Is there a direct connection between Kushans and Pashtuns?

[Tjanaparh]

Is there a direct connection between Kushans and Pashtuns?

[Toramana]

Is there a direct connection between Kushans and Pashtuns?

I think there is some connection between the two. Kushans who preceded Haphthalites left strong imprints in now mostly Pashtun inhabited areas. At least one ethnographer i.e., Gangovsky suggests modern Pashtun ethnic formation taking place as a result of Kushan/Haphthalite invasion.

[Tjanaparh]

I get a bit in difficulties, because different people express different ideas of how long do Pashtuns exist. So the Kushan/Hephthalite state existed quiet long. Armenia those days had very close relation to the Kushan state, also due to Persian politics some Armenian men fighters for ever remained in Kushan territories and supposedly assimilated.

[Toramana]

I get a bit in difficulties, because different people express different ideas of how long do Pashtuns exist. So the Kushan/Hephthalite state existed quiet long. Armenia those days had very close relation to the Kushan state, also due to Persian politics some Armenian men fighters for ever remained in Kushan territories and supposedly assimilated.

That is a possibility. Such assimilation might have well taken place in western Afghanistan.

[Tjanaparh]

Yes, however this was a small army group. I think except of genetics we won't be able to learn about this. But what about the question of Pashtun existance, when do it supposedly start? I got confused, because some say Pashtuns are quiet new as Pashtuns, some say Pashtuns are some thousands of years old.

[Tjanaparh]

However the Armenians men arrived somwhere in Zabul, but if I am not wrong later they went northways to the mountains.

[Toramana]

Yes, however this was a small army group. I think except of genetics we won't be able to learn about this. But what about the question of Pashtun existance, when do it supposedly start? I got confused, because some say Pashtuns are quiet new as Pashtuns, some say Pashtuns are some thousands of years old.

I think the prototype Pashtun ethnicity started somewhere a couple of centuries BC. Gongovsky suggests the early Iranian tribes formed the initial substratum of Pashtun ethnicity. These might have either been Sythians or Iranians earlier than Sythians. Each successive wave of invader added to it with the biggest contribution coming from Kushans-Haphthalites probably.

Pashto is a Saka language according to linguists (one language or dialect spoken by a section of Sythains).

[Toramana]

However the Armenians men arrived somwhere in Zabul, but if I am not wrong later they went northways to the mountains.

That is interesting. Do you have any sources on it?

[Toramana]

The Kushan Empire - The Story of India - BBC - YouTube

[Toramana]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

"More than a hundred years later [than the conquest of Bactria by the Da Yuezhi], the prince [xihou] of Guishuang (Badakhshan) established himself as king, and his dynasty was called that of the Guishuang (Kushan) King. He invaded Anxi (Indo-Parthia), and took the Gaofu (Kabul) region. He also defeated the whole of the kingdoms of Puda (Paktiya) and Jibin (Kapisha and Gandhara). Qiujiuque (Kujula Kadphises) was more than eighty years old when he died. His son, Yangaozhen [probably Vema Tahk(tu) or, possibly, his brother Sadaṣkaṇa], became king in his place. He defeated Tianzhu [North-western India] and installed Generals to supervise and lead it. The Yuezhi then became extremely rich. All the kingdoms call [their king] the Guishuang [Kushan] king, but the Han call them by their original name, Da Yuezhi."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara

[Tjanaparh]

I think the prototype Pashtun ethnicity started somewhere a couple of centuries BC. Gongovsky suggests the early Iranian tribes formed the initial substratum. These might have been Sythians or Iranians earlier than Sythians. Each successive wave of invader added to it with the biggest contribution coming from Kushans-Haphthalites probably.

Pashto is a Saka language according to linguists (one language or dialect spoken by a section of Sythains).

Ok - with te language I knew it.
Hephthalites now are somehow uncertain if Iranic or Takhar or am I wrong? In the first case generally the Saka language would be somehow close, in the second the Takhar language is known to be quiet different. Interesting if there are comparings between Takharian and Pashto?

[Tjanaparh]

That is interesting. Do you have any sources on it?

My sources are not the most reliable.
Generally I personally read the "Hitory of Armenia" of Movses from Khorena, but other ancient historians also describe a lot the Kushan.
The problem is, ancient and medieval Armenian historians are quiet politized and lacked good knowledge of Afghanistans polupation, so everybdy from approximately Afghanistan is called Kushan , even in times where this name was not existing or even in situations where turkmen tribes are described.

[Tjanaparh]

Armenians appeared in Afghanistan mostly due to Persian empire. In different ways. First of all Kushan rulers and Arshakid rulers were somehow relatives - so after Ardeshirs victory in Persia, the Armenian Arshakids and the Kushans interacted a lot on how to resolve the situation. Later Sasanids used Armenian toops against Kushans, and the Armenians didn't want to fight against their brothers and went on the Kushans side, so many hhad no possibility to return and stood there.

[Toramana]

Early precursors to some of the Pashtuns may have been old Iranian tribes that spread throughout the eastern Iranian plateau.[48] According to the Russian scholar Yu. V. Gankovsky, the Pashtuns probably began as a "union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalites (White Huns) confederacy." He proposes Kushan-o-Ephthalite origin for Pashtuns[49][50] but others draw a different conclusion. Some oriental scholars hold that the second largest Pasthun tribe, the Ghilzais, are the descendants of a mixed race of Hephthalite and Pakhtas who have been living in Afghanistan since the Vedic Aryan period.[39]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtuns

[Tjanaparh]

Yes, that is why it would be so interesting to make closer studies on eastern Iranian languages connection, on the local indeuropean but not Iranic languages and so on...