Afghanistan And Pakhtuns' Destiny

[khyaal]

let me mke few important points straight

1) afghanistan is most failed state
2) afghanistan has no intellectul community but full of drug dealing warlords and terrorists
3) government only control kabul and outside kabul ruled by jahilun
4) afghanistan has no identity or respect in the world
5) afghanis r trouble causers and always at state of war mindset
6) ungrateful people who one side curse pakistan but other side beg on streets of pakistan for hand outs
7) afghani army full of drug addcits rapists and corrupted bribe taking officers who mostly are tajiks
8) afghanis never ever fought for side of paksitani pashtuns even when they had chance during india war but stood still a was neutral
9) Pakistani Pashtuns are very patrotic of pakistan even pashtun nationalists prefer paksitan over stateless afghanis
10) if one goes to pakhtunkhwa and say who is afghanis they will say they are immigrant majjars

they say in pakistan

Da Afghanay kho Majaar dai

pakistani pashtuns will never say we are afghanis officially

how can afghanis led pashtuns when if you go to islamabad and when you see areas such as gulshan etc all the poor mud huts and criminal areas all are afghanis who live there

This is all bogus. With your fake nicks you can't deceive us and we also know that you are a Punjo in the guise of Pashtuns. Pakistani Pashutns mostly hate Pakistan and are proud of their true Pashtun/afghan identity than the superficial and officially imposed Paaki identity.

[PakistaniWazir]

This is all bogus. With your fake nicks you can't deceive us and we also know that you are a Punjo in the guise of Pashtuns. Pakistani Pashutns mostly hate Pakistan and are proud of their true Pashtun/afghan identity than the superficial and officially imposed Paaki identity.

Achakzai kho deeeeer Sakth proud Paksitanay dai

if he is such proud afghani he should come to islamabad with his balochi chapals and say proudly infront of assembly speaker that zma watan afghanistan dai aow ma ta afghanay id card raka????

haha.

da gha Afghani Identity cha shay dai??

Ahmad Shah was very proud Durranay this why he only apppoint his own tribe as kings and leaders of Farsi word Afghanistan.

In pakistan anybody can be president, king or politician regardless of race and cast

[khyaal]

Achakzai kho deeeeer Sakth proud Paksitanay dai

if he is such proud afghani he should come to islamabad with his balochi chapals and say proudly infront of assembly speaker that zma watan afghanistan dai aow ma ta afghanay id card raka????

haha.

da gha Afghani Identity cha shay dai??

Ahmad Shah was very proud Durranay this why he only apppoint his own tribe as kings and leaders of Farsi word Afghanistan.

In pakistan anybody can be president, king or politician regardless of race and cast

Look CHAMCHAY! The tribal region is not Pakistan proper, You can't show us a single documentary proof that the seven tribal agencies are part of Pakistan or they ever decided to join Pakistan. Their status is like that of the Occupied Kashmir which is under Pakistani control So your hue and cry over joining Pakistan or afghanistan is useless. The inhabitants of these tribal agencies are proud afghans and they are AZAD QABAIL. It is another matter if someone pays you for all this. We too could arrange to give you some money as charity.

[ijaz yousafzai]

let me mke few important points straight

1) afghanistan is most failed state
2) afghanistan has no intellectul community but full of drug dealing warlords and terrorists
3) government only control kabul and outside kabul ruled by jahilun
4) afghanistan has no identity or respect in the world
5) afghanis r trouble causers and always at state of war mindset
6) ungrateful people who one side curse pakistan but other side beg on streets of pakistan for hand outs
7) afghani army full of drug addcits rapists and corrupted bribe taking officers who mostly are tajiks
8) afghanis never ever fought for side of paksitani pashtuns even when they had chance during india war but stood still a was neutral
9) Pakistani Pashtuns are very patrotic of pakistan even pashtun nationalists prefer paksitan over stateless afghanis
10) if one goes to pakhtunkhwa and say who is afghanis they will say they are immigrant majjars

they say in pakistan

Da Afghanay kho Majaar dai

pakistani pashtuns will never say we are afghanis officially

how can afghanis led pashtuns when if you go to islamabad and when you see areas such as gulshan etc all the poor mud huts and criminal areas all are afghanis who live there

I have seen some illogical and rash posts on this thread, and the above is one of these. This post does not represent the feelings of the Eastern Pakhtuns and seem an outburst of a disgruntled individual.

