Where Kabul and Afghanistan two separate nations in medieval times?

[Brown Skinned Savage]

[MENTION=3658]pashtanajan[/MENTION]

That''s what I've been gathering; there's strong evidence which suggest certain Turkic clans who were racially Caucasian but culturally Turkic transitioned into becoming Pashtunized

Oddly enough, there's a book called The Kandahar Viceroy ( I maybe misrendering the title) which calls Mirwais Hotaki an Uzbek.....although not directly related, it seems rather peculiar.

[pashtanajan]

[MENTION=3658]pashtanajan[/MENTION]

That''s what I've been gathering; there's strong evidence which suggest certain Turkic clans who were racially Caucasian but culturally Turkic transitioned into becoming Pashtunized

Oddly enough, there's a book called The Kandahar Viceroy ( I maybe misrendering the title) which calls Mirwais Hotaki an Uzbek.....although not directly related, it seems rather peculiar.

Interesting. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll be sure to read it

[pashtanajan]

[MENTION=3658]pashtanajan[/MENTION]

I've known some Turkic people who claim that Mirwais had some Turkish ancestry. Most likely, his ancestry is a mix of predominantly Iranic with some Turkish. I'm sure many present day Pashtuns have the same ancestral background. Genetic testings show that even Kandahari Pashtuns have some East Asian ancestry (1 to 4 or 5 percent). Meanwhile, some northern Pashtuns have a greater East Asian admixture. From the genetic testing done on Pashtuns from Kunduz, one Pashtun is said to be an "outlier" though I doubt it. He has, I believe, around 15% or greater East Asian ancestry (I don't exactly remember) and looks like a heavily west asian influenced Uzbek or slightly east asian influenced Tajik on a genetic level, but when you peer closer, he stacks up with a lot of Pashtuns! It's not surprising, seeing how we're a Central Asian or South-Central Asian ethnicity.

[Kushan Prince]

The Ghilzai were most likely once Turks. They are an Iranic-Turkic hybrid. Many groups amalgamated into the Pashtun ethnicity. I know that my mother's side most likely has some Kalash/Nuristani roots, as they have intermarried within them extensively and follow many of their customs. This makes sense, as there are also some Dardic/Turkic words in the Pashto language.

My paternal line was already settled in Kunduz in the 1940s. They came to Kunduz a long time ago. They don't even remember the province they were originally from. My great-great-great-great grandfather (four generations back) was in Kunduz before Rahman was even existent in the world. My family doesn't know the name of their ancestor 5 generations back, but each generation that we know of was born and raised in Kunduz. Not all pashtuns in the north moved there forcefully. I know that my ancestors were there even before Rahman's birth.

Well i don't know your family so you could be right, but most Pashtuns in the north settled recently. I know that Ahmad Shah Durrani sent some Pashtun tribes to the north as form of punishment while other theories are that they were settled there so they could keep an eye on the Soviets near the border. Either way they are settled.

As for Ghilzai's being turks, they are not cased closed. Genetics have proven their connections to turks inconclusive and that majority are R1a, an iranian haplogroup. There was a Pashtun who was ghilzai on this anthroforum who tested R1a postiive and showed 66% central asian on his ancestry results. Needles to say, they are iranian and do not resemble turks in the slightest bit. The Pashtun with east asian could have absorbed it from hazaras nearby thanks to the rapes by genghis khan and his army.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

@ Pashtanajan

I think some people ( not referring to you) don't understand the difference of being Linguistically/Ethno-culturally Turk and Genetically "Turk".

But even if the example were true a Ghilzai having r1a at 66%, this wouldn't mean all Ghilzais are such Ghilzais themselves absorbed other tribes into their tribe eventually. Furthermore What of the other 44%? The presence of R1a is not a claim of "purity' but that These groups of people mixed together and intermarried.

with that said It's been clearly demonstrated that Turkic speaking peoples mixed with Indo-Iranians leading to many Indo-Iranians to adopt a Turkic language.

Anyone that says "case closed" without correctly understanding what's being meant here is in denial.

[Smarty]

Khiljis of the history are considered Turks nowadays but it seems they were of different race . Contemporary author Ziau-d-din Barani states that,' Jalal-d-din came of a race different from the Turks ,' and that by the death of Sultan Kaikoabad , 'The Turks lost the empire'.

Mr.Elliott's History of India (Vol.III page 34) has given the translation of a portion of Tarikh i Feroz Shahi , which runs as follows -

"At the same time Jalaludin, who was Ariz-i-Mamalik , had gone to Baharpur , attended by a body of his relations and friends. Here he held a muster and inspection of the forces. He came of a race different from that of the Turks ; so he had no confidence in them , nor would the Turks own him as belonging to the member of his friends".

Khushal Khan Khattak in his Dewan of poetry also calls the Khaljis as Ghiljis Afghans. See Abdul Qayum Zahid Mashwani, ed. Da Khushal Khan Khattak Kulyat[Pashto] (Kabul: Danish Publications, 2013), p. 1302.

