Separatist Billboards

[randolph85]

The Islamic aspirations of Afghans are to eventually help to create a Khilafa. Both, Taliban and Hizb e Islami want to contribute to the creation of a Khilafa. If you read Taliban literature, there is a significant reference to the ultimate goal.

literature means nothing to me. if i read george bush lit, and that alone, i would think this was a great man. its actions that define a movement, not words. in the 7 years of taliban rule, there was nothing in their actions that contributed towards anything other than perceived islamic rule in afghanistan. read mullah zaeefs book where mullah omar assured the chinese dignitary that afghanistan would not harbor uighur muslim militants in afghanistan.

Yes, being economically weak does not mean one have to settle for less and be content with a system that is totally against Islam.

my original response to u was based on ur response. afghanistans standing in the region was weak and small, so naturally this shouldnt of affected any islamic nationalist movements within pakistan which was/is much larger.

Wrong. He never paid any tribe a dime. In fact, when many tribes suffered losses and damages due to his policy he didn't even wanted to meet the tribal elders after he received his independence.

But when the Ghaljay tribes and the Tajiks created an uprising against him in the late 1920's then he sent for those very same tribal elders he refused to meet to beg them to help him and his Kandahari tribes so he can return back to Kabul and capture his throne.

i dont think u understand how the afghan power structure has worked for the last 200 years. tribes have been payed favors for their loyalties, whether it be money, land, exemption from joining the military, or otherwise. the tribes did not spontaniously rise up against the british, they had the OK from kabul. this policy was in effect until the last days of zahir shah.

You don't think so, but read British history of India. They were trembling in Dehli when the first few garrisons were ransacked and over 5.000 British troops were massacred in Waziristan, Derra Ismail Khan, Jhob and adjacent areas.

The tribes considered Amanullah as their ruler and they accepted his order to fight. Because he said that he wanted an independent Afghanistan. |For the tribesmen on the other side of the Durrand Line, Afghanistan was all the way to Attock. Not the Durrand Line. This is why they accepted his orders and obeyed him. They did not sacrifice their lives so that they remain slaves of British India and Amanullah Khan could have his own independence.

show me some references to the brits trembling in dehli. i have no doubt they were taken by surprise and humiliated, but the idea that these tribesmen would somehow affect the power structure of the whole of british india is laughable. amanullah himself wrote the british after afghanistan was bombed by planes, complaining of the dishonorable act.

Where did I make such a claim? They want an Islamic state in Pakistan. Thats what I said. And if you listen to their talks and their interviews, they always emphasize the need for an Islamic government in Pakistan.

Furthermore, they have reiterated on numerous occasions that they do not recognize any borders between the Muslim lands. And they justified their attacks on Americans on Afghan soil by saying that they do not recognize the political borders.

You should watch their videos and listen to their talks when they discuss Pakistani politics. Their main problem is the Pakistani kufri government. This is why they are fighting the government.

And the Pakistani Taliban are not the only Islamic movment against the government. There are many other groups, scholars, individuals, Islamic movements who all have one common interest. Namely the overthrow of the Pakistani secular government.

There is plenty of literature and talks on this subject in Urdu & Pashto on Youtube and other websites.

if the paki taliban say they do not recognize political borders, then why do the afghan taliban say what happens in pakistan is a paki matter? they speak the same language of retired isi and military officers. but now, i ask, where are the islamic groups against the concept of pakistan itself? u give tell me that there are these groups who want an islamic state in pakistan but where are the ones who are denouncing the notion of a pakistan? since u are the resident salafi here on the forum shouldn't u be denouncing the idea of nation states?

LOL. That's odd. They attack naval bases, ISI head quarters, army garrisons and create their own armies and paralel government in the areas controled by them, and yet you say their policy is not to destroy the state?
Did you ever hear Baitullah Mehsud, Hakimullah Mehsud or any other leader of the movement talk? All they say is that the Pakistani state is a state based on Kufr and they desire to establish an Islamic state.

whats so odd about it? the afghan taliban do the same in afghanistan but their goal is not to destroy the nation state of afghanistan, is it?

Thats true. Afghans have no business fighting Pakistani government when Afghanistan is occupied by 50 countries. Afghanistan must win its own independence and expel the crusaders. This is the primary objective in Afghanistan for any Muslim.

And the overthrow of the secular government of Pakistan is a convenient matter for not only Afghanistan but the entire region. But why should Afghans use their limited force and abilities to go into the Pakistani soil and fight its government while their own homes are being bombed and their relatives massacred by NATO and Northern Alliance?

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Besides, The Afghan Taliban asked the Pakistani Taliban to help them in Afghanistan so that all the force is focused on expelling NATO. But the Pakistani Taliban said that they were willing to help, but since Pakistan is preventing them and attacking their homes and bombing them, they have to defend themselves. So they fight two wars. One against Pakistani government, and one against NATO in Afghanistan.

then why do pakis fight in afghanistan when they should be fighting their own government? why were madrassa students sent into afghanistan in the 90s when there was a godless government in pakistan ruling over the land they were born on?

if the paki taliban are fighting 2 wars then why wont the afghan taliban publicly join the paki taliban in fighting the paki government? since the paki state supposedly impedes their ability to effectively fight nato in afghanistan, u would think they would publicly fight against pakistan. its not like the state is using them, or protecting them....

Comparing Mullah Omar to those people shows your lack of knowledge of your own history and more important, lack of knowledge of Islam.

what does mullah omar, or the durand line have to do with islam? lol just yesterday u were rooting some depressed guy into suicide on the other section of the forum and now u are saying i lack knowledge of islam.

u were somehow trying to give credit to omar for not publicly accepting the durand line when i responded that no other afghan leader has either, no matter how despicable. and somehow this leads to me not having islamic knowledge? what the

Maybe you should read my posts a few more times.

i could read them a 100 times and still not get the answer. not because i am a dumbass, but because u havent answered the question.

so let me ask u again. why do even secularists have the balls to denounce the entire concept of the pakistani nation state when even the islamic parties in the country dont. the secularist argument is weak and based on race while the religious argument for the abolishment of pakistan is strong and based on the law of Allah yet not a peep out of the "i-islamis"

[khushal]

groups are usually based on geographical considerations. hence, the taliban are mostly pashtun.

so let me rephrase the question, why are there no religious parties against the concept of pakistan? even the paki taliban have not spoken against the concept of the state.

That a good question.
Maybe its because its a nice place to hide.