who are brahui people?

[Karachi]

who are brahui people of balochistan part of pakistan, afghanistan, iran???

They are said to be dravidian people, some people say they are the oldest people living there since the indus valley times, other theories include that they came later from south india and settled in balochistan. no one knows for sure, its a mystery!

Their language and culture are really interesting

their famous folk singer, langauge is apprantly dravidian:

‪Akhtar Chanal Balochi folk singer of Pakistan post by Zagham‬‏ - YouTube[/URL]

[gadoonwal]

Where did you get the info ?
wiki is not the right source sometime.
Brahvi are fair skin and part of baluchi ethnicity.
They are not drvadain.
There are brahi tribe speak both brahvi and baluchis.
Some only speak baluchi.

[Karachi]

^ its not only wikepdia that says that, their language is classfied as dravdian, this is the map of dravdian languages:



The ethnonym "Brahui" is a very old term and a purely Dravidian one.[2] The fact that other Dravidian languages only exist further south in India has led to several specualations about the orgins of the Brahui. There are three hypotheses regarding the Brahui that have been proposed by academics. One theory is that the Brahui as a relic population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread. Another theory is that they migrated to Baluchistan from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.[3] More established theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from central India after 1000 CE. The absence of any older Iranian (Avestan) influence in Brahui supports this hypothesis. The main Iranian contributor to Brahui vocabulary is a western Iranian language like Kurdish.[4]

Over the centuries, due to their location, the Brahui have mixed with Iranian peoples as well as the Sindhis, among other Indo-Aryan peoples. They culturally resemble their Baloch and Sindhi neighbors, although they still continue to speak their Brahui language

[یاسمینه]

According to: Die etnische Gruppem Afghanistans by E.Orywal

Other names:
Brahui, Brahwi, Brohi.
Number of Brahui language speakers:
10.000 P.Snoy, in: W.Kraus, 1972: 181.
200.000 L.Dupree, 1973: Chart 6.
19.000 R.V. Weekes, 1978: Appendix 1.
Location:
Southern Nimruz, region Surawak in southeastern Kandahar, nomadic groups in Gulran (Herat Province), eastern province of Farah and City of Herat.
Language:
Brahui
Religion:
Sunni

According to:Afghanistan in 1989 in Sociolinguistic Perspective by J. Pstrusinska:

Language: Brahui (Brohi, Barawi)
Classification: Dravidian family, northern group
Dialects spoken in Afghanistan: unknown
Speakers: Brahui (some Baluch?)
Estimation of number of speakers: less than 100.000
Role: local
Teritory: provinces of Nimruz and Kandahar, nomadic groups also in the provinces of Herat and Farah.

[Nick]

I would like to classify them as jats but they could be native or remains of Assyrians or ancestors of true persians the drividian speakers of greater old Parsia their drividian civilization existed between 4000 BCE-1000BCE. Although their Maximum expansion was up to Jeruf and that would be southern dry deserts of modern edges of Karman province. However a theory that they might have migrated from South India, another being native Indus valley or 3rd one most recent maybe remains of Persian immigrants.

[Karachi]

^ so persians were dravdians??? people say indus valley was dravidian, but never heard about the persian connection

are you talking about elamo-dravidian connection?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamo-Dravidian_languages

[Nick]

^ so persians were dravdians??? people say indus valley was dravidian, but never heard about the persian connection

are you talking about elamo-dravidian connection?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamo-Dravidian_languages

Well yes its not just an small settler town Karachi but rather a vast civilization non-indic independent society that covered from Akkad to deserts of kavir and Karman some say extended into Balochistan but that's just lies and fake wiki BS from ground no such connection has been found in 2008 Karman was their most expanded areas ie Jiruf civilization was also ignored by the Shah of Iran. However no prove has been found past the iranian desert of Afghan-Iran and Pakistan borders. Yet that the Elam civilization capital at susa Pars province was discovered long ago with large number of artifacts as well as writing tablets however the shah of Iran being pan-Nazi and promoting Aryanism have ignored the true persian history and true iranian identity. Perhaps one day if more future studies are made the Aryan mystery would also be solved. Some history already rejected this "pure white race" called LAryan".

Also keep in mind brother your source of wikipedia is not reliable since large number of persian wikipedians the attitude towards Iran=Aryan so therefore wikipedia articles in regards to Iran is not reliable.
However the Persian Elamic civilization or to say the true Iranian civilization has nothing to due with those of south Asia. However there is a theory that large number of south indians passed sindh and made Persia their new home. However the fact that Elamics have written system adapted from egypt and where as south Asians so far not such sophisticated written system been found and if even if so classified as dravidian but periods are 1000-2000 years apart.

[آريا]

Interestingly many major Brahui tribes have Pashto names like Bangulzai, Alizai, Kiazai, Moosazai, Khwajakhel and Sanjarzai etc.

