Ghurids are not Pashtuns (H.G.Raverty)

[Kushan Prince]

This RTR was such a leach! A few weeks after i was gone from this forum and the crap he was spreading!

Since when the heck did Tajiks live in tribes? Actually when did the Persians live in tribes? They never did, they identify by village and province.

The BSS ghool also does not understand that different writers misinterpreted different meaning of words. "Tajik tribes" could mean a band or a collection of people like and ethnic group, just like ancient times, Pakthas and Bactrians were known as "tribes" and so were the kambojas and Schytians who belonged to Iranian tribes.

The word "Tajik" has always refered to someone speaking Persian, but not being of Persian decent themselves. Heck they could have been arabs like the moron BSS (aka RTR) but ghool is to afraid to relate himself to Tajiks.

[Afghanfootball]

This RTR was such a leach! A few weeks after i was gone from this forum and the crap he was spreading!

Since when the heck did Tajiks live in tribes? Actually when did the Persians live in tribes? They never did, they identify by village and province.

The BSS ghool also does not understand that different writers misinterpreted different meaning of words. "Tajik tribes" could mean a band or a collection of people like and ethnic group, just like ancient times, Pakthas and Bactrians were known as "tribes" and so were the kambojas and Schytians who belonged to Iranian tribes.

The word "Tajik" has always refered to someone speaking Persian, but not being of Persian decent themselves. Heck they could have been arabs like the moron BSS (aka RTR) but ghool is to afraid to relate himself to Tajiks.

He had a very weak understanding of history in Afghanistan and it was quite obvious that most info he got was from Wikipedia. The fact that he thought there were different Tajik tribe shows he has a very weak understanding of the different ethnicities sin Afghanistan.

[Kushan Prince]

He had a very weak understanding of history in Afghanistan and it was quite obvious that most info he got was from Wikipedia. The fact that he thought there were different Tajik tribe shows he has a very weak understanding of the different ethnicities sin Afghanistan.

I didn't expect him to be this ignorant on history, it seems like he didn't understand the proper concept of the sources he was shown and tried to create a counterargument with no proof, exactly what he was doing to you.

This is what we call "conformation bias."

[Afghanfootball]

Actually the word Tajik did not even exist at that time or was only used in Turkestan and north Afghanistan. The word Tajik was brought south by Pashtun rulers after they conquered areas like Badakhshan and Panjshir.

"In Badaḵšān and Panjšir of Afghanistan, Tājik was a heteronym bestowed by the local Uzbeks, and adopted by the ruling Pashtuns and the local Persian-speakers themselves in comparatively recent times. In journalistic usage it is increasingly applied to speakers of Persian (or Dari, the official term coined by a Pashtun nationalist government) in Kabul and throughout the north of Afghanistan, with the exception of the Hazāras."

Most Tajiks in Afghanistan today are wrongly called Tajik. Originally they were called either Farsiwan or by the city they were from Herati, Kabuli, Balkhi, etc. They are also native to Afghanistan and they have the same origins as Pashtuns. They probably made up the urban population of medieval Afghanistan while Pashtuns made up the rural areas.

[Kushan Prince]

Actually the word Tajik did not even exist at that time or was only used in Turkestan and north Afghanistan. The word Tajik was brought south by Pashtun rulers after they conquered areas like Badakhshan and Panjshir.

"In Badaḵšān and Panjšir of Afghanistan, Tājik was a heteronym bestowed by the local Uzbeks, and adopted by the ruling Pashtuns and the local Persian-speakers themselves in comparatively recent times. In journalistic usage it is increasingly applied to speakers of Persian (or Dari, the official term coined by a Pashtun nationalist government) in Kabul and throughout the north of Afghanistan, with the exception of the Hazāras."

Most Tajiks in Afghanistan today are wrongly called Tajik. Originally they were called either Farsiwan or by the city they were from Herati, Kabuli, Balkhi, etc. They are also native to Afghanistan and they have the same origins as Pashtuns. They probably made up the urban population of medieval Afghanistan while Pashtuns made up the rural areas.

Tajiks have skewed origins, they are not all the same people. You are correct that Tajik was popularized by local turks but made its mark during the soviet era thanks to Russian influx. However, Pashtuns have always called them as Farsiwans, the term it self just means "Persian speaker" and many tajiks are content with it. I don't believe Tajiks are indigenous to Afghanistan, really no proof to support this claim and considering the many Uzbek and tajik migrants northern afg received during the 1920s, and with Ahmad Shah Massoud's great grandfather originally coming from southern Tajikistan, proves their immigrant origins.

