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Hephthalites same as Afghan Abdaliate tribe

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  • Hephthalites same as Afghan Abdaliate tribe

    Afghan Hephthalites


    The paucity of record in Huns provides us fragmentary picture of their civilization and empire. Their background is uncertain. Its not known where did the word Hun, and its not known if it’s a race ethnic or a name. It could of derived from Indo-European word for Hunus, (Sanskriti for hundreds) Hundas, (Iranic word for Measurement) Hundred, (English word for 100). One thing is for sure the Huns were a confederation of central Asian tribes of diverse origin who appeared in different parts of Eurasia with their own kingdome and they were never counted as one group. Its not clear if the Huns ever called themselves Huns. It was until the end of 4th century that Europeans experienced beginning with Attila who reigned Europe from 455-453 AD, who could be one of Hephthalite descends who united other tribes along with him going towards west. Many nations have tried to assert themselves as ethnic or cultural successors to the Huns, but as for Afghans they never asserted and nor they ever argued themselves to be Huns. The facts that were gathered by Persians, Indians, Chinese, Balkens, Europeans, and Central Asian, we have come to know that Afghans played a big game in their Pre-Islamic times more then ever.



    The root to European Huns could more or less be the Hephthalites, Ephthalites, abadhdalites, Abadhalite, Abadali has all the same meaning, it was the name given by Byzantine historians, they are also known as the White Huns. According Russian scholar Yu V. Gankovsky, from his book A History of Afghanistan: “My opinion is that the formation of the union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis dates from the middle of the first millennium AD and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalite (White Huns) confederacy. In the areas north of the Hindu Kush some of the tribes of this confederacy participated in the formation of the nationalities who inhabit Middle Asia”. Ephthalites were Eastern Iranian people from tribe of Ephthlie (Or Abadhali), living in present-day Afghanistan speaking Eastern Iranian language (Bactrian, Scythian, Avestaian or Pashtu/Afghan). Ephthalites are one of the other biggest tribe of Afghanistan known as Abadhali.

    The Hephthalites history goes back during conflicts with Kushan rule and Hephathalites being supporters of Sassanian, (220 AD). It was around end of Kushani rule (250 AD) that first conflicts were made with Sassanians who already captured western parts of Kushani Empire. From 300 –390 the Ephthalite tribe changed hands with Kushanshahi’s, Kidarites, Sassanians or Kushans. They remained calm until 400 AD. From 400 AD-440 AD Hephthalite tribe took control of Eastern Iran from Kidarites driving them to Peshawar near the Indian border where the Kidarites would recover (455-470 AD) and this time attacked Gupta Empire at the death of Gupta emperor taking control of northern India for 30 years (470-500AD).

    From 450-480 AD the Hephthalites further took Sogdian (Samarkand), and Bokhara to the north. The Hephthalites moved closer and closer toward Persian territory, in 484 the Hephthalite chief Akhshunwar led his army attacked the Sassanian King Peroz (459-484) and the king was defeated and killed in Khurasan having captured Tehran to the west. The Hephthalites, at the time, became the superpower of the Middle Asia. They did not only destroyed part of Sassanian Empire in Iran but also intervened in their dynastic struggles when the Sassanid royal, Kavad (488-496), was fighting for the throne with Balash, brother of Peroz. Kavad married the niece of the Hephthalites chief and the Hephthalites aided him to regain his crown in 498. The Hephthalites chose Badakshan as their summer residence. Their chiefs lived north of the Hindu Kush, migrating seasonally from Bactria where they spent the winter.

    With the stabilization at the western and northern border, the Hephthalites extended their influence to the North-East inoto the Tarim Basin and border of China. From 493 to 556 A.D., they invaded Khotan, Kashgar, Kocho, and Karashahr. The relationship with Juan-juan and China were tightened. The Chinese record indicated that between 507 and 531, the Hephthalites sent thirteen embassies to Northern Wei (439-534) by the king named Ye-dai-yi-li-tuo.

