Afghan-Baloch Wars

[Smarty]

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[Kushan Prince]

I'm reading a book currently by O.T Duke about the Pashtun-Baloch wars. One part i was reading said that districts of barkhan and Kohlu were originally Pashtun inhabited until the Marri tribe forced the Pashtun settlement there upwards to zhob. Apparently a lot of Musakhels and Kakars got absorbed by the Marri tribe and became Balochi's.

Pretty interesting read.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Smarty your historical acumen is amazing. Well done.

Love that you provide source material too/

[Kushan Prince]

[MENTION=1234]Smarty[/MENTION]

Smarty, You quoted me providing a written article on the Luni's problems with Marri's who keep invading them for their natural recources which it seems you have deleted since i cannot find it. Within that post, you also said that Luni's, Panis and musakheels are more like Balochi's then Pashtuns. If i misunderstood the vaugness of of your quote incorrectly, are you implying they are not Pashtun? Because to my understanding, the afromentioned are of Pashtun Ghurghasti origin. What exactly did you mean by that, as in cultural or way of thinking?

[Smarty]

@Smarty

Smarty, You quoted me providing a written article on the Luni's problems with Marri's who keep invading them for their natural recources which it seems you have deleted since i cannot find it. Within that post, you also said that Luni's, Panis and musakheels are more like Balochi's then Pashtuns. If i misunderstood the vaugness of of your quote incorrectly, are you implying they are not Pashtun? Because to my understanding, the afromentioned are of Pashtun Ghurghasti origin. What exactly did you mean by that, as in cultural or way of thinking?

Yes in cultural way and in manners and customs, they resemble Balochs more than Pashtuns. Lineage-wise they are Pashtuns. Even linguistically they either dont speak Pashto or mixes it with other langauges. For example Barozais and other Panni clans of Sibi speak Sindhi (a dialect Jatki). Khajjaks speak language which is mixture of Pashto and Sindhi. Musa Khels and Lunis speak Pashto but with mixed vocabulary from Balochi and seraiki. Tareens speak a unique version of Pashto called Tareeno. Zarkuns speak balochi. But all of these tribes, even though Balochized to varying extent, adhere strongly to Pashtun nation and Pashtun nationalism due to their bad history with Balochs. Mostly they are suppoters of Pashtunkhwa Mili Awami Party.
here is video of attan of jafars

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10200702616996221

In Balochistan, the tribes with pure Pashto and Pashtunwali, are Kakars, Sheranis, Tareens of Pishin , Mando Khels and Achakzais.

[Kushan Prince]

Yes in cultural way and in manners and customs, they resemble Balochs more than Pashtuns. Lineage-wise they are Pashtuns. Even linguistically they either dont speak Pashto or mixes it with other langauges. For example Barozais and other Panni clans of Sibi speak Sindhi (a dialect Jatki). Khajjaks speak language which is mixture of Pashto and Sindhi. Musa Khels and Lunis speak Pashto but with mixed vocabulary from Balochi and seraiki. Tareens speak a unique version of Pashto called Tareeno. Zarkuns speak balochi. But all of these tribes, even though Balochized to varying extent, adhere strongly to Pashtun nation and Pashtun nationalism due to their bad history with Balochs. Mostly they are suppoters of Pashtunkhwa Mili Awami Party.
here is video of attan of jafars

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10200702616996221

In Balochistan, the tribes with pure Pashto and Pashtunwali, are Kakars, Sheranis, Tareens of Pishin , Mando Khels and Achakzais.

Musakhels are mostly in the north as well and speak Pashto, borrowing words is commmon in very culture just like how afghan pashto borrows words from arabic and dari. Keep in mind that musakhels and tareens are not only in balochistan but in KPK and Afghanistan as well since thats where they originated from. Culture wise from what i've seen, musakhels adhere to pashtunwali and pashtun culture like taking part in jirgas and doing attan.

[Smarty]

Musakhels are mostly in the north as well and speak Pashto, borrowing words is commmon in very culture just like how afghan pashto borrows words from arabic and dari. Keep in mind that musakhels and tareens are not only in balochistan but in KPK and Afghanistan as well since thats where they originated from. Culture wise from what i've seen, musakhels adhere to pashtunwali and pashtun culture like taking part in jirgas and doing attan.

1- Musa Khel is also a branch of Niazis, a town by name of Musa Khel is in the Mianwali.
2- It is one of the main section of Marwats
3- The Musa Khel we are talking about , is a branch of Pannis.

Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West ..., Volume 1

[Smarty]

Other sub-tribes of Panni are
1- Jadoon or Gadoon
2- Isot
3- Zarkun
4- Safi
5- Marghzani
6- Khajjak
7- Barozai
8- Mizri
9- Dehpal
10- Kurak
11- Lawana

[Kushan Prince]

1- Musa Khel is also a branch of Niazis, a town by name of Musa Khel is in the Mianwali.
2- It is one of the main section of Marwats
3- The Musa Khel we are talking about , is a branch of Pannis.

Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West ..., Volume 1

Smarty,

As far as i know there is only one Musakhel tribe and they are a sub-group of the Kakars. The musakhels and kakar's living in quetta aren't native there and they originate from eastern afghanistan.

[Smarty]

Smarty,

As far as i know there is only one Musakhel tribe and they are a sub-group of the Kakars. The musakhels and kakar's living in quetta aren't native there and they originate from eastern afghanistan.

Some British authors have incorrectly mentioned Musa Khels as Kakars . Neither Musa Khels consider themselves as Kakars nor Kakars consider them as their branch.

[Smarty]

Lets confine our discussion to Afghan-Baloch wars.

[Kushan Prince]

Some British authors have incorrectly mentioned Musa Khels as Kakars . Neither Musa Khels consider themselves as Kakars nor Kakars consider them as their branch.

For your info, i am a Musakhel myself and me and members of my tribe see ourselves as Kakars, not Panni's or "Niazi's" as you deliberately claim. I've asked my dad this as well to clear up the confusion and he believes we are Kakars. Pretty sure i know my tribe more then you.

Also, to clear up any confusion here are the subtribes of kakar.

Kakar Tribe: Descended from Qais through Gurghust, the Kakar are primarily found in present-day Baluchistan, where they still make up the majority of indigenous Pashtuns. In the sixteenth century, the most famous Kakar to-date, Sher Khan (“Lion King,” later to coronate himself Sher Shah, or “Lion Emperor”) served the first Mughal emperor Babur as governor of Bihar in present-day India before rising against Babur’s son, Humayun, and essentially taking over the Mughal Empire. Only after Sher Shah died was Humayun’s son Akbar able to restore the Mughal dynasty. Thus Sher Shah was arguably the most powerful Pashtun in history. The Kakar divisions include Musa Khel (including Shamsheer Khel), Zulfo Khel, Ya’qub Zai, Jadraam, Sargarai, Saam Khel, Taaran, Jalal Khel, Khatan Khel, Charmi Khel, Targharai, Yunus Khel, Isa Zai, Da Marhbado Khel, Hussain Khel, Surani, Makran, Tafoot, Pandaar (Pindaar), Zanakh Zai, and Sher Dad. In Zabul they primarily inhabit the Southern districts.

http://www.afghan-bios.info/index.php?option=com_afghanbios&id=812&task=view&total=3096&start=1302&Itemid=2

[Smarty]

For your info, i am a Musakhel myself and me and members of my tribe see ourselves as Kakars, not Panni's or "Niazi's" as you deliberately claim. I've asked my dad this as well to clear up the confusion and he believes we are Kakars. Pretty sure i know my tribe more then you.

Also, to clear up any confusion here are the subtribes of kakar.



http://www.afghan-bios.info/index.ph...=1302&Itemid=2

Sher Shah Suri was not a Kakar, he was a Suri , a division of Lodhis. The Suri tribe is descended from the eldest of three sons of Ismael s/o of Siarnaey s/o of Ibrahim alias Lodhi.

Kakar tribe is divide into five main divisions , namely Sanzar Khel, Targhara, Sanatia, Dumar and Sarghara.

Musa Khel of Balochistan, neighbors of Kakars, are Ghurghasti Pashtuns from Panni division.

[Kushan Prince]

Sher Shah Suri was not a Kakar, he was a Suri , a division of Lodhis. The Suri tribe is descended from the eldest of three sons of Ismael s/o of Siarnaey s/o of Ibrahim alias Lodhi.

Kakar tribe is divide into five main divisions , namely Sanzar Khel, Targhara, Sanatia, Dumar and Sarghara.

Musa Khel of Balochistan, neighbors of Kakars, are Ghurghasti Pashtuns from Panni division.

Your honestly deluded, they are not Panni's get over it. The Panni's themselves are almost extinct and most of them got absorbed by Balochis. And suri is more of a title then a tribe, its not even a pashto word but a sanskrirt meaning derived from "Sura." Most Pashtuns in Balochistan are either Durrani's or Kakars.

[Smarty]

Your honestly deluded, they are not Panni's get over it. The Panni's themselves are almost extinct and most of them got absorbed by Balochis. And suri is more of a title then a tribe, its not even a pashto word but a sanskrirt meaning derived from "Sura." Most Pashtuns in Balochistan are either Durrani's or Kakars.

Then why "wasting" time with me on some thing that is totally off-topic. I recommend you to read this book which is considered a standard on info about Pashtun tribes but its totally your choice to read it or not.

http://www.khyber.org/books/2012/Pukhtana_Kabilay_Opejanayi.shtml

And Pannis are not extinct. They are most numerous Pashtuns in Balochistan after Kakars. Abdalis or Durranis in Balochistan are only represented by Achakzais. Technically speaking, Abdalis are Bor Tareens and are related to Spin Tareens and Tor Tareens.

For Suris and their status within Lodhi empire , read "Tarikh-i-Sher Shahi" written by a man whose family had relations with Sher Shah Suri in 16th century. Kakars were also present in Sher Shah's administration and army but no where it is mentioned that they were related to Surs.