Where Kabul and Afghanistan two separate nations in medieval times?

[Afghanfootball]

I always thought that everything inbetween India and Persia (Khorasan Region made up Afghanistan in medieval time but this quote from Babur says otherwise.

"The road from Khorasān leads by way of Kandahār. It is a straight level road, and does not go through any hill-passes... In the country of Kābul there are many and various tribes. Its valleys and plains are inhabited by Tūrks, Aimāks, and Arabs. In the city and the greater part of the villages, the population consists of Tājiks* (Sarts). Many other of the villages and districts are occupied by Pashāis, Parāchis, Tājiks, Berekis, and Afghans. In the hill-country to the west, reside the Hazāras and Nukderis. Among the Hazāra and Nukderi tribes, there are some who speak the Moghul language. In the hill-country to the north-east lies Kaferistān, such as Kattor and Gebrek. To the south is Afghanistān.[18]

Also this next quote basically says that kabulis and Afghans are 2 different people!!!

"The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!"[19]

Can someone please explain this to me????

[khushal]

The northern borders of Afghanistan was made by A. S. Abdali who conquered those areas when he was commander of Nadir Shah's forces. The inhabitants of the northern areas were Tajiks. Pashtuns in Kunduz are migrants. Kabul, like most big cities was and still is pretty diverse. Back in the day, the area was managed by city states and each city state ruler would pledge allegiance to an emperor if there was one.

Some people falsely believe that Tajiks are migrants to northern Afghanistan. Some are migrants from from Soviet invasion of their land like A. H. Masud's family but the vast majority are indigenous. Uzbeks(recent migrants) and Hazaras(migrants from Mongol invasion) on the other hand are migrants and not indigenous.

[kanishka]

Afghanistan - Pashtun people. Afghanistan meant where Pashtun people lived, well roughly, and corresponds to Southern Afghanistan, the Bolan pass region, FATA and especially Kandahar.... Northern Afghanistan today is not Afghan because there are less Pashtuns, but historical rumors do say Pashtuns used to live in much northern areas before being pushed south....
KAbul - a major city that had Hindko people and Tajik people too. Pashtuns ruled Kabul when they won AFG in 1700's and made it their capital... Before 1700's, Kabul was a city state or a stronghold for many Arab, Turkic or Persian empires... and used to have Hindu and Buddhist people at a much earlier time, those Hindus/Buddhists were probably related to or ancestors of Hindkowan people today... No Hindkowan is buddhist but very few are still Hindu...

[Kushan Prince]

The northern borders of Afghanistan was made by A. S. Abdali who conquered those areas when he was commander of Nadir Shah's forces. The inhabitants of the northern areas were Tajiks. Pashtuns in Kunduz are migrants. Kabul, like most big cities was and still is pretty diverse. Back in the day, the area was managed by city states and each city state ruler would pledge allegiance to an emperor if there was one.

Some people falsely believe that Tajiks are migrants to northern Afghanistan. Some are migrants from from Soviet invasion of their land like A. H. Masud's family but the vast majority are indigenous. Uzbeks(recent migrants) and Hazaras(migrants from Mongol invasion) on the other hand are migrants and not indigenous.

No they weren't. Tajiks were never native to northern Afghanistan or any area because they are not an ethnic group but a linguistic group who speak the same language. The north is multi-ethnic for a reason where one ethnic group does not dominate the other. Tajiks like uzbeks all came during the turkic and soviet era when their lands were dominated and invaded. If you think Pashtuns originate from the south then i am sorry to say that you are wrong since Pashto has its believed origins from Balkh. Avestan came from the north and Pashto is a direct descendant of Avestan according to linguists.

The Yousafzai tribe believe they originally came from the north and swat where they live is very lost to the north. Anything south of the Oxus river is Pashtun land khushal, i expected you to know this.

[Kushan Prince]

Afghanistan - Pashtun people. Afghanistan meant where Pashtun people lived, well roughly, and corresponds to Southern Afghanistan, the Bolan pass region, FATA and especially Kandahar.... Northern Afghanistan today is not Afghan because there are less Pashtuns, but historical rumors do say Pashtuns used to live in much northern areas before being pushed south....
KAbul - a major city that had Hindko people and Tajik people too. Pashtuns ruled Kabul when they won AFG in 1700's and made it their capital... Before 1700's, Kabul was a city state or a stronghold for many Arab, Turkic or Persian empires... and used to have Hindu and Buddhist people at a much earlier time, those Hindus/Buddhists were probably related to or ancestors of Hindkowan people today... No Hindkowan is buddhist but very few are still Hindu...