    From 570-500 Kidarites remained to control northern India, Hephthalites had little worry about Eastern border it was then that Hephthalites had to face the strong Gupta Empire of India who recaptured power from Kidarites. From 505-520 AD Ephthalites joined hands with Kidarites and invaded India, they are also known as Indo-Hephthalites, or Alchons. The Indo-Hephthalites remained control of Northern India until 600 AD.

    Between 557 to 561 Persian King Chosroes allied with A Turkic tribe from central Asia or Turkistan region. Chorsoes wanted to profit from the situation to take revenge over the defeat of his grandfather Peroz; he married a daughter of the nomadic chief and allied himself with them against the Hephthalite tribe. The chief Sinjibu was the strongest Turkic tribes and he had the largest number of troops. Attacked on the two sides, from the north by Turks and from the west by Sassanians the Hephthalite Empire were completely broken and surrendered, by 565 only the small Indo-Hephthalite Independent Kingdome survived in Northern India. Some surviving groups to the Oxus did not surrendered and escaped Chosroes' grasp fled to the west and may have been the ancestors of the later Avars in the Danube region. Another era was opening in Central Asia. For the allies of Chosroes were Turks, a new power was to dominate the central Asia for next few centuries.

    Life Style:
    Very little was known about these Hephthalite tribe. Little art has left from them. According to Sung Yun and Hui Sheng who visited their Hephthalite chief at his summer residence in Badakshan and later in Gandhara,"The Hephthalites have no cities, but roam freely and live in tents. They do not live in towns; their seat of government is a moving camp. They move in search of water and pasture, journeying in summer to cool places and in winter to warmer ones....They have no belief in the Buddhist law and they serve a great number of divinities." Other than the deformation of skulls, the other interesting feature of the Hephthalites is their male dominant society, polyandrous society. The records of brothers marrying to one wife had been reported from Chinese source.
    The records of brothers marrying to one wife or polyandrous has been understood wrong by westerners. Women had almost no rule in Hephthalites time and nor did it ever did in history of Afghanistan. Polyandry from Greek word “poly” means many, and “andros” means man. Which can be looked at two ways, a female forming a stable sexual union with more than one male (which is a bizarre and strange way of living), or a woman with many past husbands. To say that Polyandry existed among Hephthalites where many brothers altogether married with one woman which means women enjoying greater freedom to choose and divorce is next to impossible in Hephthalites time when we know the fact that Ephthalites were male dominant society.
    The type of Polyandry that was practiced by Ephthalites is type of fraternal polyandry where two brothers shared one wife, and that only happened when the first brother is either killed or disappeared. This tradition is only practiced by Afghans, where a women loses her husband, in Afghan tradition, the Sister in-law has the right to choose any of her brother-in-laws as her new husband, (After) her first husband past away and if the husband doesn’t have a brother, cousins (From father’s side) are the target. In recent years it has been the case with many Afghan women who lost their husbands during soviet and civil wars.

    The Language:
    The Hephthalites spoked Eastern Iranian language, there is debate however it could be Takhari/Tokhari or Pashtu. According to Japanese researcher Kazuo Enoki’s research On the Nationality of the Ephthalites: Enoki notes that Procopius' comments on their appearance while not decisive, are in favor of an Iranian theory. Similarly, the seventh century travels of Hsuan Chwang show that he found no physical difference between the descendants of the Ephthalites and their known Iranian neighbours. As for their language, commentators made clear that it was neither Turkish nor Mongol, which also seems to support an Eastern Iranian origin. At the same time there is numismatic and epigraphic evidence to show that a debased form of the old Italic alphabet was used by the Hephthalites. Since the Kushan had close economic ties with Rome they also used old Italic when conquested by Hephthalites, it is possible they retained many aspects of Kushan culture, including the adoption of the Old Italic alphabet.