[ijaz yousafzai]

did i say i was “cool” with “persianization? i said that what you call “persianization” is simply a part of Afghan culture to which Pashtuns are an integral part. Pashtuns make up the culture as much as the other people that have lived there throughout its history

Is it not a contradictory stand, " justifying" the Persianization syndrom in Afghanistan in the garb of " integration" and a part of " Afghan Culture" and on the other hand lashing on the " punjabization" in the Eastern Pakhtun belt?. I personally hate both as a realist.

[muhsina]

let me mke few important points straight

1) afghanistan is most failed state
2) afghanistan has no intellectul community but full of drug dealing warlords and terrorists
3) government only control kabul and outside kabul ruled by jahilun
4) afghanistan has no identity or respect in the world
5) afghanis r trouble causers and always at state of war mindset
6) ungrateful people who one side curse pakistan but other side beg on streets of pakistan for hand outs
7) afghani army full of drug addcits rapists and corrupted bribe taking officers who mostly are tajiks
8) afghanis never ever fought for side of paksitani pashtuns even when they had chance during india war but stood still a was neutral
9) Pakistani Pashtuns are very patrotic of pakistan even pashtun nationalists prefer paksitan over stateless afghanis
10) if one goes to pakhtunkhwa and say who is afghanis they will say they are immigrant majjars

they say in pakistan

Da Afghanay kho Majaar dai

pakistani pashtuns will never say we are afghanis officially

how can afghanis led pashtuns when if you go to islamabad and when you see areas such as gulshan etc all the poor mud huts and criminal areas all are afghanis who live there

You may create a hundred ids defaming the Pashtuns of Swat, Waziristan and Swabi etc but you cannot hide your rear. We know where it is coming from.

1) Afghanistan is on the way to progress contrary to Pakistan which after achieving the status of failed state is moving with accelerated pace to its logical culmination of a natural death and we can expect the certified slaves of the Brits lamenting on its embalmed corpse one day.

2) If you consider the sell outs like I.H. Qureshi,Nazir Naji and other as intellectuals then yes we dont have such sellouts among Afghans.

3) You cannot sell this ISPR BS to the world any more. The Afghans who were misguided by the Punjabi ISI hypocrites are realizing this fact fast and are now considering the malicious intentions of Pakistani spy agencies. Mulla Zaeef reservations over giving a role to Pakistan in the development projects in Afghanistan was a clear indication of that fact.

4) Are you telling us that a 250 years plus old state has no identity and the state which has no history and is facing identity crises is claiming identity?? Have some shame if you know what it is. Afghanistan was there even when your grand ancestor was going through the embryonic phases. Respect and Pakistan are antonyms as all the world knows.

5) If trouble is for the right cause it is justified. Afghans are peaceful people but the imperialist nations and groups of the world do not let them live in peace and use their land for their vested interests. Any person or nation with conscience will retaliate to infiltration and imperialism. We do not consider submission as wisdom.

5) The poor state of Afghans is due to the vested interests of criminal Pakistani army and military the ashes of whose generals were not even found after they destroyed Afghan land. Your military and elite is responsible for making Afghans orphans and snatching their hopes and dreams and you will have to face the music of Afghan revenge one day. Take it as my prediction and put it in a frame to tell it to your offspring whose life will rarely enjoy any forthcoming spring.

6) You cannot divide Afghans on ethnic lines. Even your forefathers and best minds could not do it with full force of their rear ends. However what is for sure is and take it as a prediction too that Pakistan will get Balkanized in the near future. Your lot is famous for defaming. Such is the cheap genetic code of your people which compels you guys biologically to talk filth and nothing but filth.

