Why are Pashtuns considered Indo-Iranian?

[Kushan Prince]

Consedering their culture, language, way of life are different then other Iranian people? They are also genetically different from them since Pashtuns mostly belong to the R1A halogroup and majority of indo Iranians belong to the J2 halogroup which came from the Arabian peninsula.

[kiran]

I didnt even know that.
I learned something today :p

[Karachi]

If you are talking about present day iranians or persians, they are the ones who are different and more mixed with middle eastern/arabians. People like Pashtuns, tajiks, pamiries etc... are the true indo iranians from historical perspective

[Kushan Prince]

If you are talking about present day iranians or persians, they are the ones who are different and more mixed with middle eastern/arabians. People like Pashtuns, tajiks, pamiries etc... are the true indo iranians from historical perspective

Tajiks have been mixed with Mongols and other Turkic people therefore they are not pure. Pashtuns are completely different then their neighbors and have no culture similarities to Iranians from what I hear. I don't like the term because people think it only applies to Persians.

[gadoonwal]

Dear ,
Not all but many pashutn tribes are of jews origin.
So their is istrealistic influence on pashtuns.Some are infuluenced by iranic people.
I do,nt think pashtuns are iranic people.They are different people.
They d,nt easily go with other people.
They could be of isrealistic origin.
From childhood i learn it from elders that we are bani isreal.
This theory is supported by many pakhtun historians.

[Kushan Prince]

Dear ,
Not all but many pashutn tribes are of jews origin.
So their is istrealistic influence on pashtuns.Some are infuluenced by iranic people.
I do,nt think pashtuns are iranic people.They are different people.
They d,nt easily go with other people.
They could be of isrealistic origin.
From childhood i learn it from elders that we are bani isreal.
This theory is supported by many pakhtun historians.

What Pashtun historians? Every pashtun i know denies this, even western scholars see no connection here. What i do agree with is that Pashtuns are remnants of the original Aryan people who arrived to Central Asia in the 20th century BC.

Don't try to make Pakhtuns special by comparing them to that weak Israelite theroey which has no connection.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Kushan brother, You should difference between Linguistic groups and genetic origin. Indo-Iranian is a language branch, it is not related directly to a genetical marker.
R1A is not typical only for many Iranic but for example also many Slavic nations.
Indo-Iranian is a branch of indoeuropean language family. From today sience is more correct Indo-Irano-Nuristani or Indo-Irano-Dardo-Nuristani.
The language branch divides in Iranic , Indic and Nuristani languages (Sometimes Dardic languages are considered separate as well, but sometimes it is considered part of Indic languages).
Pashto is considered from linguists as part of the Iranic branch.
The iranic branch divides initially in eastern and western Iranic.
Western Iranic divides in Southern and northern.
Southern is Considered for example Farsi/Dari and related languages. Northern is considered for example Kurdish, Zazaki, Tolishi, Gorani...
Pashto is part of the eastern subbranch.
The eastern Iranic languages are also sometimes divided in Northern and southern, but the division seems less clear, as perhaps there is n clear evidence for division. Further eastern languages are for sure less studied as except Pashto they are all small languages.
Eastern Iranic languages include except Pashto also the whole entity of Pamirian languages (Shughni, Ishkashimi, Wakhi, Munji, Yazgulomi.....), Ormuri and Parachi, that are considered southern and Ossetian (Iron and Digor) and Yaghnobi, that are considered northern. Also eastern Iranic languages include ancient languages as Baktrian, Sogdian, Khwarezmian, Saka-Sytho-Sarmatian, Avestan....
For exaple Yaghnobi is considered descendant from Sogdian and Ossetian from Scythian/Sarmatian.
These obseravations are made by linguistical similarities, not cultural or genetical.
However Iranic speakers have also many cultural similarities.
You cannot see these things out of todays political situation, as things changed and even in ancient times different Iranic speaking tribes were enemies.
If you open Shahnameh You will see that.
Turan and Iran and their wars described in Shahnameh are nothing else than wars between these tribes.
While western Iranian speakers tended to create centralized states, eastern Iranic speakers were mostly tribal societies or societies without a central government.
Sure there were also exceptions, and with the time things changed.

