Pashtun - Armenian historical connections

[Tjanaparh]

Before writing something more specific on that subject I would like to start with a question . It is a kind interest in how historical events are in the memory of different nations .
The question is - in Afghanistan is there any evidence(for example in written form) of a contact with the Armenian kingdom or with Armenians?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Before writing something more specific on that subject I would like to start with a question . It is a kind interest in how historical events are in the memory of different nations .
The question is - in Afghanistan is there any evidence(for example in written form) of a contact with the Armenian kingdom or with Armenians?

Well it is possible considering the fact that we were all part of the ancient empires such as: Aachaemenid. Also the presence of Armenians in Iran probably could have further facilitated it. Again this is speculation. Do you have any specific ideas in mind?

[Tjanaparh]

Best Greetings !
Thank You a lot for Your Answer my Friend !
I Have some specific ideas in mind and I will try aswell if I find more time to finde the Armenian sources in English to give an idea.
My myself unfortunately don't remember all the moments of our contacts.
One moment that is sure and commented by many historians is a kind of political union establisht between different ruling families in the time of the Parthian kingdom in Iran - there was a contract between the Kushan rulers and Armenian kings( that some historians told to be cousins) - when Ardeshir Babakan(i am using the persian denomination beeing I hope more understandeble to you than the Armenian one) has defeated Ardavan , our king Khosrov went if I remember or sent his relatives to the today Afghanistan to his cousin to seek a solution what to do and how to act - at the begining there was a kind of union against the Sassanians , but cused by distance and other motives it didn't succed - Khosrov tried in military way to defeat the Sassanians - but acting at the end alone he didn't succed , it is from thereon that Armenian Persian relations get bad - and as the Sassanians tried to press ideologically on our traditional belief (that is related to Zoroastrism and Hinduism) trying to make Armenia Zoroastrian in the same way Irn was , started a conflict of belief ..
One other moment I cannot remember if it was during Achemenid or Sassanid time(I think it was the second) was a war the persians ware doing on nowdays Afghanistan(traditionally in Armenian historiography it was mentioned in all times as "Country of Kushans")- they asked Armenia(that on that moment was aswell in touble with the empire for a contingent for the war - and took the best warriors - those warriors didn't want to fight there but couldn't return and remaint to live somewhere
in the modern day Afghanistan(it was a quiet big group).
However - I will try to search for the texts of historians as I am not sure if I remember all really well.

[Nick]

Before writing something more specific on that subject I would like to start with a question . It is a kind interest in how historical events are in the memory of different nations .
The question is - in Afghanistan is there any evidence(for example in written form) of a contact with the Armenian kingdom or with Armenians?




Best Greetings !
Thank You a lot for Your Answer my Friend !
I Have some specific ideas in mind and I will try aswell if I find more time to finde the Armenian sources in English to give an idea.
My myself unfortunately don't remember all the moments of our contacts.
One moment that is sure and commented by many historians is a kind of political union establisht between different ruling families in the time of the Parthian kingdom in Iran - there was a contract between the Kushan rulers and Armenian kings( that some historians told to be cousins) - when Ardeshir Babakan(i am using the persian denomination beeing I hope more understandeble to you than the Armenian one) has defeated Ardavan , our king Khosrov went if I remember or sent his relatives to the today Afghanistan to his cousin to seek a solution what to do and how to act - at the begining there was a kind of union against the Sassanians , but cused by distance and other motives it didn't succed - Khosrov tried in military way to defeat the Sassanians - but acting at the end alone he didn't succed , it is from thereon that Armenian Persian relations get bad - and as the Sassanians tried to press ideologically on our traditional belief (that is related to Zoroastrism and Hinduism) trying to make Armenia Zoroastrian in the same way Irn was , started a conflict of belief ..
One other moment I cannot remember if it was during Achemenid or Sassanid time(I think it was the second) was a war the persians ware doing on nowdays Afghanistan(traditionally in Armenian historiography it was mentioned in all times as "Country of Kushans")- they asked Armenia(that on that moment was aswell in touble with the empire for a contingent for the war - and took the best warriors - those warriors didn't want to fight there but couldn't return and remaint to live somewhere
in the modern day Afghanistan(it was a quiet big group).
However - I will try to search for the texts of historians as I am not sure if I remember all really well.