    The Religion:
    It is equally inconsistent while comparing the references to the Hephthalites' religion. Although Sung Yun and Hui Sheng reported that the Hephthalites did not believe in Buddhism, though there is ample archaeological evidence that this religion was practiced in territories under Hephthalite control. According to Liang shu the Hephthalites worshiped Heaven and also fire - a clear reference to Zoroastrianism.
    Last edited by Nick; 06-26-2010, 11:30 PM.
    Happy Ramadan everyone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dym5AVwvc7c&feature=related]‫نشيد (زين الشهور) كااااملة || Zain Ramadan Nasheed-Full Version‬‎ - YouTube[/url]

  • #2
    Originally posted by PashtunQueen
    wow this is amazing information. How accurate is it though? Aren't Abdali tribe Sadozais?
    Sadozai is one of many sub tribe of Popali or Popalzai

    Abdaliate is not a small tribe .... Abdaliates are millions of people who share common roots. Abdaliates or durrani contains 9 mega tribes and divided into 2 branches

    Zehrak is one of the major tribal branch that has shaped the last Afghan Empire. Majority of them are located in the “East”, however Popal can be found in Kandahar more then anywhere else.
    1. Barakhzi (Barakzai)
    2. Popalzi (Popalzai)
    3. Alikohzi (Alikhozai)
    4. Atsakzi (Achakzai)


    Panjpai or “Five Remainings” are often called “Westerners” from biggest to smallest in terms of population.

    1. Sagzi (Sakzai)
    2. Norzi (Noorzai/Nurzai)
    3. Khughiani (Khoghiyani)
    4. Isakzi (Eshaqzai)
    5. Alizi (Alizai)

    So here we have Isakzi/Sagzi all in Panjpai a total of at least 4 million people majority Pashtu/Dari speaking and also Atsakzi being solo-Pashtu speaking which today summed are part of British created nation of Pakistan.
    Don’t forget Ghalzai also has tribes under the same name “Sagzi” and etc.


    The smallest tribe Alizai is a about 700,000 and if you add Popalzai, Nurzai, and Baraki alone is more then 10 million
    Last edited by Nick; 06-23-2010, 01:35 PM.
    Happy Ramadan everyone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dym5AVwvc7c&feature=related]‫نشيد (زين الشهور) كااااملة || Zain Ramadan Nasheed-Full Version‬‎ - YouTube[/url]

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    • #3
      Originally posted by heratigirl
      ^10 MILLION????

      so what is the worldwide pashtin population?
      I said Popalzai, Nurzai, and Baraki combined is more than 10 million.

      Pashtu speaking population world-wide is maybe around 35-45 million but if we count all of those claiming to be from Afghan root may increase to 70 million (USA/Canada/Australia/Iran/UEA/Saudi/Europe/Pakistan/Afghanistan) if we include Mythical "Afghan" ie Pathans of India/Bangladesh or other parts of the world it could reach 90 million.
      Last edited by Nick; 06-23-2010, 02:17 PM.
      Happy Ramadan everyone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dym5AVwvc7c&feature=related]‫نشيد (زين الشهور) كااااملة || Zain Ramadan Nasheed-Full Version‬‎ - YouTube[/url]

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nick View Post
        Sadozai is one of many sub tribe of Popali or Popalzai
        Correction needed in Panjpai Durranis;

        There is no tribe by the name of SAKZAI or SAGZAI.
        Eshaqzai/Isakzai is mostly pronounced Sagzai/Sakzai in South and South western Afghanistan.

        The fifth tribe in Panjpai Durranis is "Makwanai" or "MAKO" who live in Herat,Ghor and Badghis.

        Also,the term Khogyanai is written and pronounced KHOZHYANAI in.The reason for G or GH is that to Peshawri Pashto pronunciation and replacement of ZH with G or GH.
        Last edited by Guest; 06-23-2010, 04:17 PM.