However as I told many things related to culture were once similar, today maybe it does not seem that way, but once these peoples seemed to have a related culture.
To give You an example how easy things change, take your own people or people like Tajiks.
Both of you are divided in different countries.
In Pakistan some Pashtuns assimilated.
In Uzbekistan many Tajiks assimilated. The difference between Tajiks in Tajikistan and Afghanistan due to life in different political realities also exists.
That all happened not even in 100 years.
Now immagine what happenes in 1000 years.
Take same Pashtuns as the ones who live in Europe, who much You will oppose, things will change with generations.
You see it on this forum too, it may sound bitter, but it is part of natural changes.

Genetically there are further only few very few homogenous populations, most Peoples are quiet mixed, and Pashtuns also do not seem to have only one type of origin, perhaps one main one, but it is not a 100%. Same concerns Tajiks, North Indians, Baloch, Armenians....
Also culturally neighbours often influence eachother, take as an example how the rubab is played by so different nations in your region, or tar and duduk are played by so different nations in my region.

If You ask me there are parallels between You and Ossetians for example. Also wehad hear a linguistic thread comaring Pashto to Shughni and Ossetian - please have a look on it.

[Tjanaparh]

To make it more confusing I'd like to say You something.
You use the name "Kushan prince".
Historically when Parthians ruled in Persia, their cousins ruled on Afghan and Armenian territory. After Parthian rule(that was more similar to a confederation of peoples) the sassanian dynasty came to power in Persia, they wanted to persianize the whole region and centralize it. Kushans and Armenians opposed it. However Sassanians used one against other in battles. Armenian historians describe that one group of Armenians was sent in a Persian Kushan war to battle, but Persians later seem to have left them, and Kushans accepted these Armenians as their brothers. I don't know what happened than, but it seems like these Armenians remained in the Kushan lands. Same happened to the Aghvan (caucasian tribal confederation) battalion of Sassanid army.

So probbly some people in your region have Armenian or Aghvan origin too?
But it that would need a genetical backup with historical studies. Today nobody really seems to d this.

[MichelleKosinski]

very interesting history to go through. its full of struggles and enthusiasm

[Tjanaparh]

Have a look here brother:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashto-language-10/closest-language-pashto-pamiri-10856/

[Kushan Prince]

Linguistics don't really prove anything. The Kushans ADOPTED the the Bactrian language which would be today's pashto. Genetically and culturally pashtuns are much different their neighbors. I don't know how many people I have heard this from, including my dad. Is anyone else in favour of an afghan race? Will I am and here are the groups who belong to it.

Afghan Race:

Pashtuns (biggest group)
Baloch (second biggest)
Nuristani people
Pashai people
Chitrali people
Khalash people (to a degree)

What do you think?

[Tjanaparh]

Brother, I explained You simply the linguistical concept.
As you asked.
What is concerning people, all is relative, nations are born and destroyed, change mindset, nothing is static.
People are also relative to different grades, that is what you can see with genetics.
Genetically there are quiet many Slavic peoples with R1a haplogoup

[Khyber Pass]

I think don't hate me on this but culturally and everything we are more similar to the other South Asian groups rather than Iranians of Central Asia today.

[Manzareh]

Linguistics don't really prove anything. The Kushans ADOPTED the the Bactrian language which would be today's pashto. Genetically and culturally pashtuns are much different their neighbors. I don't know how many people I have heard this from, including my dad. Is anyone else in favour of an afghan race? Will I am and here are the groups who belong to it.

Afghan Race:

Pashtuns (biggest group)
Baloch (second biggest)
Nuristani people
Pashai people
Chitrali people
Khalash people (to a degree)

What do you think?

Nuristani and Kalash people appear to have different genes appearance wise to a degree so maybe not related? I would replace them with Kohistani people which are basically ethnic afghans.

[Kushan Prince]

Nuristani and Kalash people appear to have different genes appearance wise to a degree so maybe not related? I would replace them with Kohistani people which are basically ethnic afghans.

I heard the nuristanis are related to the safi Pashtuns. I think the kalash people are generaly different then the rest of the population. They claim to be Greeks.