The nuristan thread

[Tjanaparh]

I always wanted to open this thread!
Please dedicate it to the discussion of history and present of Nuristani people.
Linguistics, politics culture, history, ecology, all has place here. But please lets try to stay patient, only to share information we have. Lets better write few comments, and make this thread less active, but not to transform it in a personal user user conflict. Stay patient, and if you disagree with others don't use rethorics and insults but share your view and knowledge!

[Manzareh]

How much in common boodwise/culture do these people have with Pashtuns?

[یاسمینه]

How much in common boodwise/culture do these people have with Pashtuns?

As I remember even some Pashtun members of this forum have mixed Pashtun - Nuristani ancestors. So why not to give the chance to discuss Nuristani issues here ?

[Karachi]

Nuristani/Kalash/Burusho etc... people represent the pre Islamic past of the region

[Tjanaparh]

Well, after the forcefull intiative of Aburrahman, they have culturaly much more in common than before. Before there has been big rivalry between them and Pashtuns.

[Tjanaparh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7_rAumTcNw

[Tjanaparh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl_U8r1viMU

[Tjanaparh]

http://christerirgensmoller.dk/pdf-filer/nurart.pdf

[torkham]

My mothers ancestors are nuristani.
She still speaks kati (dialect of nuristani) when she speaks to her old friends.
My input to this thread from my personal experience:
Barg-e-matal. Our madarjan's family from a village called pashwr, along the river we call landaiseen, but many outsider call it bashgul river/valley..

[Tjanaparh]

My mothers ancestors are nuristani.
She still speaks kati (dialect of nuristani) when she speaks to her old friends.
My input to this thread from my personal experience:
Barg-e-matal. Our madarjan's family from a village called pashwr, along the river we call landaiseen, but many outsider call it bashgul river/valley..

Do You understand Kati too?

[Manzareh]

What sort of rivalry, tjana?

[Tjanaparh]

What sort of rivalry, tjana?

Well, as I know from different sources, and some people from close place, before conversion the attitude of Nuristanis towards the people living in the lowlands was a kind of rivalry and they were often fighting. In opposition to attempts of forful conversion they had a culture of attacking the lowland inhabitants. And this culture of war i think survived till now, as even after conversion they are one of the most fighting people.
I think in most of the conflicts they are the backbone of resistance to foreign interference.
Some of Nuristanis fled the horror that came on them under Aburahman and settled among the Kalash tribes in Chitral. This i know from direct sources, the Kalash people. However they were like 4 families and lost any contacts to their roots and traditions and after few decades they or their children converted to Islam, along with some Kalash people.

[Midnight_Sun]

No Nuristani page can be legitimate without a mention of Richard F. Strand's page dedicated to the Nuristanis, their language, and their history within Afghanistan:

CLICK HERE AND ENJOY: Richard Strand's Nuristân Site

[Midnight_Sun]

An excerpt from his page about the interaction of Pashtuns and Indo-Aryan groups (Nuristanis, Pashais, Ormuri speaking groups):


Although some traditions of the Afghâns trace their roots to King Saul of ancient Israel, the clearly Eastern Irânian pedigree of their language belies the Islâmic propaganda behind this origin myth. The Afghâns were probably Saka ("Scythian") tribes that migrated south from Bactria over the major mountain ranges, occupying the lands from Fârâh east to the Sulaimân Mountains by at least the 10th century A.D. Some centuries earlier they apparently amalgamated in the east with Turkish descendents of the Hephthalites (5th century A.D.), who later adopted Pashto and were grafted on to the Afghân tribal descent charter as the ǧalǰi ("Ghilzai") branch (Caroe 1965).

Afghâns from the eastern borderlands filled up the regions of the Kâbul River basin that were left depopulated after the Ghaznavid Turkish conquests of the 11th century A.D. In the succeeding centuries indigenous Indo-Âryan- and Northwestern Irânian-speaking ("Ormuṛ") peoples of the mountains from Paktyâ to Peshâwar (the grafted-on Karâṇi branch of the Afghân descent charter) adopted Pashto. It is typical of these peoples to claim that they are paxt'un but not afǧ'ân, as I myself have verified for Mïšwâṇi tribesmen in upper Kunar.

In the 15th and 16th centuries A.D the Khâkhay branch of Afghâns, which includes the Yusufzi and Tarkâṇi tribes, intruded into the Laghmân, Swât and Panǰkora Basins, displacing the indigenous Indo-Aryan speakers of those regions.

The spread of the Pashto language and culture toward the northeast resulted as much from the adoption of Pashto by peoples who formerly spoke other languages as from the invasions of Pashto-speaking Afghâns. Pashto continues to displace Indo-Âryan and Nuristâni speech in the bottom lands of the Laghmân, Kâbul, and Indus Basins. The displacement process derives largely from marriage alliances that indigenous men form with Pashto speakers. A native man's Pashto-speaking wife rarely learns his language, largely because of the general chauvinistic attitude of Pashto speakers, and his children grow up speaking Pashto as their primary ("mother") language.

A similar process of "Fârsification" occurs on the west of Nuristân, where Fârsi is displacing the Nuristâni and Pashai languages in their westernmost valleys of Řâmgal and Fârazhghân.

Source: Richard Strand's Nuristân Site: Iranian-Speaking Peoples of the Hindu Kush

[Kushan Prince]

Although some traditions of the Afghâns trace their roots to King Saul of ancient Israel, the clearly Eastern Irânian pedigree of their language belies the Islâmic propaganda behind this origin myth. The Afghâns were probably Saka ("Scythian") tribes that migrated south from Bactria over the major mountain ranges, occupying the lands from Fârâh east to the Sulaimân Mountains by at least the 10th century A.D. Some centuries earlier they apparently amalgamated in the east with Turkish descendents of the Hephthalites (5th century A.D.), who later adopted Pashto and were grafted on to the Afghân tribal descent charter as the ǧalǰi ("Ghilzai") branch (Caroe 1965).
.

I thought the Ghilzai's being turks theory was scrapped. We discussed this already in another thread.