Dear Arevapasht I would love to answer your questions, because history discussion is what I consider professional discussion. However I love Religious discussions but also Political discussions. But I personally started to hate politics, specially in the Islamic world, where bloodshed happens everyday and despite citizens involved in Politics knowing these facts have kept their voices shut simply because of their Political leaders. Therefore I consider History to be the best of all discussions. People involved in history are always smart and history itself has politics which has windows beyond our current time.

So Welcome to the forum.

The question is - in Afghanistan is there any evidence(for example in written form) of a contact with the Armenian kingdom or with Armenians?

Sardar Miwais Nazami has written a book about Armenians in Afghanistan.

I read few pages but Not all unless some-one else in here knows about it or about the book are welcome to add.


I am going to post to what he says.

According to Sardar we had Armenians until 1890s. There were 3 communities of Armenians totaled to be 3000. Mainly in Kabul the First Armenian known to Afghan history was a young married, and a son of a very rich Merchant who often traded only in Persia, but upon his Death his son took his Business to Afghanistan, (Sorry I forgot but the book mentioned his name its either "Lazmo" or "Lasmon" he was rich, and the newly coupled had given twin children born in Herat, he was welcomed by old aged King Timur Shah Durrani and a land given as a present for the two child in Kabul. In Kabul Lasman had another two children, and slowly his Business increased, and factories were open outside capital of Kabul and into Northern India. During this time British was slowing moving step by step into the Northern Regions of India, Lasmon dies during this time, his four children takes this opportunity and send letters to the Armenians that now they can also travel by Sea and that "Business is growing" such news bring over 1500 merchants, travels to northern India and settles around Lahore, out of them 1500 only 3 makes it to Afghanistan, and by 1810 total of 60 families were settled in Afghanistan, and slowly the number increased, Afghanistan became the new "hot-spot" for Armenians and it became famous for many families to move in, and out of Armenia, and other Armenian communities.


Needless to say but during that time Armenians in Islamic world were like Jews in the European world. Many of them were rich. According to Afghan sources 25% of Armenians accepted Islam during Zaman Shah periods, and later during British intermingling in afghanistan, Armenians were asked to promote Christianity "Otherwise you will all be converted into Islam", therefore as many as 4 Churches were build during Shah Suja he was like the Hamid Karzai of 1800s and during Akbar Khan the Church was asked to be closed down.

The Armenian Christians once respected, because of their siding with British, and accepting to promote Christianity many were disliked, and threaten, resulting in decline in Armenian communities many stayed however some went back to Armenia, and few to Iran and others towards escaped towards India. Once again during 2nd Anglo Afghan War, in 1878 the Armenians were put to test, this time, the Armenians decline to accept British Demand, therefore the British troops burned down Armenian Churches and send new missionaries to Kabul known as Church Missionary Society and 3 offices were open one in Lahore, one in Peshawar and another in Kabul. Again when British left, the Church Missionary Society or the Anglican Bishop was known by the England was also kicked out of Kabul. However this brave move by Armenians was loved by Afghans, in fact the Armenians saying no to their British were once again invited, but many never returned and once remain a community as many as 5000, was now 200, Afghanistan losing almost half of their ethnic Armenians.


However during 1900s the Armenian involvement in promoting Christianity continued in other parts of the world specially in Iraq, Egypt and mainly in turkey. Which resulted in Turkey making their last "Cleansing" before united as a one nation and send a later to Afghanistan as well as 6 diplomats, and 10 Islamic Scholar from Iraq, Syria and Egypt to convince the Afghans to kick these "Traders" out of Afghanistan despite in Afghanistan they were respected, but once again Habibullah Khan of Afghanistan was convinced that what-ever it may be, there is a greater risk if he doesn't kick them out specially after what his father Abdur Rahman Khan did to local Kafirstanis turned them into Nuristanis, was loved by Muslim world and known to Turkey, therefore he must do something like that, because Armenians despite living in Afghanistan for 150 years now did not converted, and must be kicked out. Which at that time during Habibullah Khan this was strong community of 3000, of which 20% stayed because they accepted Islam, but 80% of them were send to British Raj, and they were invited by British and were promoted to settle in Northern Western Pakistan ie in Sarad (Pashtunistan specially in Hazara divisions). The office at Peshawar once empty was now full of Afghanistani Armenians promoting Christianity. Today there are 3 million Christians in Pakistan (NWFP 42,000, and in FTA 3,000) of which 45,000 are resided inside Pashtunistan, 75% of them are related to those of Armenian backround.