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        • #5
          this is a russian theorie ,but an interesting uppload.
          i feel not warm with tribes etc that are not directly from the near of my house(afghanistan) because the hephtalits are ,was in turkey named in the bibel etc.
          they try to conect the name hephtalits with abdalids but very interesting theorie always exciting to read stuff like that
          ps:sorry for my bad english

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Millatpal Noorzai View Post
            Correction needed in Panjpai Durranis;

            There is no tribe by the name of SAKZAI or SAGZAI.
            Sakzai Durani Pashtuns are a tribe from Hilmand and western Kandahar.

            see http://www.alamahabibi.com/English%2...%5CSeistan.htm

            Abdul Hai Habibi

            Thousands of years ago a group of people came to the land of the great and mighty southern rivers of present day Seistan. These people were the Saks, whose progeny, under the name of Sakzai, still live along the banks of the Helmand River.
            The Saks were a brave and robust people. The land where they settled came to be known as Sakistan which was Arabized as Sajistan and later it became Seistan. Arab conquerors called the people of Seistan Sajzi, which is the Arabized form of Sakzai. The Sakzai still live in this area, as far as the western parts of Kandahar and Bost. They are a tall and lanky people with a tanned complexion and speak the Pashto language. They are considered to be a part of the great Durrani tribe. The Sakzai built mighty civilizations and large cities and formed an effective system of government in this land.
            The Seistan wetland covers an area of about 150,000 square miles into which four rivers, the Helmand, Khash Rud, Farah Rud and Harut Rud empty. To the south of this wetland lies the Gaud-e Zerreh, another marshy wetland. The desert in between covers an area of roughly 150 by 100 miles. The Farah Rud composed the northern boundary of this parcel of land where Peshawaran and Takht-e Rustam are located. Dasht-e Zerreh forms the southern boundary of this area. Remnants of ancient civilizations are evident in every direction of this vast land. Thousands of mounds and remains of ancient fortresses are seen here that have been destroyed by weathering turning this great civilization into an abode of insects and reptiles. Millions of ancient relics are buried under the rubble of the great cities of Seistan. It is not clear what led to the destruction of these cities. The area with hundreds of thousands inhabitants was one of the most important center of civilization in Asia. Zaranj, the major city of Sakistan, rivaled with Baghdad at the time. No one now lives in ancient Zaranj and the area has turned into a jungle of reeds.
            Sakistan was the home of great heroes, kings, scholars and establishers of new religions. Under the rubble of each fallen wall countless cultural relics are hidden. The legendary heroes, Rustam and Yakub were raised in this land. Sajistanians, the inhabitants of this land, played a major role in the development of Islamic sciences and were the founders of the respected Seistan religion. Early Dari (Persian) poets recited their poetry in the court of Yakub Safari in Zaranj and an important part of the odes of Shahnama (Book of Kings) is composed from the fables of Seistan. The most ancient Persian book of prose, Keshf-al-Majoob, was written with Seistani penmanship. Members of the social group of this land, known as Ayaran, formed political and social groups and they gave rise to leaders such as Yakub and Omar, whose fame spread as far as Baghdad and Damascus.
            Unfortunately, this cradle of civilization was completely obliterated. Its population was decimated by the Mongol hordes to the extent that when the Englishman, Sir Goldsmith, visited the area in 1872 he reported there were only 45,000 people residing in this vast stretch of land. Thirty years later while Sir MacMohan was delineating the Afghan-Iranian border, according to Tate, the total population of the area was 161,000 people only. (Tate, The Baluchistan Borders).
            Last edited by آريا; 06-25-2010, 04:28 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by آريا View Post
              Sakzai Durani Pashtuns are a tribe from Hilmand and western Kandahar.

