pashtun etymology

[khushal]

You really have a hard time with analogies it seems. and you're wrong, gravity cannot, in FULL be explained in a few sentences. That's why you need the Maths for that.

regardless your argument doesn't hold. Not being able to explain it doesn't make it speculative. and Furthermore I already posted Linguistic references, I guess their argument is that the Phonetic characteristics of the languages pre-dating Pashto carry those "Shhh and "Zheey" sounds and since Pashto transitioned from those languages the SHH and ZHEY sounds would have to be the most ancient thus Southern Pashto is the oldest.

its speculation if you cant explain the reasoning behind your claim, it looks more like a guess. I never asked for a book length FULL explanation, just the one like you did in your post right there.

Since you claim that the Ghilzai are Turks and they speak the soft sh Pashto, would a theory also not develop that maybe they had a hard time adapting to the kh sound so maybe the sh pashto was developed later by assimilated people.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

its speculation if you cant explain the reasoning behind your claim, it looks more like a guess. I never asked for a book length FULL explanation, just the one like you did in your post right there.

Since you claim that the Ghilzai are Turks and they speak the soft sh Pashto, would a theory also not develop that maybe they had a hard time adapting to the kh sound so maybe the sh pashto was developed later by assimilated people.

Then that's like saying that you can't explain gravity you're speculating gravity, since you don't fully understand gravity and I know for a fact that you don't because you're ignorant of it. I have neever claimed anything about Ghilzais speaking soft Pashto ????; you're having reading problems again. You don't need to have a full book explanation; the fact is you can't merely explain Everything in a few sentences, that doesn't make them speculation. Your logic is faulty AS USUAL!!!.

You just can't cope with reality

[Badlun]

So [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION],
Have you read anything about the soft "Sh" Pashto predating the hard "Kh" Pashto and if so can you explain how that conclusion was made. Thanks.

So far I have not read anything that SH Pashto predates KH Pashto. My personal opinion is that there is no time- wise developmental stages between the two dialects as right from the beginning both the speakers speak Pashto according to their dialect.

Otherwise if SH predates then it should now disappear and only KH should prevail. Also in many places members of the same tribe speak one dialect and at another location they speak another dialect.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Otherwise if SH predates then it should now disappear and only KH should prevail. Also in many places members of the same tribe speak one dialect and at another location they speak another dialect.

Faulty logic;

This is like when Creationists say that if Humans evolved from other Primates, then why are there still monkeys. This is faulty reasoning because many things which other things stem from Still exist and co-exist with their predecessors.

Also your second claim can be explained simply by Social Influence. Just like many people who live in Kabul forgot Pashto and speak Dari because that was the language of the surrodundings. Same thing happened when people moved to other areas they adopt a different dialect.

[khushal]

Then that's like saying that you can't explain gravity you're speculating gravity, since you don't fully understand gravity and I know for a fact that you don't because you're ignorant of it. I have neever claimed anything about Ghilzais speaking soft Pashto ????; you're having reading problems again. You don't need to have a full book explanation; the fact is you can't merely explain Everything in a few sentences, that doesn't make them speculation. Your logic is faulty AS USUAL!!!.

You just can't cope with reality

Listen you fool, when you don't have an explanation behind your claim, it looks like a guess and that's speculation. For example if I say the kh Pashto predates the sh Pashto without an explanation, I am merely guessing which is speculating. Gravitational force is explained to 3rd graders, they don't need to know the mathematics behind it so they can figure out where a certain meteor headed towards earth is going to land, its not necessary to learn the details about gravity unless you are going to specialize in it. Your trying to get out of your claim by saying "I cant give you the book length explanation of it because Im not a linguist."

I think you are the one that doesn't know what gravity is because how could someone be not aware of it when the reason everyone is on the ground is because of it.

But ghilzai do speak soft Pashto, you don't have to claim it, it is a fact whether you claim it or not. I was merely giving an alternative explanation to your original explanation.