This is the only connection of Afghan-Armenians after Islamic period, which I know, although two times in Armenian source afghanistan has been mentioned because Armenians used to travel from Persia into India and main root was Persia, so in Armenian history Afghan Race as well as Afghan people were mentioned two times, ones during Timur-e-Lank and another during Early Safivad-Mughal Era, when Afghanistan was divided.

Best Greetings !
Thank You a lot for Your Answer my Friend !
I Have some specific ideas in mind and I will try aswell if I find more time to finde the Armenian sources in English to give an idea.
My myself unfortunately don't remember all the moments of our contacts.
One moment that is sure and commented by many historians is a kind of political union establisht between different ruling families in the time of the Parthian kingdom in Iran - there was a contract between the Kushan rulers and Armenian kings( that some historians told to be cousins) - when Ardeshir Babakan(i am using the persian denomination beeing I hope more understandeble to you than the Armenian one) has defeated Ardavan , our king Khosrov went if I remember or sent his relatives to the today Afghanistan to his cousin to seek a solution what to do and how to act - at the begining there was a kind of union against the Sassanians , but cused by distance and other motives it didn't succed - Khosrov tried in military way to defeat the Sassanians - but acting at the end alone he didn't succed , it is from thereon that Armenian Persian relations get bad - and as the Sassanians tried to press ideologically on our traditional belief (that is related to Zoroastrism and Hinduism) trying to make Armenia Zoroastrian in the same way Irn was , started a conflict of belief ..
One other moment I cannot remember if it was during Achemenid or Sassanid time(I think it was the second) was a war the persians ware doing on nowdays Afghanistan(traditionally in Armenian historiography it was mentioned in all times as "Country of Kushans")- they asked Armenia(that on that moment was aswell in touble with the empire for a contingent for the war - and took the best warriors - those warriors didn't want to fight there but couldn't return and remaint to live somewhere
in the modern day Afghanistan(it was a quiet big group).
However - I will try to search for the texts of historians as I am not sure if I remember all really well.

Also I have to mentioned that there was no Armenian and Afghan connection during Archemanids, maybe Afghan influence over Armenian specially during Medes, but no Archeamanids you seem to be in right direction it was during Shapur's son era and I will post some info some other day. However I am not sure during Alexander most likely Armenians were involved but there is no info dating as far as that. Just during Sassanian we could say.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Nick , thank You a lot for a so detailed analysis of the mostly recent connections of Armenians and Afghans , actally it is mostly a sad history how I see(i didn't know those facts).I am not Christian but of Armenian Traditional belief(mostly related to other Aryan beliefs and aswell to Hinduism and Zoroastrism) - and it is sad for me to realize how once again a part of my nation was inside this political jokes of christianity. Actually the true Armenian spirit has nothing to do with that , our culture is strictly rooted on our homeland and traditionally we were an agricultural nation - The priciples of our life are I think not far from he Afghan ones , because when I meet Afghan people mostly we have same point of view on society and culture.
Now turning back on history - generally it seems strange that Armenian Chritians were doing so (as the Armenian Christian Church is different from thechristian mainstreem - but all is possible- every of this churches is seeking power).



What is concerning the Armenian genocide by Turks it has more national than religous motivations(the religion was just an excuse to convince the simple people to do so) - we are the original inhabitants of eastern part of nowadays turkey - the turks realized loosing one territory after the other , and as the Armenian independence movement was born quiet late and was cheated by many times as by theTurks as by western powers in a moment of weakness the Government decided to solve the future Turkish national stats borders with this genocide , this was not only the politics to non Muslim nations but to every non turkic nation( for example Sunni Kurds , Lezgins , Avars / Alevi Zazas / Shia Tolishs.. and so on) - surely the tratment of muslims was different , they tried to make turks or Azerisof them and used violence more rarly , but the aim was to create a mononational Turkey and perhaps even "Turan" , nowadays our Lezgin and Tolish neighbours are still fighting for their right on beeng recognized as Lezgins , Avars , Tolishi and so on .
Chritians and Yazdis where treated much whorse - but the aim was the same .
However I went out of the topic , forgive me fore a bit long political excursion on our homelands .
What is concerning the Achemenid period it is difficult to give a real valutation , as for example from our side no usfull scriptures are left or known today. The today known Armenian historiography strats after the rebuilt alphabet of Mesrop Mashtots(405 AD)
and is describing mostly Parthian and Sassanian times .

