New Study on Afghanistan's Genetics

[Toramana]

Chu River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Chu (or Chui or Chuy) (Kyrgyz: Чүй, Kazakh: Шу, Russian: Чу) is a river in northern Kyrgyzstan and southern Kazakhstan. At approximately 663 miles (1067 km[1]) in length, it is one of the longest rivers in Kyrgyzstan.

Chuy Oblast, the northernmost and most populous administrative region of Kyrgyzstan, is named after the river; so are the Chuy Avenue, the main street of Bishkek, and the city of Shu in Kazakhstan's Zhambyl Province.

The area of this river was originally home to the Iranian Sughds who spoke Soghdian, an East Iranian language.[2]

[Toramana]

"a) Sakas from the north (perhaps coming from Khotan) took the 'Pamir routes' through the Karakorum Mountains to Swat and Gandhara;

b) Sakas crossed the Hindu Kush under pressure from the Yuezhi to mountain valleys of northeastern Afghanistan;
"

http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/exhibit/sakas/essay.html

[Kushan Prince]

That's not exactly accurate Kushan.

I'm 6/8 Ghilzai Pashtun, 1/8 Durrani Pashtun, and 1/8th Jaghuri Hazara. My family is huge though over 25 aunts and uncles, and there are people in my family who have married into other ethnic groups.

Kudos to you then!

FYI, an intelligent person wouldn't give a crap about what type of women his ancestors mated with or which kind he preferred. It doesn't matter who we were back then, what matters now is who we are today and that is Pashtuns and IMO these genetic tests are worthless and don't really prove anything and cause nothing but confusions.

Which is why I believe Pashtuns who take too much interest in this stuff suffer from some sort of inferioty complex and are in doubt if they actually are Pashtun or someone else. I'm seeing this in this forum a lot sadly.

[Midnight_Sun]

Kushan, I don't think you understand the meaning of inferiority complex. IC is: "lack of self-worth, a doubt and uncertainty, and feeling of not measuring up to society's standards. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme antisocial behavior." Click here for more info on understanding Inferiority Complex

What the article's conclusion is saying is that the Hindu Kush region may not be the source of variation, but a confluence where they converged.

From the results, it again comes to the same conclusions as the previous article on Afghanistan's Genetics had concluded about ancestral Y-DNA, plus new information that had never before been found. It also delves for the first time in maternal ancestry of Afghans, which was really groundbreaking. On top of that, it compared the autosomal DNA of Afghans with that of neighboring populations, and found some not so surprising and also some very surprising finds.

Now for criticisms, you can find some online, some say the amount of autosomal data was small, and that both coding regions of mtDNA were not acquired which could have allowed for more proper classification of Afghan populations. There is hope though that mtDNA classification can be inferred from the data. There are efforts underway now to get the raw data (HVR and SNP data) from the mtDNA analysis for inferred subclade classification.

[Midnight_Sun]

I think Pashtun people are unique and deserve a classification of their own, rather than tracing their history on others.

Interesting you say that as there have been Y-DNA analysis of Pashtuns from South and North of the Hindu Kush. They found them to be almost identical. I believe I spoke about this study a year or two ago. There has been one or two studies of Pakistani genetics, and Pashtuns (Pathan) was analyzed. Lots of the comparison analysis done with this current study uses updated data from Pakistan. They found that Pashtuns of Pakistan are nearly identical or show nearly identical patterns of paternal descent with those of Afghanistan. Marked with high 50%+ R1a, with smaller frequencies of L, G2, J1, J2, and Q.

Also recently, there was a paternal study of the Yusufzai Pashtuns, and from the data I was able to infer high frequencies 50%+ of R1a as well.

Autosomal information have now been acquired (with this study) for Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that data seems to match quite closely with each other. More autosomal analysis would definitely be useful!

I think a more detailed study evaluating the descendancy of the major Pashtun groups by tribe would be very valuable for genealogical, historical, and geographical correlation studies.

[Midnight_Sun]

I can have one explanation for the high R1a frequency in Kirghiz and Pashtuns. It is said that Sakas Iranian tribes before establishing a kingdom at Khotan were living in the valley of Chu and Ally from where they were displaced by the Yeuzhi expansion. This is precisely the place where later Kirghiz ethnicity emerged and where today they live.

Then again Sakas were displaced from Khotan and ultimately they ended up in Sakistan. There may be a link there. Pashto is close to Khotanese Saka.

Well the Sakas first displaced the declining Hellenic kingdoms, then the Yue-Chi (Tocharians) followed, after being displaced by the Greater Huns. They were then displaced by the Kitharites and finally by the Hephtalites. All of these tribes seemed to come from similar regions.

[Kushan Prince]

Interesting you say that as there have been Y-DNA analysis of Pashtuns from South and North of the Hindu Kush. They found them to be almost identical. I believe I spoke about this study a year or two ago. There has been one or two studies of Pakistani genetics, and Pashtuns (Pathan) was analyzed. Lots of the comparison analysis done with this current study uses updated data from Pakistan. They found that Pashtuns of Pakistan are nearly identical or show nearly identical patterns of paternal descent with those of Afghanistan. Marked with high 50%+ R1a, with smaller frequencies of L, G2, J1, J2, and Q.

