What are the origins of Kakar's in India?

[Kushan Prince]

We all know there is a Pashtun tribe by the same name but there is also a punjabi gotra clan who carry "kakar" as a surname. So what exactly are their origins? are they possible pre-islamic remnants of the actual afghan tribe that migrated to india?

I'm asking this because of this quote i found on a Pashtun blog which made me a bit sceptical.

In india some Kakar tribesmen converted to hinduism but many remain muslims, although some intellectuals say that these hindu Kakar are the slaves of Kakar Afghans who ruled India for a long time so they adopted the surname of Kakar.

http://historyofpathans.blogspot.ca/2013/09/history-of-kakar-and-kakazai-tribe.html

[tor_khan]

See this. Lady being interviewed claims to be a Hindu Kakar:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=35765

[gadoonwal]

We all know there is a Pashtun tribe by the same name but there is also a punjabi gotra clan who carry "kakar" as a surname. So what exactly are their origins? are they possible pre-islamic remnants of the actual afghan tribe that migrated to india?

I'm asking this because of this quote i found on a Pashtun blog which made me a bit sceptical.



http://historyofpathans.blogspot.ca/...zai-tribe.html

kindly do,nt follow these self created history on net by some people.
Pashtun kakar tribe is different then the indain one.
There is another famous group in punjab and india called ,,kokar,,,.
Gokar is also one of the muslim group in india and pakistan.
The indain kokar fought gaznavids,lodhis etc.
Later they converted to islam.
They got nothing to do with pashtun kakar.
The pashtun kakar iteslf is pashtu word,,kakar or kakary,,the head.
There is another pashtu word for kakar is ,,kakard.
Kakar belong to the pashtun/afghan clan ,,,gharghasht,,.
Kakar like other pashtun originated from the mountain of sulaiman.
The region from sulaim mountain to zjob is the birth place of pashtuns.
Kakar tribe members also lived in the Ghor during the time of muhd Ghori.
Malak yar Gharsheen was pashtun poet from Gor and was kakar.
The village ,,kajran,,in ghor was the home of kakaran or kakar.
Some historain think Ghor is the birth place of pashtun nation.
The kakazai is another tribe.
Now the Great Sher Shah Suri was belong to the Ghilzai sub tribe suri.
He was not kakar or so.
His grandfather originally came from Ghor.
It is also wrong to say he was born in ,,patna,,india or bihar.
Sher shah ,s real name was fareed khan.
Due to family conflict in his native land his family decided to move to india.
Sher khan was born on his way to india somewhere near ,,khair abad,,village on the west bank of indus river.
So he was born in Rohistan the land of pakhtuns.
His family settled in Bihar.

[gadoonwal]

See this. Lady being interviewed claims to be a Hindu Kakar:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=35765

Tor khan lala,,
She is not pashtun kakar.
Many Hindo lived in the land of kakar.
They speak the same dielect and wear the same.
As you know we had many hindoes but most of them left.
In india there are many pashtunized hindoes.
This Hindo lady can not prove what sub-tribe or khail of kakar she is belong to.
We have a tribal system and we all know eachothers by our khails and ,tal,,.

[tor_khan]

Tor khan lala,,
She is not pashtun kakar.
Many Hindo lived in the land of kakar.
They speak the same dielect and wear the same.
As you know we had many hindoes but most of them left.
In india there are many pashtunized hindoes.
This Hindo lady can not prove what sub-tribe or khail of kakar she is belong to.
We have a tribal system and we all know eachothers by our khails and ,tal,,.

Stasu khabara bekhee manam. Aslan pa video kee agha khaza khpal zaan ta Kakar wayee. Maybe because her people lived amongst Kakars. Dasee makhkee pa PF ki hom yow gharey wo chi hom Hindu wo au zaan ta ba Kakar wey.

I put the link in, in response to the earlier question.

And whilst I agree that we recognise Pukhtuns through their khail, many individuals/tribes have all but abandoned their Pashtunwali, language/culture. I see this all the time with people who claim being Pashtun based on shajra/father's background. Da Karachai nim pa nim Hindustani Mahajaran ba dagha khabara kawee kho bya nor da Pukhtano hits qadar na kawee. Dasee ka yow Hindo ya Sikh we chi da Pukhto izzat / khidmat kawee no agha insaan za Pakhtano pa shaan gannam.

[gadoonwal]

Stasu khabara bekhee manam. Aslan pa video kee agha khaza khpal zaan ta Kakar wayee. Maybe because her people lived amongst Kakars. Dasee makhkee pa PF ki hom yow gharey wo chi hom Hindu wo au zaan ta ba Kakar wey.