[Tjanaparh]

To Afghanprincess :
If You mean the recognition my the USA - actually I am not really informed and interested in this . It may be - but it is almost funny to wait how many of our people do , that one of the biggest Genocidal states in the history will be involved in bringing back justice to our nation . You have to see that under the Genocide were not only Turkish but many European(British , Geman .....) interests.
I think this is our common problem to reslove - both our nations are victims of imperial interests - may they seem agressive or pacific - hostile or friendly..but to get out of such problems the first step is to be united as a nation , to live one naations life and to be a nationalist(not in the sense of hating others but in the sense of loving your culture , respecting your ancestors , not loosing the sense of tradition and not waiting somebodies help from outside - it is a difficult way , a verry difficult and slow , but this way is the way out of dependence on others i think )

[Tjanaparh]

I have found actually some citations on the theme , but they are in Russian , so have to take time to translate them , when i will be a little less busy .

[Dreamer]

I know one or two armenians... nice people... but I keep them away from my turkish mates!

[Master Khan]

I know one or two armenians... nice people... but I keep them away from my turkish mates!

wrora you got all kind of friends.
Turkish, Armenians, Bosnians, arab, Punjabi, Pashtun etc.

[Dreamer]

^yes I like to keep myself as a man of culture...
Turks are ok and Iraqis are cool 2, funny thing is with the exception of family I dont hang out with many pashtuns

[Master Khan]

^yes I like to keep myself as a man of culture...
Turks are ok and Iraqis are cool 2, funny thing is with the exception of family I dont hang out with many pashtuns

lol Birmingham is full of Pashtuns and Afghans.
When I want to Birmingham there was lots of Pakistani shops lol, I love it there.

[Dreamer]

yea but prefer not 2 hang around with them

[Dreamer]

^nope not really but havent really mixed with pashtuns.... I have one or 2 friends who are pashtun but on the whole dont have much to do with them... its just fate that most of my friends are made up of non pashtuns... besides I did know some pashtuns when i was living in London and they put me off mixing with pashtuns for life.... Drunk, sleeping around, lieing and stealing ....

[Bengal_Tiger]

Welcome to PF Armenian guy,

I just thought I'd show an Armenian Church in Dhaka, Bangladesh.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Armenian community of Dhaka

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The Armenian Church in Armanitola



Entrance to the Armenian Church



Foundation-plaque of the Church, founded 1781


The Armenian community of Dhaka played a significant role in Bengali trade and commerce in the 17th and 18th centuries.
In the early part of 18th Century, Armenians settled in Dhaka, then one of the commercial centres in Bengal. They initially built a chapel and cemetery at Tejgagon, five miles from Dhaka. The oldest tombstone is “Avetis” an Armenian merchant who died on 15 August 1714.
Apart from Dhaka there was a significant Armenian presence in Saidabad (a suburb of the capital Murshidabad), Hoogli, Kolkata, Chinsura, Patna and Kasimbazar. A neighborhood in Dhaka - Armanitola - bears their name; there the Church of the Holy Resurrection and the cemetery established by the community in 1781 stand as major landmarks.[1][2] The records of Church of the Holy Resurrection list over 200 deaths between 1833-1918, over 250 baptisms and over 50 marriages. Their assertive presence, however, began to decline from the beginning of British rule.[3] Michael Joseph Martin (Mikel Housep Martirossian) is reported to have been the last Armenian in Dhaka.[4]
Armenians played a major role in the commercial life of Dhaka, led by the Pogoses, Agacy, Michael, Stephen, Joakim, Sarkies, Arathon (also spelled as Aratun), Coja (also spelled Khojah) and Manook (also spelled as Manuk) families. Khwaja Hafizullah, a merchant prince, laid the foundations for the Dhaka Nawab Family by accumulating wealth by doing business with Greek and Armenian merchants. This trend was followed by his nephew and the first Nawab of the family Khwaja Alimullah. Parts of the gardens of Shahbag, Ruplal House (a major landmark in the old part of Dhaka) and the land where Bangabhaban stands belonged to Armenian zamindars (landlords).[5][6][7] There is still a Manuk House inside Bangabhaban, bearing the name of the original owner's family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia...unity_of_Dhaka