[kurd123]

More than a thousand years before the creation of Pakistan, the Baluch left their Kurdish brethren in the mountains of modern-day Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran, and migrated to modern-day Baluchistan. Today, like the Kurds, the Baluch are spread across several countries; there are roughly 5 million Baluch in Pakistan, 1.5 million in Iran, and another million in Afghanistan. Also like the Kurds, they speak a language classified in the Iranian group of Indo-European languages. (In Pakistan, most Baluchis speak Baluchi, while some speak a Dravidian language known as Brahui.) In each country, the language bears heavy accretions of the dominant tongue: in Pakistan, it is laced with Urdu; in Afghanistan, with Dari; and in Iran, with Persian. “Baluchis are not ruling anywhere right now, so even our language is trampled on,” explained Ghaffar Hoth, the naib nazim, or deputy mayor, of Gwadar District.

Articles - Waiting for the Worst: Baluchistan, 2006 - Balochvoice

Balochi people claims, I can't not back it up via independent sources, however I did look at the tribe names on the the people in question and some of them are similar to Kurdish tribes, especially the 'Badini' tribe.

[بصير]

More than a thousand years before the creation of Pakistan, the Baluch left their Kurdish brethren in the mountains of modern-day Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran, and migrated to modern-day Baluchistan. Today, like the Kurds, the Baluch are spread across several countries; there are roughly 5 million Baluch in Pakistan, 1.5 million in Iran, and another million in Afghanistan. Also like the Kurds, they speak a language classified in the Iranian group of Indo-European languages. (In Pakistan, most Baluchis speak Baluchi, while some speak a Dravidian language known as Brahui.) In each country, the language bears heavy accretions of the dominant tongue: in Pakistan, it is laced with Urdu; in Afghanistan, with Dari; and in Iran, with Persian. “Baluchis are not ruling anywhere right now, so even our language is trampled on,” explained Ghaffar Hoth, the naib nazim, or deputy mayor, of Gwadar District.

Articles - Waiting for the Worst: Baluchistan, 2006 - Balochvoice

Balochi people claims, I can't not back it up via independent sources, however I did look at the tribe names on the the people in question and some of them are similar to Kurdish tribes, especially the 'Badini' tribe.

The claim is corroborated in principle by Linguistics; the Baluchi language is categorized in the North-Western branch of the Iranian tree, the same branch as Kurdish as the Linguistic affinity between Baluchi and the Western languages like Kurdish is greater than its affinity with languages in the Eastern Branch.

[kurd123]

The claim is corroborated in principle by Linguistics; the Baluchi language is categorized in the North-Western branch of the Iranian tree, the same branch as Kurdish and the Linguistic affinity between Baluchi and the Western languages like Kurdish is greater than its affinity with languages in the Eastern Branch.

Yeah that is true, the two languages are very similar, although balochi has been influenced by local languages such as urdo, and I personally don't understand them when they speak it (From listening to their music) but when it's written, I can understand some words.

I don't really know much about the baloch, and the same can be said about most Kurds.. but they seem to know about Kurds, maybe becuase they were originally Kurds that migrated east?

[بصير]

Yeah that is true, the two languages are very similar, although balochi has been influenced by local languages such as urdo, and I personally don't understand them when they speak it (From listening to their music) but when it's written, I can understand some words.

I don't really know much about the baloch, and the same can be said about most Kurds.. but they seem to know about Kurds, maybe becuase they were originally Kurds that migrated east?

Yes its possible the Baluch atleast initially were part of some Proto Kurd group; however, Kurdish dialects, although different morphologically to the point that they are mostly mutually unintelligible, are still interrelated insofar as they can still be grouped together and holistically distinguished from other languages in the branch but this doesnt seem to apply to Baluchi. Im not quite sure about their own oral history.

[retro]

Mr Kurd

Whilst their are similarities in terms of tribal structure between Kurds and Balochs. Whilst Kurds are more similar genetically to other West Asians than Central Asians. The Kurds a fairly distinctive peoples and are some what removed from other West Asians. In fact Kurds are genetically very much south West Asian types. Which could even be why Kurdish culture has retained certain non-Persian, Asian influences.

Structure in West Asian Indo-European groups

Dodecad Ancestry Project: Structure in West Asian Indo-European groups

Baloch of Iran are it seems are genetically very close to Baloch and Brahui of Pakistan.

Why the Baloch are more like the Brahui genetically than vice versa

If I’m not mistaken in the genetic studies done the Baloch and Brahui are basically identical to one another and I remember Thorfinn querying whether this was the Baloch influencing the Brahui or vice-versa. I think reading through Baloch & Brahui history, which is extremely interesting, it seems that Baloch identity is more political and tribal than lineal and genetic as compared to the Pathans. So the likelihood for the similarity between the Brahui and Baloch is that the Baloch assimilated large numbers of Brahuis during the period of their tribal ascendancy, which was then disrupted by civil war. It seems Baloch identity was more fluid, flexible and adaptible, which could account for their greater numbers however the Brahui-Dravidian state of the “Khan of Kalat” remained the predominant power after the Baloch civil war in the 1500′s.