[Kushan Prince]

And humans are descended from Adam. Or they from Africa if westerns are to be believed. When i say Pashtun or Afghan in the history, i mean the single ethnic identity or qaum, not their various ancestors and contributors to their genes. Greeks also have mentioned Afridis (Aparutai), Yusufzais (Aspasioi of alexander), shetaks ( Sattagudai) and Dawis (Dadikai).....they are mentioned as tribes of down south, not North.
Start considering history of pashtuns from the point where they were called or mentioned as Afghans

This is according your own faulty logic right? Afridis and Ispazai's are from the east not south, even Khattak's originally came from Kunar. I don't see how thats "down south."

And humans are descended from Adam. Or they from Africa if westerns are to be believed.

A blatant comment when you know your losing the argument.

Start considering history of Pashtuns from the point where they were called or mentioned as Afghans

Expect, the term Afghan has been confusing ever since it first came into existence. Ibn Battuta, mentioned Afghans as "Persians" and not Pashtuns while Babur mentioned both Afghans and Pashtuns separately when talking about the demographics of Kabulistan in his memoir. Clearly the word "Afghan" is very confusing.

[Afghanfootball]

This is according your own faulty logic right? Afridis and Ispazai's are from the east not south, even Khattak's originally came from Kunar. I don't see how thats "down south."



A blatant comment when you know your losing the argument.



Expect, the term Afghan has been confusing ever since it first came into existence. Ibn Battuta, mentioned Afghans as "Persians" and not Pashtuns while Babur mentioned both Afghans and Pashtuns separately when talking about the demographics of Kabulistan in his memoir. Clearly the word "Afghan" is very confusing.

I agree its very confusing but Babur doesnt mention Pashtuns in his memoir he only mentions Afghans, and says the language Afghani. Also I have read on a article on abdul hai habibi that the yusefzai and durranis may have been persian nobles.

[Kushan Prince]

I agree its very confusing but Babur doesnt mention Pashtuns in his memoir he only mentions Afghans, and says the language Afghani. Also I have read on a article on abdul hai habibi that the yusefzai and durranis may have been persian nobles.

Your right, my bad. Baburnama makes no distinctions between Afghans and Pashtuns but Smarty can't grasp that Pashtun history pre-dates Islam and doesn't start with when they were called "Afghan."

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I Wish people would show a clear and solid piece of evidence of Pashtuns as a clearly identified ethnic group prior to the 10th Century. How come we don't have any clear proof or evidence other than some weak attempts at associating tangentially similar sounding words lik "Pakht" and "paktuye" with Pakhtun

By the way, there is suggestion from linguists that Pashto evolved from a soft dialect with "sh" to a hard dialect "Kh" so ancient references like "Paktuye" would make no sense.

[Toramana]

I Wish people would show a clear and solid piece of evidence of Pashtuns as a clearly identified ethnic group prior to the 10th Century. How come we don't have any clear proof or evidence other than some weak attempts at associating tangentially similar sounding words lik "Pakht" and "paktuye" with Pakhtun

By the way, there is suggestion from linguists that Pashto revolved from a soft dialect with "sh" to a hard dialect "Kh" so ancient references like "Paktuye" would make no sense.

So you are RTR, i.e., Revulsion Through Ranting. And you ran away because you couldn't face me in mathematics (remember when I asked you the question and you just disappeared) and discussions. And now you have re-surfaced with a different id.

What a baighairat.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I seriously doubt I'd run away from you on any subject. You seem to be an idiot, but hey ...keep guessing

Anyways; anyone here that wants to seriously tackle my query, I just want serious responses; not South Asians with inferiority complexes or Nationalists in denial.

[Bengal_Tiger]

So you are RTR, i.e., Revulsion Through Ranting. And you ran away because you couldn't face me in mathematics (remember when I asked you the question and you just disappeared) and discussions. And now you have re-surfaced with a different id.

What a baighairat.

Mahmood al-Yemeni (RetardationThroughUnreason a.k.a. ScimitarXEdge) was banned, a life time ban in fact, ask [MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION].

Rather than running away the Yemeni Arab just can't get enough of this forum and has now created a new ID to pester everyone with his drivel, which everyone is now familiar with and has heard a million times (Pashtunwali is bad, Pashtuns are a recent amalgamation of different ethnic groups etc)

He isn't coming out with anything new and the Yemeni Arab is just repeating the same ranting and nonsense he's been coming out with for years on this forum.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Anyway I have the Arab on ignore and just hope he leaves people alone including refraining from bullying and harassing people and insulting their families.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Not sure why this creepy Bangladeshi guy keeps following me around whenever someone talks to me; I have them ignored but he should focus on why his country is one giant brothel and sex tourist destination and leave Pashtun matters for Pashtuns

[Kushan Prince]

Mahmood al-Yemeni (RetardationThroughUnreason a.k.a. ScimitarXEdge) was banned, a life time ban in fact, ask [MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION].

Rather than running away the Yemeni Arab just can't get enough of this forum and has now created a new ID to pester everyone with his drivel, which everyone is now familiar with and has heard a million times (Pashtunwali is bad, Pashtuns are a recent amalgamation of different ethnic groups etc)

He isn't coming out with anything new and the Yemeni Arab is just repeating the same ranting and nonsense he's been coming out with for years on this forum.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Anyway I have the Arab on ignore and just hope he leaves people alone including refraining from bullying and harassing people and insulting their families.

I have this troll on ignore myself since i have no interest in seeing his trash comments full of nonsense and swearing. In fact, i had him banned when i reported one of his comments to the Admin and he has been after me ever since.I think if everyone ignores him, he could disappear.