              see http://www.alamahabibi.com/English%2...%5CSeistan.htm


              I have too many relatives amongst ISHAQZAIS,the genuine term used for the identification of this particular tribe is ISHAQZAI not SAKZAI.
              If SAKZAI is a different tribe then where are ISHAQZAIS,do they even exist,if yes where and who are they related to?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Millatpal Noorzai View Post
                I have too many relatives amongst ISHAQZAIS,the genuine term used for the identification of this particular tribe is ISHAQZAI not SAKZAI.
                If SAKZAI is a different tribe then where are ISHAQZAIS,do they even exist,if yes where and who are they related to?
                Ao, staa khabera rishtya da SAKZI=ISHAAQZI, zeka cheh zineh khalek SAKZEYO ta ISHAAQZI ham waayi.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Millatpal Noorzai View Post
                  Correction needed in Panjpai Durranis;

                  There is no tribe by the name of SAKZAI or SAGZAI.
                  Eshaqzai/Isakzai is mostly pronounced Sagzai/Sakzai in South and South western Afghanistan.

                  The fifth tribe in Panjpai Durranis is "Makwanai" or "MAKO" who live in Herat,Ghor and Badghis.

                  Also,the term Khogyanai is written and pronounced KHOZHYANAI in.The reason for G or GH is that to Peshawri Pashto pronunciation and replacement of ZH with G or GH.
                  Dear Noorzai There are couple of Sakzai which I know, and I am saying this of being 100% sure because one of our relative my Grandmother side was Ghalzai-Sakzai tribe. yep Sakzai in Ghalzai also interesting Just like Durranis, the Hottaks also has Ishaqzai with exact pronouncation. Are they related, not related is irrelevant the fact that there are many tribes who unite with one and there are those who unite with another. How close those tribes may or may not be is up knowing to Allah. From what we know the tribes with millions of population cannot be sum into being born 1000 years ago, but rather much other. So its very hard to keep track of tribes specially if there are all over South East Asia, from historical account we cannot depend on one story, or Myth. The Example is the famous theory of Yousufzi before Islam Asufhozi, were recorded to be natives of Kabulistan before Arrival of Islam. The Book which mentions this tribe is dated to be 400 BCE.


                  Yes there is a Sakzai in Durrani and I don't think Ishaqzai is same as Sagzai which another spelling.

                  I think Mr.Aria just mention they are mostly in Western and North-Western Afghanistan. Majority of them ARE non-Pashtu speaking, which is why you don't hear them out often.



                  Originally posted by Millatpal Noorzai View Post
                  I have too many relatives amongst ISHAQZAIS,the genuine term used for the identification of this particular tribe is ISHAQZAI not SAKZAI.
                  If SAKZAI is a different tribe then where are ISHAQZAIS,do they even exist,if yes where and who are they related to?
                  Yes the Ishaqzai do exists, but I believe they are mostly out there scattered. I also believe they maybe same as Sakzai branch, however some researchers have given origin of Ishaqzais being different from other Sakzai clans. According to one source Ishaqzais are majority Sayyed and they trances to be descendants of Ishaq Ibn Rahawah Native of Afghanistan who was friend or companion of Mohammad Ibn Ismail (Al Bukhari) an Arabic speaking true Sayyed born in Bukhara. Musazai and Omarzai claims to be Grandchildren of Al Bukhari, because the children of Eshaq and Al Bukhari were married. I am not sure how or when and why. But this is one of those theories which some say yes and take pride and some say no and make a different references, and there are others like myself who is unsure and things like these are irrelevant to me.
                  Last edited by Nick; 06-26-2010, 01:36 AM.
                  Happy Ramadan everyone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dym5AVwvc7c&feature=related]‫نشيد (زين الشهور) كااااملة || Zain Ramadan Nasheed-Full Version‬‎ - YouTube[/url]

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by آريا View Post
                    Sakzai Durani Pashtuns are a tribe from Hilmand and western Kandahar.

                    see http://www.alamahabibi.com/English%2...%5CSeistan.htm
                    Aria thanks for the Link and welcome to the forum.
                    Happy Ramadan everyone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dym5AVwvc7c&feature=related]‫نشيد (زين الشهور) كااااملة || Zain Ramadan Nasheed-Full Version‬‎ - YouTube[/url]

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