7 and 8) All wars against India were initiated and lost by Pakistan. Pashtuns in the occupied territory of Pakhtunkhwa should realize that the more they live under this slavery of the Punjab the more will they lose their precious lives for nothing , neither for Islam nor for their nation. This is called in Quran " Khasiral Dunya wal Akhira". Hence the sooner Pakhtun of Pakhtunkhwa gets rid of the Punjabi slavery the better it is. Ofcourse Afghans are not fools to waste their lives to fight their friends.

9 and 10) The media and "Mutalia Pakistan" will not be able to have this artificial polarity and bias among the Afghans of "lar aw bar watan" [Afghans across the Durand line] for long. Other than some hypnotized teens or certified sellouts, you will soon go on defense when the last days of your Punjabi empire will see its demise due to the countdown of this banana state.

Son of Ranjit Singh..You cannot fight the laws of history. You have to face the same music which you uploaded a couple of decades ago to Afghanistan.

[eusuphxai]

@muhsina so you are telling me that ranjit singh did his mom? how about if he tells you about any of the afghans doing to your mom? stick to the debate answer with logic and refrain from personal attacks.

[ijaz yousafzai]

But Saifullah brothers, Amir Muqam, Nighat Orakzai, Ali jan Orakzai, Owais Ghani etc. are not Pakistani/Punjabi elite, they are Pashtun politicians who took very strong anti Pashtun stance on vital Pashtun issues related to our identity and our survival as nation.

They are overwhelmed by their political interest. I am at loss to understand how are you comparing me with these " Centralist" politician?. Do you really think I am an anti-Pakhtun-Lol

But the question is why Bengalis, the real creators of Pakistan, took radical stand and Pashtun leadership compromised over vital national issues, though our case to resist Punjabi imperialism was/is much stronger?

Bengalis constituted a majority in the united Pakistan, which became subdued under the Mohajir- Punjabi dominance. First Bengali language was relegated to a secondary position , ( if you can draw a parallel with the position of Pakhtuns in Afghanistan), and then their socio-politico-economic existence was immensly jeopardized. They formed the most homogenous entity in the united Pakistan, who had political unison and harmony. On the other hand, Pakhtuns formed only 11 percent of the population and divided in different political parties, who could elect only 2 members to the National Assembly under Pakhtun nationalist banner.The state of affairs depicted on this Forum among the Eastern Pakhtuns is highly indicative of the fact of political fragmentation of the Eastern Pakhtuns. Therefore Pakhtuns can not be compared with the Bengalis in this respect. I wish we were like Bengalis!

The case of Pashtuns in Pakistan is much different. The then NAP and now ANP, in my opinion, made compromises or got scared by the very strong military establishment and its intelligence agencies OR they completely lacked political vision. Apparently the NAP/ANP leadership under Wali Khan gradually became softened towards the Punjabi establishment and was not willing to face troubles.

There is no denying the fact that NAP-ANP went though compromises and could not take a formidable stand against anti- Pakhtun elements. Wali Khan, once attributed it frankly, with the lukeworm response and lack of affiliation of Pakhtun population to/ with Pakhtun nationalist parties.Pakhtun could return only a couple of member to the constituent assembly due to lamentable political polarization and disunity among the Pakhtuns, while we are tirelessly crying for " waging a war" on our adversaries like Bengalis did.I certainly agree with the allegation against the Pakhtun leadership, as well. but can you tell me if Wali Khan could not deliver in Shomali Pakhtunkhwa, why Mehmood Khan Achakzai could not influence the Pakhtuns of Janobi Pakhtunkhwa. And for that matter why Khushal Baba passed cursing the Pakhtuns, at large;
"Pa Lakhkar Lakhkar Naaro Shom Warta Stare
DA Kaanra Raata Meerak Waaee Na Zaar"
The same fate fell on Bacha Khan, who was another towering appostle of Pakhtun unity.

