFwQ6AEIKzAE#v=onepage&q=ghorids%20aimaq&f=false

[Dilawerkhan]

Strongly doubt that they were Kurdish seems very far fetched. But thanks for the contribution.

Have you found any evidence to suggest that the old literature cited is incorrect, or is it based on your hunch?

Kurds seem to have been in that area for a very long time, even before the birth of Afghanistan. Ali Mardan Khan, a Kurd, was the governor of Kandhar (early 1600s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mardan_Khan. Also, some Brahui and Baloch tribes are descended from Kurds. There are many sources of information on this online. Those tribes migrated from NW Iran to the Balochistan area around 1000 - 2000 years ago.

[Afghanfootball]

Have you found any evidence to suggest that the old literature cited is incorrect, or is it based on your hunch?

Kurds seem to have been in that area for a very long time, even before the birth of Afghanistan. Ali Mardan Khan, a Kurd, was the governor of Kandhar (early 1600s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mardan_Khan. Also, some Brahui and Baloch tribes are descended from Kurds. There are many sources of information on this online. Those tribes migrated from NW Iran to the Balochistan area around 1000 - 2000 years ago.

You quotes Bellew who has allot interesting info but allot of it is also complete BS like how he claims majority of Pashtun tribes are Rajputs.

Bellew is the only historian who I have ever seen call the Ghorids Kurdish or give them the last name of Kurd. They were Suri their last names were Suri or Ghori and there is no Suri kurd tribe.

There being a Kurd governor of Kandahar means nothing. He was just a Safavid governor. There was also an Afghan governor of Azarbaijan but that does not mean we are indigenous to that area.

[Samandri]

You quotes Bellew who has allot interesting info but allot of it is also complete BS like how he claims majority of Pashtun tribes are Rajputs.

Bellew is the only historian who I have ever seen call the Ghorids Kurdish or give them the last name of Kurd. They were Suri their last names were Suri or Ghori and there is no Suri kurd tribe.

There being a Kurd governor of Kandahar means nothing. He was just a Safavid governor. There was also an Afghan governor of Azarbaijan but that does not mean we are indigenous to that area.

He is mistaking "Kurt" for Kurd..........you are right they were Ghorids

[Dilawerkhan]

He is mistaking "Kurt" for Kurd..........you are right they were Ghorids

Kurts are nothing more than Kurds. If they were truly a seperate entity, one would get a few hits on them in google. It is almost the same as saying pashtums were different than pashtuns.

Various peoples are associated with Ghori Empire. It is a matter of time and space.

Various Brahui and Balochi tribes with Kurd origins have been in the area for a couple of thousand years. Genetics, and historical accounts given by both Baloch and non-Baloch of their migration from the NW Iran area backs this up. An online search of "kurd baloch" or "kurds balochistan" or "kurd brahui" should bring up some sources

[Afghanfootball]

Kurts are nothing more than Kurds. If they were truly a seperate entity, one would get a few hits on them in google. It is almost the same as saying pashtums were different than pashtuns.

Various peoples are associated with Ghori Empire. It is a matter of time and space.

Various Brahui and Balochi tribes with Kurd origins have been in the area for a couple of thousand years. Genetics, and historical accounts given by both Baloch and non-Baloch of their migration from the NW Iran area backs this up. An online search of "kurd baloch" or "kurds balochistan" or "kurd brahui" should bring up some sources

No kurts have nothing to do with Kurds. Name sounding similar doesn't mean anything considering kurts are from a completely different area.

Also the Balochi Kurd connection is probably just the same asize Pashtun Israelite theory.

[Dilawerkhan]

No kurts have nothing to do with Kurds. Name sounding similar doesn't mean anything considering kurts are from a completely different area.

Also the Balochi Kurd connection is probably just the same asize Pashtun Israelite theory.

Since you seem to know so much about Kurts, maybe you can share something with me, since I and I am sure most people know nothing about them.

You can't be seriously comparing the Kurd Baloch connection with the Pashtun Israelite theory. Then again if you are doing that it indicates to me you have not researched the connection based on DNA, language, and historical accounts, not to mention the Brahui Kurd tribe, or all the Baloch with last name Kurd.

In my previous post I suggested online search terms so that you may become more familiar with the connection. Also FYI, even though many Kurds became known as Baloch, some have still retained their Kurd identity in Balochistan. Among them are my ancestors, the Sohrabzai serhadi kurds of Balochistan. There are also about 1.5 million kurds in khorasan. You can visit their website, the cultural society of khorasani kurds. You can also search serhadi kurds of balochistan if you want to become more knowledgeable on the subject