The kuchi people believe they were the original inhabitants of the north before being pushed down permanently south. They migrate yearly to areas like Baghdis and Balkh and Pashtuns are suprisngly the only ones that know how to use the northern lands correctly compared to other ethnic groups. Pashtuns are also heavily wealthy in the north due to them owning tons of land, This is no coincidence that Pashtuns know that the northern lands are more fertile and better suited for farming.

[Smarty]

Koh Sulieman range was known as Afghanistan, the true Afghanistan.......Durranis themselves spread westward towards kandahar from Sulieman mountains range in 14th century. In the times of Babur's uncle and in his own times, Khashi Pashtun tribes (Yousafzais, Gagianis , ghoria khels etc), who had settled in and around kabul, nangarhar etc, were expelled by Mughals and they settled in present day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and upper agencies of FATA (Bajaur, Mohmand). The historical Afghanistan was region south of ghazni to Sibi (Balochistan). At one time Pashtun tribes like nahars and kungs were even living in the present day region of marri-bugti-DGkhan untill expelled by Balochs.....thats why alberuni mentioned Afghanistan extending upto the border of sindh.

[Kushan Prince]

Koh Sulieman range was known as Afghanistan, the true Afghanistan.......Durranis themselves spread westward towards kandahar from Sulieman mountains range in 14th century. In the times of Babur's uncle and in his own times, Khashi Pashtun tribes (Yousafzais, Gagianis , ghoria khels etc), who had settled in and around kabul, nangarhar etc, were expelled by Mughals and they settled in present day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and upper agencies of FATA (Bajaur, Mohmand). The historical Afghanistan was region south of ghazni to Sibi (Balochistan). At one time Pashtun tribes like nahars and kungs were even living in the present day region of marri-bugti-DGkhan untill expelled by Balochs.....thats why alberuni mentioned Afghanistan extending upto the border of sindh.

Proof?

The only tribes native to the south are Durrani and Ghilzai. Most Pashtun tribes do not come from the south, they were once spread out all over Afghanistan before countless invasions. Your theory is something a tajik would say.

No offense.

[truthsayer]

Proof?

The only tribes native to the south are Durrani and Ghilzai. Most Pashtun tribes do not come from the south, they were once spread out all over Afghanistan before countless invasions. Your theory is something a tajik would say.

No offense.

both of the other guys are right, his theory is essentially fact and yours is just mindless rambling based off of a comment from wikipedia saying pashto is related to avestan, the proof to Smarty's comment is literally common sense and a history book, lol.

pashtuns were always in the areas they are today (aside from internal colonization policies which results in them being found in the north in traditionally and historically non pashtun areas) if not a lesser territory - it's why the overwhelming majority of pashtuns, being south asians, reside in pakistan, it's why you can find remnants of old pashtun history in places like pakistan and the south and south east of afghanistan but virtually none in non-pashtun areas.

[Kushan Prince]

both of the other guys are right, his theory is essentially fact and yours is just mindless rambling based off of a comment from wikipedia saying pashto is related to avestan

pashtuns were always in the areas they are today (aside from internal colonization policies which results in them being found in the north in traditionally and historically non pashtun areas) if not a lesser territory - it's why the overwhelming majority of pashtuns, being south asians, reside in pakistan.

And a wild random Tajik appears!

[truthsayer]

And a wild random Tajik appears!

Quite the assumption you've got going there. Ze pashtun yem, aga tasu pashtun ye zma sara pe pashto ke amda woss khabara woka.

Two can play at this game. I'm just a meager lurker but I have to say I sympathize with the 25tajik75pashtun guy in the one commonality that you spew nonsense.

[truthsayer]

Dear friend.
Zadran is afghan and no need certificate for his origin from kushan or others.
It dose,nt matter how he looks like.
Kushan too is afghan.
Kindly no personal attack.