Also recently, there was a paternal study of the Yusufzai Pashtuns, and from the data I was able to infer high frequencies 50%+ of R1a as well.

Autosomal information have now been acquired (with this study) for Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that data seems to match quite closely with each other. More autosomal analysis would definitely be useful!

I think a more detailed study evaluating the descendancy of the major Pashtun groups by tribe would be very valuable for genealogical, historical, and geographical correlation studies.

No DUH! They are the same people, most Pashtuns in the north are very recent and were settled by Amullah Khan not to long ago.

[Midnight_Sun]

The presence of G2c in Pashtuns can also be explained likewise. The Ashkenazi Jews have partly R1a and partly G2c just like Pashtuns. It is said they had Turkic-Iranic ancestry. They established a Jewish kingdom in early medieval ages in north of Balck Sea. Their kingdom disintegrated later and they were dispersed towards Eastern Rurope to later to emerge as Ashkenazi.

It is possible that part of the Iranian tribes moved towards Caucuses under Turkic-Mangolian pressure to later emerge as Khazars and then Ashkenazis. Part of them moved southwards towards Central Asia and later ended up as Pashtuns.

There has also G2c detected in Burusho. The explanation may be some of the Sakas while moving south into Afghanistan from Khotan crossed the Pamirs on the way mingling with Burushus.

I think the link is even older than that. Possibly from the Red or White Huns and other confederations that were dispersed or absorbed with the arrival of the Turks.

[Midnight_Sun]

No DUH! They are the same people, most Pashtuns in the north are very recent and were settled by Amullah Khan not to long ago.

Don't be childish, having research to back up claims is a lot better than simple assumptions.

Pashtuns had been migrating to the North way before Amanullah Khan settled them. There were migrations up there during the reign of Ahmad Shah Abdali and during the fights between his descendants leading up to Abdur Rahman Khan.

Regardless, the research was to see exactly how close they were, and what differences there were between them. From what I remember, the Northern Pashtuns were more homogeneous than the Southern Pashtuns. Why? The article states that the Hindu Kush mountains prevents this. More research could always help.

[Kushan Prince]

Don't be childish, having research to back up claims is a lot better than simple assumptions.

Pashtuns had been migrating to the North way before Amanullah Khan settled them. There were migrations up there during the reign of Ahmad Shah Abdali and during the fights between his descendants leading up to Abdur Rahman Khan.

Regardless, the research was to see exactly how close they were, and what differences there were between them. From what I remember, the Northern Pashtuns were more homogeneous than the Southern Pashtuns. Why? The article states that the Hindu Kush mountains prevents this. More research could always help.

Err OK whatever you say. So are you saying northern pashtuns are more purer then the southern ones? Makes sense since they are surrounded by non pashtuns forcing them to marry within their own.

And these claims are true and everyone knows that Pashtuns migrated into large numbers into the north when Abdur Rahman settled them like my family.

[Midnight_Sun]

Err OK whatever you say. So are you saying northern pashtuns are more purer then the southern ones? Makes sense since they are surrounded by non pashtuns forcing them to marry within their own.

And these claims are true and everyone knows that Pashtuns migrated into large numbers into the north when Abdur Rahman settled them like my family.

I'm not talking about purity, the R1a they tested is over 1,000 yrs old, so it could have come from multiple progenitors of populations. It does not necessarily mean they are more 'pure.'

[Apollyon]

I'm not talking about purity, the R1a they tested is over 1,000 yrs old, so it could have come from multiple progenitors of populations. It does not necessarily mean they are more 'pure.'

Nor does it mean that Northern Pashtun's who have mixed with Tajik or the Harappa a "proper representation" of 40 plus million Pashtuns.

Yes pure as in not mixed with Mongols or Dravidians.

Caution for anyone reading these genetic threads.

1 small samples
2 mixed pashtuns, dissect the study do not rely on interpretations.
3 agenda by Indians and Pakis to deny Aryans or Pashtun history, backed by their governments and scientist in these Frankenstein projects.

Read it with a grain of salt, no harm done, a trifling annoyance.

Dravidian watch!

[Midnight_Sun]

I'll ignore your bigotry in the 2nd half of your post.

As for your comment: I never claimed it is THE representation of Pashtuns. But so far, every research that has been done: One with Southern Pashtuns, Northern Pashtuns, Eastern Pashtuns (Pakistan), private analysis of Yusufzais, Mohmands, not to forget my own, as well as Autosomal analysis, shows few things that can not be denied:

1: R1a is dominant.
2: G2c is unique among all Afghan ethnicities
3. Tajiks and Pashtuns have higher R1a than their surrounding neighbors
4. U2 is prevalent in most recent study of mtDNA
5. Autosomally, they match the region that they live in: Eurasian and South Asian

--

My results from Autosomal, Y & Mt, all fall in line with this research. I'm not the only Pashtun who has tested his results in this forum. Anas Khogiani has also tested and he is G2c. If you look into the Harappa project, you will find many Pashtuns in the study, as well as in the database of FTdna Afghan-Pakistan DNA project. Before you jump to conclusions, have knee-jerk reactions, and lash out with racist conspiracies, dig deep in the articles and read the data. You can't refute anything. Everything correlates with every research that has been performed. Am I saying we should stop research because we have enough conclusions? Of course not. There is a lot that can still be done:

1) Full mtDNA analysis of more Pashtuns from throughout Afghanistan
2) Full Y-DNA analysis of Pashtuns divided by tribe to see how related they are to each other and within their own tribe
3) Analysis and Comparison of Afghan and Jewish G2c samples to see when they diverged

I'm sure there are people out there who are working on this. There is a fellow I met online who was doing an analysis on the Mohmand tribe, but his data is set to private for now. There will be more studies in the future as well.