I put the link in, in response to the earlier question.

And whilst I agree that we recognise Pukhtuns through their khail, many individuals/tribes have all but abandoned their Pashtunwali, language/culture. I see this all the time with people who claim being Pashtun based on shajra/father's background. Da Karachai nim pa nim Hindustani Mahajaran ba dagha khabara kawee kho bya nor da Pukhtano hits qadar na kawee. Dasee ka yow Hindo ya Sikh we chi da Pukhto izzat / khidmat kawee no agha insaan za Pakhtano pa shaan gannam.

khabara de sama da tor khan la.
der hindwaan aw seekan dasay shtay chi pakhtu jabay aw pakhtanu tha dranaway aw ikhteram warky aw zaan pukhtaana boli/wy.
za hum dwee da pakhtanu pa shaan gannam.
pa bangkok ki da mardan yaw hindo woo chi pa pakhtunwaly aw pakhtu ki da pakhtanu na hum ter woo.wos mar day.
manana

[Kushan Prince]

kindly do,nt follow these self created history on net by some people.
Pashtun kakar tribe is different then the indain one.
There is another famous group in punjab and india called ,,kokar,,,.
Gokar is also one of the muslim group in india and pakistan.
The indain kokar fought gaznavids,lodhis etc.
Later they converted to islam.
They got nothing to do with pashtun kakar.
The pashtun kakar iteslf is pashtu word,,kakar or kakary,,the head.
There is another pashtu word for kakar is ,,kakard.
Kakar belong to the pashtun/afghan clan ,,,gharghasht,,.
Kakar like other pashtun originated from the mountain of sulaiman.
The region from sulaim mountain to zjob is the birth place of pashtuns.
Kakar tribe members also lived in the Ghor during the time of muhd Ghori.
Malak yar Gharsheen was pashtun poet from Gor and was kakar.
The village ,,kajran,,in ghor was the home of kakaran or kakar.
Some historain think Ghor is the birth place of pashtun nation.
The kakazai is another tribe.
Now the Great Sher Shah Suri was belong to the Ghilzai sub tribe suri.
He was not kakar or so.
His grandfather originally came from Ghor.
It is also wrong to say he was born in ,,patna,,india or bihar.
Sher shah ,s real name was fareed khan.
Due to family conflict in his native land his family decided to move to india.
Sher khan was born on his way to india somewhere near ,,khair abad,,village on the west bank of indus river.
So he was born in Rohistan the land of pakhtuns.
His family settled in Bihar.

Hi Gadoon, thanks for the informative post even though i knew all of this. I may not agree with all of it but it makes sense, also i believe Sher Shah Suri was a Kakar more ore less. I believe the name suri was more of a title then a tribe name since it is found in other languages as well.

In your opinion, how do you think indians got the name Kakar? is it really a pashto name or Sanskrit. If it is of Sanskrit origin then it would make sense on they have it as well.

[gadoonwal]

Hi Gadoon, thanks for the informative post even though i knew all of this. I may not agree with all of it but it makes sense, also i believe Sher Shah Suri was a Kakar more ore less. I believe the name suri was more of a title then a tribe name since it is found in other languages as well.

In your opinion, how do you think indians got the name Kakar? is it really a pashto name or Sanskrit. If it is of Sanskrit origin then it would make sense on they have it as well.

Sher shah was suri pashtun and even today in westren herat provinve minor papulation of zoris exist.They are part of Ghilzais.Zori and suri is same.
The Great muhd suri moved from his native Ghor to takhtai sulaiman so as many of his tribesmen.Read about muhd suri .
Even today pashtuns lives in southren part of Ghor but they speak farsi.

The indain kokar and ghakar is different then pashtun kakar.
These are two different words.
The kakard is pashtu word so as kakar.I explain these words in my previous post.
I do,nt know about the Sanskrit one.

[Smarty]

Hi Gadoon, thanks for the informative post even though i knew all of this. I may not agree with all of it but it makes sense, also i believe Sher Shah Suri was a Kakar more ore less. I believe the name suri was more of a title then a tribe name since it is found in other languages as well.

In your opinion, how do you think indians got the name Kakar? is it really a pashto name or Sanskrit. If it is of Sanskrit origin then it would make sense on they have it as well.

Suris have nothing to do with kakars. They are related to ghilzai, lodhi, niazi, lohani etc

[Kushan Prince]

Suris have nothing to do with kakars. They are related to ghilzai, lodhi, niazi, lohani etc

I know that, in my last post i was trying to say sher shah suri was actually a kakar and not a suri.