[gadoonwal]

Pashtuns are southerners.
They are recent in north.
Yousufzais migrated from south to Kabul and then to Peshawar valley.

[Kushan Prince]

This whole thread is wrong. Everybody here seems to have their own opinions on where Pashtuns come from yet nobody is an ACTUAL scholar or providing actual proof. You people also seem to be making a big mistake by correlating modern day populations to current regions then to the past which is wrong. That's as foolish as saying that europeans are native to America because they are the majority population there.

Considering the fact that Pashtuns have no written history, its going to be hard to pin point a proper place of origin for them not to mention the fact that Pashtuns are a mixture of many different people. Many tribes were not originally Pashtun in the past, like the Karlani Pashtuns who became Pashtunized and adopted Pashto language and culture. Even the Wazirwola dialect is very hard to understand and there is an impression among some Pashtuns that it is not even originally pashto.

[Afghanfootball]

This whole thread is wrong. Everybody here seems to have their own opinions on where Pashtuns come from yet nobody is an ACTUAL scholar or providing actual proof. You people also seem to be making a big mistake by correlating modern day populations to current regions then to the past which is wrong. That's as foolish as saying that europeans are native to America because they are the majority population there.

Considering the fact that Pashtuns have no written history, its going to be hard to pin point a proper place of origin for them not to mention the fact that Pashtuns are a mixture of many different people. Many tribes were not originally Pashtun in the past, like the Karlani Pashtuns who became Pashtunized and adopted Pashto language and culture. Even the Wazirwola dialect is very hard to understand and there is an impression among some Pashtuns that it is not even originally pashto.

i agree we shouldnt compare modrn populations to past ones. However i did put quotes saying that was pashtun homeland however idk if they are legit since i took them from wiki

[pashtanajan]

I actually think that some Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan such as Kunduz could have some Tajik ancestry. For example, celebrating Nowruz is done in family that hails from Northern Afghanistan with as much festivity as it is done in Tajik households. I also have noticed how some of my relatives give a Eurasian vibe like many Tajiks do. I wonder why. My family's ancestry is Sarbani, so they are not part of the Ghilzai kuchis that were relocated to Northern Kunduz during the past. They've been land owners for a very long time. From what they know, they don't remember when they came to Kunduz, and they don't know which province they used to live in previous to their settlement in Kunduz. They've been there for a while and are on good terms with the neighbouring ethnicities to the point where one of uncles is now the "Malik" of the Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkmen of his area. Most people in my family speak Pashto and Dari bilingually, but I also have many relatives that only speak Dari. My family also isn't very endogamous like other Pashtun families. I have many relatives from other ethnic groups. Point being, I think many families in Afghanistan could have been "pashtunized" somehow through the sands of time, the same way many Pashtuns have been "persianized". Who is to say that some of the Pashtuns in the north aren't foreigners but were once Tajiks who have now become Pashtun? There are some Tajik families in Laghman for example that speak Pashto but consider themselves Tajik. Surely, after a few centuries, they too will consider themselves Pashtun. Nonetheless, this phenomenon could also be due to the fact that many Pashtun men in my family (and in some other families in the north) took Tajik females for wives, and these females started incorporating many Tajik traditions into my family's overall values and traditions.

I think my family is a Pashtun-Tajik hybrid on my father's side and a Pashtun-Nuristani hybrid on my mother's side, and they ended up considering themselves Pashtun due to patriarchal reasons, i.e. the belief that you are only your father's ancestry. Likewise, I think many Pashtuns, especially those out of Loy Kandahar who now reside in the North or even in Laghman, Kunar and Nangarhar have some Tajik and Nuristani ancestry (Nuristani, especially, in the case of the latter).

P.S: An interesting thing to note is that one Pashtun from Kunduz has an admixture result that is starkly similar to a Tajik admixture result rather than what would be expected of a Pashtun result. Similarly, I find it interesting that Tajiks and Pashtuns share R1a and how this R1a haplogroup is even found in small numbers amongst the Hazaras. Clearly this shows that some intermixing has been happening for a while, and it also shows that some Tajiks and Pashtuns have a common recent ancestor, meaning that both Tajiks and Pashtuns most likely hail from the same region, but have now settled in different regions!