It is not the famine of leadership. Partly it is the control of pseudo nationalists of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa who are in the garb of Pashtun nationalists and partly the loyalty factors due to khudai khidmatgaar movement which keeps millions of Pashtuns stick to the platform provided by these pseudo nationalists in the false hope of being their messiah.

Unfortunately the true Pashtun nationalist leadership faces a dilemma here. It not only has to fight the strong Punjabi establishment but also has to struggle against these pseudo nationalists. And the inevitable result will be further polarization of Pashtun society.

Simply absurd and ridiculous! Wherefrom we should fetch our leadership?. I blame the Pakhtun leadership and the Pakhtun headless masses, equally;
" Hum wafadar nahein tu bhi to dil!dar nahein".
Khyal saib! WE, Pakhtuns are unfortunate lot. We are in habit to adore our dead heroes, and you are not an exception;

" Che jwande woom taa pa kaanro ba weeshtama
OOs me wale khkulawe da qabar kaanree."

I know the indifference of ANP towards PONAM, and I am very critical of it.

This is merely a hyperbole and you can't prove that there is a separate Parsiban culture. If there is any such culture different from the dominant Afghan culture then, please, explain to us its genesis and roots.

There is not a seperate Parsiban culture?I am amazed and I can only laugh it out.Get to my main article to find it out.

To sustain Punjab's hegemony there is a very strong and overwhelmingly Punjabi dominated civil and military bureaucracy. This is apart from their disproportionate parliamentary majority.
For the assumed parsiban group you can't show us any supporting civil cum military structure or parliamentary majority to support it. You can explain your theory only through palace intrigues. lo l

Punjabis make 52 percent population in Pakistan, while Pakhtuns are in tiny minority. It is true that Punjabis enjoy unparallel hegemony in Pakistan on all other ethnicities/ communities due to their poulation and lion's share in the civil and military establishment. The Mohajirs are,now challenging them politically in Punjab, as they are cohessive in their political belief and keep trust in their leadership. Pukhtuns in Afghanistan, similarly wield absolute maojrity and a Pakhtun rule sprawling over 363 years, but their socio-politico-economical position is not at-par what should have been.
Matching Pakhtuns in Afghanistan with Pakhtuns of Pakhtunkhwa( Shomali/Janobi) in respect of their " achievments" is not justified. The Pakhtuns of Afghanistan and Afghan goverment should have been strong and formidable enough to get a leading role in Afghanistan and should have strong muscles enough to " salvage" their brothern Pakhtuns seperated under a " Forced Treaty", repeatedly sanctioned by Afghan rulers.
Pakhtuns, no doubt, reach to the Afghan parliament in majority, as they make a big majority and democracy is certainly a "number game", but do they use this majority for conslidation of Pakhtun aspirations in Afghanistan, is a debatable issue. Pakhtuns are still not happy with their representation in different organs of the government.

Urdu was imposed through an official order on the rest of nations in Pakistan. Apart from that you don't have an option for your own language here. Pashtuns in Pakistan are not allowed to use their language in courts of justice, parliament, educational institutions, official correspondence, official documentations etc.

Lol. Can we draw a coparison between two similar people , one of wich enjoys a brute majority in its territory and had a long self-rule for more than three and a half centuries, while the other was a non-reckonable minority in its destined geography. and remained subjugated, first by Firingis and then by Mohajir- Punjabi aristocracy. But the question is , are we satisfied with the socio- political level/status/role held by our brothers on the west of the Durand Line in view of their remaing a reckonable majority and having a self rule for centuries, which was not enjoyed by Eastern Pakhtuns. Hence the handicap of language and culture should not be whirled as a " Peghor" on the Eastern Pakhtuns.

lol. This is ridiculous. King Zahir Shah himself a Pashtun/afghan would dupe his own majority population. Here you again consciously or unconsciously are applying Pakistani model where the so-called Pashtun military dictator Ayub khan ruled through the support of Punjabi establishment.