You should read this, its says how many Tajik immigrants poured in from the north crossing the Amu Darya into Afghanistan in large numbers;

https://books.google.ca/books?id=PB5xgFRuYPUC&lpg=PA48&ots=2sF28iHxSN&dq=soviet%20invasion%20of%20tajikistan&pg=PA48#v=onepage&q=soviet%20invasion%20of%20tajikistan&f=false

[Afghanfootball]

I didn't expect him to be this ignorant on history, it seems like he didn't understand the proper concept of the sources he was shown and tried to create a counterargument with no proof, exactly what he was doing to you.

This is what we call "conformation bias."

It's a bit sad that after half a decade of trying to take away Afghan history he has so little understanding. My guess is he copies the link at the end of the annotations in wiki articles without actually goin through the source.

He embarrassed himself by pulling the same crap when trying to prove Mahmud of Ghazni's mother was Persian.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=47345&page=7

[Afghanfootball]

Tajiks have skewed origins, they are not all the same people. You are correct that Tajik was popularized by local turks but made its mark during the soviet era thanks to Russian influx. However, Pashtuns have always called them as Farsiwans, the term it self just means "Persian speaker" and many tajiks are content with it. I don't believe Tajiks are indigenous to Afghanistan, really no proof to support this claim and considering the many Uzbek and tajik migrants northern afg received during the 1920s, and with Ahmad Shah Massoud's great grandfather originally coming from southern Tajikistan, proves their immigrant origins.

You should read this, its says how many Tajik immigrants poured in from the north crossing the Amu Darya into Afghanistan in large numbers;

https://books.google.ca/books?id=PB5...kistan&f=false

Today's Tajik are definitely a very heterogeneous group. They are mostly Persianized Pashtuns, Uzbeks/Turks, and Pamiri.

Even today Pashtuns use Farsiwan for them however I have them call differentiate between Farsiwan and Tajik. Even my own father was half Kabuli Farsiwan on his mother side. He grew up in Kabul and was very much Persianized but never called himself Tajik but called himself Farsiwan.

Thanks for the link it's very interesting. I actually asked my aunt about Tajiks the other day she said Tajiks came to Afghanistan during the Russian occupation of Tajikistan however the Farsiwans were in Afghanistan already.

[Afghanfootball]

Also we have to remember Pashtuns were nomads and made up the rural population. The big cities after the fall of the Hepthalites most likely spoke Persian (Herat, Balkh) and Sanskrit (Kabul) so who would they have been if the Pashtuns mostly the rural pop? My guess is they would have just identified by which city they were from but the vast majority of the people were probably of the eastern iranic origin and were either Persianized or Indianized.

[Kushan Prince]

Today's Tajik are definitely a very heterogeneous group. They are mostly Persianized Pashtuns, Uzbeks/Turks, and Pamiri.

Even today Pashtuns use Farsiwan for them however I have them call differentiate between Farsiwan and Tajik. Even my own father was half Kabuli Farsiwan on his mother side. He grew up in Kabul and was very much Persianized but never called himself Tajik but called himself Farsiwan.

Thanks for the link it's very interesting. I actually asked my aunt about Tajiks the other day she said Tajiks came to Afghanistan during the Russian occupation of Tajikistan however the Farsiwans were in Afghanistan already.

No problem, btw one my uncle's is married to a Tajik woman, and her family apparently came from Bukhara a long time ago. Its not a problem since they now co-exist with Pashtuns and are now part of Afghanistan. I love how the Kuchis are the only people that know how to use the northern lands, it just proves how long Pashtuns have been migrating north of the hindu kush and back.

We are a nomadic people after all.

[Afghanfootball]

No problem, btw one my uncle's is married to a Tajik woman, and her family apparently came from Bukhara a long time ago. Its not a problem since they now co-exist with Pashtuns and are now part of Afghanistan. I love how the Kuchis are the only people that know how to use the northern lands, it just proves how long Pashtuns have been migrating north of the hindu kush and back.

We are a nomadic people after all.

I love all people of Afghanistan and count them as Afghan regardless of their ethnicity.

I feel like kuchi live closest to the original Pashtuns lifestyle (nomadic lifstyle)