Besides that no one except you are claiming this. Yasmina is a linguist and she has not heard of it and Badlun has not either.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No it's not like a guess, well established facts are never guesses, even if you don't "understand" them. And in linguistics it is well established that the SHH/ZHEY aspects of Southern Pashto links them to ancient languages and thus making it the original dialect.

So all your knuckle dragging aside, your logic is poor and so is your ability to read. Only Ghilzais that speak a Soft Pashto are the ones who moved to Kandahar, just like there are Pashtuns who speak Farsi and nothing else. So your argument wouldn't have a thing to do with the age of Pashto.

[khushal]

No it's not like a guess, well established facts are never guesses, even if you don't "understand" them. And in linguistics it is well established that the SHH/ZHEY aspects of Southern Pashto links them to ancient languages and thus making it the original dialect.

So all your knuckle dragging aside, your logic is poor and so is your ability to read. Only Ghilzais that speak a Soft Pashto are the ones who moved to Kandahar, just like there are Pashtuns who speak Farsi and nothing else. So your argument wouldn't have a thing to do with the age of Pashto.

But we don't know that it is a well established fact. you saying it does not make it so and that is why I called it a guess because you refused to post an explanation at the beginning. Your like Shamlawar who uses "its shirk because I say so" tactic.

There are Ghilzais all over Afghanistan and Pakistan who speak the soft Pashto including the nomadic Kochis, not just in Kandahar. So its your logic that is poor.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

But we don't know that it is a well established fact. you saying it does not make it so and that is why I called it a guess because you refused to post an explanation at the beginning. Your like Shamlawar who uses "its shirk because I say so" tactic.

There are Ghilzais all over Afghanistan and Pakistan who speak the soft Pashto including the nomadic Kochis, not just in Kandahar. So its your logic that is poor.

Right they ADOPTED the Southern Dialect, Which is my point. Adopting a dialect doesn't mean your original dialect was such. Furthermore Since Pashto TRANSFORMED into a KHAAA dialect as people moved Eastward, people who initially learned Soft Pashto eventually turned it into a KHAA dialect after contact with other peoples like the Turks. When Ghilzais moved to Kandahar and such places where the dialect was more common they more than likely spoke that.

Which Ghilzai Kuchis that live inside the Hard Dialect concentrated area speak a Soft dialect?

I knew it was a well established fact, MAYBE YOU didn't know but this is because you have severe problems with confirmation bias and avoid uncomfortable information.

I didn't use a "it's shirk" argument; you were using POOR logic Poor Logic is poor logic.

[khushal]

Right they ADOPTED the Southern Dialect, Which is my point. Adopting a dialect doesn't mean your original dialect was such. Furthermore Since Pashto TRANSFORMED into a KHAAA dialect as people moved Eastward, people who initially learned Soft Pashto eventually turned it into a KHAA dialect after contact with other peoples like the Turks. When Ghilzais moved to Kandahar and such places where the dialect was more common they more than likely spoke that.

Which Ghilzai Kuchis that live inside the Hard Dialect concentrated area speak a Soft dialect?

I knew it was a well established fact, MAYBE YOU didn't know but this is because you have severe problems with confirmation bias and avoid uncomfortable information.

I didn't use a "it's shirk" argument; you were using POOR logic Poor Logic is poor logic.

You don't make sense. What do you mean by people moving eastward and changing their dialect. It is said the Pashtun originated from the Sulaimon mountain range which is where the kh Pashto is mostly spoken. As people moved out from the mountains in every direction, it is more plausible they then changed their dialect.
The Kochis that move through paktia all speak the sh Pashto in an area that kh Pashto is mostly spoken.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You don't make sense. What do you mean by people moving eastward and changing their dialect. It is said the Pashtun originated from the Sulaimon mountain range which is where the kh Pashto is mostly spoken. As people moved out from the mountains in every direction, it is more plausible they then changed their dialect.
The Kochis that move through paktia all speak the sh Pashto in an area that kh Pashto is mostly spoken.