King Zahir Shah was a Pakhtun and to find that out one needed a DNA test of his blood, as he could not speak his own language 'Pashto". Language is the loudest mouth-piece of culture and Zahir Shah tremendously lacked it. Ayub Khan was a so- called Pakhtun and his elevation to the Highest Office was not attributed to the Pakhtuns. He had also lost his languge like King Zahir Shah. This a ridiculous comparison.

Listen, Ijaz saib! In Afghanistan you can't show us any such invisible and omnipotent power within the hands of your imagined Parsiban lobby which could dethrone or enthrone kings. Kingship in Afghanistan was either hereditary or through a military coup. For the military coup to be successful one again would need full Pashtun support. To get kingship through inheritance one would have to follow traditions set by great Pashtun elders.

Yes, if one is blindfolded, then i can not help. You are living in utopia, the ground realities are very startling and harsh. Pakhtuns make a majority but do they possess the commensurating socio- political might, a question which you fail to understand. nor bya

[muhsina]

@muhsina so you are telling me that ranjit singh did his mom? how about if he tells you about any of the afghans doing to your mom? stick to the debate answer with logic and refrain from personal attacks.

eusuphxai

You draw wrong conclusions from correct premises.Its not my fault. This was a general call to the Punjabis [whom I referred to as " Son of Ranjeet Singh"] because Ranjeet Singh was a Punjabi hero. This is the same as saying for a Pashtun " Son of Ahmed Shah Baba" - "de ahmed shah bachiya" in Pashto. This phrase is widely used in Pashto poetry. It has no derogatory implications. Dont teach me to focus on the topic as I have already replied to it.

[khyaal]

@muhsina so you are telling me that ranjit singh did his mom? how about if he tells you about any of the afghans doing to your mom? stick to the debate answer with logic and refrain from personal attacks.

btw, you just read his last sentence.

[eusuphxai]

eusuphxai

You draw wrong conclusions from correct premises.Its not my fault. This was a general call to the Punjabis [whom I referred to as " Son of Ranjeet Singh"] because Ranjeet Singh was a Punjabi hero. This is the same as saying for a Pashtun " Son of Ahmed Shah Baba" - "de ahmed shah bachiya" in Pashto. This phrase is widely used in Pashto poetry. It has no derogatory implications. Dont teach me to focus on the topic as I have already replied to it.

I am saying what you said, also Ahmad shah Baba was our hero and if someone tell you that it will always be with the intention to honour you, you know the reputation of ranjeet and anyone with common sense will know that you were insultive, lastly he is not punjabay just like if i call you da bush bachiya. also how is it related to the topic.

btw, you just read his last sentence.

and i am too stupid for this can you clearly tell me what exactly is your point?

[ijaz yousafzai]

Son of Ranjit Singh..You cannot fight the laws of history. You have to face the same music which you uploaded a couple of decades ago to Afghanistan.

The language is objectionable and not worthy of a Pakhtun lady.

[khyaal]

I am saying what you said, also Ahmad shah Baba was our hero and if someone tell you that it will always be with the intention to honour you, you know the reputation of ranjeet and anyone with common sense will know that you were insultive, lastly he is not punjabay just like if i call you da bush bachiya. also how is it related to the topic.



and i am too stupid for this can you clearly tell me what exactly is your point?

Don't become so meticulous, she didn't claim that she wrote some intellectual masterpiece. it is part of political debate. And, btw, this so called "Pakistani"wazir should be replied in the same manner in which he wrote his post.

[eusuphxai]

I am not expecting it from her anyway.

Personal attacks are not part of political debates, it is a sign of frustration, ill logic, and mirror of your character. PakistaniWazir if he abuse should be reported and kicked out.

lastly you didnt answer what I asked, what was in my last sentence that you were all smiles about?

[khyaal]

.

lastly you didnt answer what I asked, what was in my last sentence that you were all smiles about?

Nothing special. I just smiled to you.