[Apollyon]

Exposing to much buddy!

Pashtuns have the highest frequency of "pure" ancient Aryan blood outside Europe, Don't ask Dr. David Duke, ask your fellow scientist.

A Genetic Genealogy Community • View topic - Pashtun vs Indic R1a1a

....."although sometimes twisted due to "human factor" as found in India...

..There are some (rarely) situations that by chance a subclade is "pure" (or almost pure), that is contains only one branch, then the modal can accidentally be that base haplotype. However, it is unpredictable, and typically not so.

http://aklyosov.home.comcast.net/~aklyosov/5_3_2012.pdf

..they observe that the russians and balkans reported by klyosov have similar loci and age estimates as Pashtuns...
A Genetic Genealogy Community • View topic - Pashtun vs Indic R1a1a

Hey wait a minute those language similarities in Serbia Croatia and pashtun's this can't be odd coincidence.


The more central problem, say Khan and other Pashtuns, is biocolonialism. "The only people who should be doing this are groups that have Pashtun permission," Khan says. "Pashtuns aren't afraid of a DNA test - we just want to do it under our own auspices.

Gene Watch Page

Dravidan Watch!

[Apollyon]

I'll ignore your bigotry in the 2nd half of your post.

2: G2c is unique among all Afghan ethnicities
--
Anas Khogiani has also tested and he is G2c. If you look into the Harappa project, you will find many Pashtuns in the study, as well as in the database of FTdna Afghan-Pakistan DNA project. Before you jump to conclusions, have knee-jerk reactions, and lash out with racist conspiracies, dig deep in the articles and read the data. You can't refute anything. Everything correlates with every research that has been performed.

3) Analysis and Comparison of Afghan and Jewish G2c samples to see when they diverged

I'm sure there are people out there who are working on this. .

West Afghanistan,early 19th Century rug


Pashtuns are closer to Irani-Europoids than Middle easterners. Southern Afghans being less diversity than Northern. Hindukush formed a barrier to gene flow between north and south populations. Southern population, are genetically closer to Kurgan region- Southwest Russia. The original Aryans that migrated thousands of years ago into Afghanistan.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:S4qBiXN9-gwJ:ijjkk.com/science?_ob%3DMImg%26_imagekey%3DB6W7W-51Y44Y3-1-B%26_cdi%3D6637%26_user%3D4861547%26_pii%3DS1344622310001549%26_origin%3Dbrowse%26_zone%3Drslt_list_item%26_coverDate%3D03%252F31%252F2011%26_sk%3D999869997%26wchp%3DdGLzVzb-zSkzV%26_valck%3D1%26md5%3D2033d2f350480c0ecb1ea2bafe2ca7cc%26ie%3D/sdarticle.pdf+y-str+profiling+in+two+afghanistan+populations&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjA6HK8Rv9ZF-VOkvkSp4jM48x5Ef2cgcf3n660TW628Xr0Fnleeb8-2cGkuNmFl7WCziEYDbPPOrcDXq5T4XCorG3SuX7fVpEKn9CY4etXxzkVVwKp0o4EaV6FqL5NVtN0XHdZ&sig=AHIEtbT4bLG9bkGnrUjP0143fw9lqRQ3Yw&pli=1

Pathan/Pashtun Admixture Results | Harappa Ancestry Project

The Russian Journal of Genetic Genealogy : Vol 2 , No 1 , 20 1 1
The origin of the Pashtuns

According to the cultural tradition Pathan have origins from Jews. But as will be shown below this tradition is irrelevant to the Pashtun Y - haplogroups, which generally are of non - Middle Eastern origin.

Among the potential ancestors of the Pashtuns with haplogroup R 1a1a may include: 1. Indo-Aryans who invaded India through Afghanistan.

Northern Afghan 50, R1A1, Southern Afghan 66,6

it should be noted that most of the Southern Pashtuns belong to two tribal unions: Durrani (derived from the first son of Pathan) and Ghilzai (derived from the second son of Pathan). Durrani live i n western and southwestern Afghanistan; Ghilzai live in the south and south - eastern Afghanistan

Sabitov

Like I said Northern Pashtuns (minority) are mixed with Tajik-Mongol or some like yourself carrying G2c and the like are not representation of majority, Southern & Mountainous regions "pure".

No we are not Jews, Dravidians, Khazars as majority!

science reason logic is not racism.