What's your point?

Which Kuchiyan speak shhh dialect, how long do they stay in Paktia, where is their qeshlak and where is there keshlak? Kuchis are nomads after all and they only go certain places during grazing months.

And Sulaiman Mountains

The Sulaiman Mountains (Pashto: د سليمان غر da Sulaimān Ğar; Balochi/Urdu/Persian: کوه سليمان Koh-e Sulaimān), or the Kesai Mountains (Pashto: د كسي غرونه), are a major geological feature of eastern and southeastern Afghanistan (Zabul, most of Loya Paktia and northeastern Kandahar), South Waziristan,

Northeast Kandahar - Soft Pashto
Zabul- Soft Pashto
South Waziristan Soft Pashto
Loy Paktia, (Khost has Soft Pashto, Paktika South( Soft) Paktika North (Hard) Paktia proper hard Pashto)

So on the contrary they're predominantly Soft Pashto speakers along the Sulaiman Range and another note is that Paktia ...is further NORTH EAST than the other areas, which makes sense with what I stated, the further eastward people went the LESS they spoke Soft Pashto.

[Kushan Prince]

You don't make sense. What do you mean by people moving eastward and changing their dialect. It is said the Pashtun originated from the Sulaimon mountain range which is where the kh Pashto is mostly spoken. As people moved out from the mountains in every direction, it is more plausible they then changed their dialect.
The Kochis that move through paktia all speak the sh Pashto in an area that kh Pashto is mostly spoken.

Lol come on wrora we all know pashtuns didn't orignate from Suleiman mountains those are all theories. And your tribe has nothing to do with what dialect you speak, its all about your geographic location, where you are located.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Lol come on wrora we all know pashtuns didn't orignate from Suleiman mountains those are all theories. And your tribe has nothing to do with what dialect you speak, its all about your geographic location, where you are located.

wow I'm surprised, you finally said something correct and made sense.

[khushal]

What's your point?

Which Kuchiyan speak shhh dialect, how long do they stay in Paktia, where is their qeshlak and where is there keshlak? Kuchis are nomads after all and they only go certain places during grazing months.

The point is that you intitially said that only the ghilzais that speak the soft Pashto moved to Kandahar and I responded that ghilzais all over Afghanistan and pakisitan inlcuding the nomadic koshyan speak the soft Pashto, not just the Kandahari ghilzais.

And Sulaiman Mountains

Northeast Kandahar - Soft Pashto
Zabul- Soft Pashto
South Waziristan Soft Pashto
Loy Paktia, (Khost has Soft Pashto, Paktika South( Soft) Paktika North (Hard) Paktia proper hard Pashto)

So on the contrary they're predominantly Soft Pashto speakers along the Sulaiman Range and another note is that Paktia ...is further NORTH EAST than the other areas, which makes sense with what I stated, the further eastward people went the LESS they spoke Soft Pashto.

The majority speak the kh Pashto but still that doesn't really prove that one came before the other.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The point is that you intitially said that only the ghilzais that speak the soft Pashto moved to Kandahar and I responded that ghilzais all over Afghanistan and pakisitan inlcuding the nomadic koshyan speak the soft Pashto, not just the Kandahari ghilzais.



The majority speak the kh Pashto but still that doesn't really prove that one came before the other.

You're side stepping ...which Kuchiyan Ghilzais speak "shh" Pashto that do not not reside in regions predominantly inhabitant by Soft Pashto speakers.
and no I already pointed out the majority of these regions speak Soft Pashto, mainly Paktia proper speaks Hard Pakhto.

You can't even name one and demonstrate that this is in fact the case. You're making an unestablished claim.


Even Kushan Prince called you out and said that dialect depends on Geography not tribe.

[khushal]

do you even realize what your writing. it was you who claimed that ghilzai who speak soft Pashto moved to Kandahar, I never made the claim it was tribe and I was referring to the nomadic kochyan who didn't really reside anywhere until recently.