Pashtun tribes usually claim descent from a common ancestor and recognize a familial-like bond within their division, clan, and tribe. They also recognize a very strict common set of characteristics that make one a Pashtun, including speaking Pashtu and following the Pashtun code or Pashtunwali. The Baluch on the other hand define their tribe according to more political and geographic criteria: loyalty to an authority and common location. Anyone choosing to live under the authority of the tribal chief can be considered a part of the tribe.


Kurd (aka Kurt): The Kurds are thought to be identifiable with the Kurds currently located in northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and southern Turkey. They were reportedly induced (presumably by the Shah of Persia) to settle in Sarhad, Sistan va Baluchestan in order to keep the Baluch in check. However, they got along relatively well with the Baluch and conducted raids against Persian as well as Baluch territory. While acknowledging their Kurdish origins, they now refer to themselves as Baluch.

“Welding together tribes” and forming external alliances that allowed the Brahui Khan of Kalat and his forces to maintain significant levels of control over the larger, more populous Baluch and Pashtun tribes found in Baluchistan. Their position, alone, in Kalat allowed the Brahui to split the two large Baluch tribal divisions and this system provided much of the stability that made Baluchistan far more governable than nearby Afghanistan.

The British who dealt with the Baluch from the mid-1800s to mid-1900s saw both the western and eastern Baluch as easier to manage than the Pashtun tribes to the north and northeast. Stereotypes of the independent, egalitarian Pashtun with a strong sense of Pashtun identity contrast with those of the less independent, more hierarchical Baluch who mix more freely with other tribes. The stereotypes still exist, even among the Baluch and Pashtuns themselves.

The name Brahui means “highlander,” as opposed to Narui (Baluch) “lowlander.” They are divided into a number of tribes or khels (kheil) and are a wandering, unsettled nation. The Brahui always reside in one part of the country in summer and in another during the winter; they likewise change their immediate places of residence many times every year in quest of pasturage for their flocks – a practice which is rare among the Baluch tribes.

As of 1981, approximately half of the Baluch resided in Baluchistan Province. A high percentage resided in Punjab and Sindh Provinces
and Sistan va Baluchestan Province, Iran, and fewer lived in Nimruz, Helmand, Badghis, and Jowzjan Provinces, Afghanistan and the North- West Frontier Province, Pakistan. Some have migrated to the Middle East, primarily to Oman, and Baluch speakers can be found in Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. As of the early 1900s, one quarter of the population of Sindh Province was estimated to be Baluch. As of the late 1800s, the Baluch held most of Dera Ghazi Khan District, Punjab Province. However, as of the early 1900s, the Baluch living to the east of the Indus River in Sindh and Punjab no longer spoke the Baluchi language and had more or less assimilated with their neighbors.

An outsider wishing to join a Baluch tribe or section first moves into a Baluch tribe’s area, shares in the tribe’s good and ill fortune, is eventually able to obtain tribal land, and is fully admitted upon marrying a woman from the tribe. The tendency of Baluch tribes to take on outside groups or members, and likewise for groups or members to leave one tribe for another, makes establishing a basis for a tribal hierarchy difficult. One often encounters the same sub-element split between two or more tribes. To further complicate matters, elements sometimes change their names or take on the name of their host, even in the case where they are not ethnically Baluch. In many parts of Baluchistan, it is popular to be considered a Baluch, so non-Baluch will sometimes take on Baluch tribal names, and after many years, may become considered as such. For example, Gichkis, Khetrans, and Nausherwanis are considered to be of non-Baluch origin (Khetrans do not even speak Baluchi), and yet multiple sources list them as Baluch in tribal hierarchies.

{ Brown Pundits } » Why the Baloch are more like the Brahui genetically than vice versa

[Karachi]

on harrapa dna project they actually tested a lot of brahui and baloch dna samples: http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/br...g-old-not-new/

^ the results so far are indicating that brahui and baloch people are almost identical in DNA, which means that brahui people could be actually native to Baluchistan rather then coming from south india.

^ this also indicates that brahui people might have been the survivers of the the dravdian speakers that existed in the whole indus valley/Baluchistan/eastern Iran area some 5000 years ago.

one thing we have to keep in mind is that terms like dravdian or aryan are cultural/language terms rather then genetic terms, a person living in south india is not the same as brahui living in baluchistan(dna wise) but they might both speak dravdian language

[Karachi]

who are brahui people of balochistan part of pakistan, afghanistan, iran???

They are said to be dravidian people, some people say they are the oldest people living there since the indus valley times, other theories include that they came later from south india and settled in balochistan. no one knows for sure, its a mystery!

Their language and culture are really interesting

their famous folk singer, langauge is apprantly dravidian:

‪Akhtar Chanal Balochi folk singer of Pakistan post by Zagham‬‏ - YouTube[/URL]

the first song is so beautiful. keep listening to it over and over