Future Map of Loy Afghanistan(pukhtunistan)

[Toramana]

Amir Al-Ghaznavi wror, Khyaal and Co are PMAParian (Pukhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party of Mahmoud Khan). These people have 19th Century thinking very remote from reality and in a way very retrogressive (in this 21st Century, they consider tribalism to be good...)

Khyaal may be living close to that region but is very away from ground realities.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Amir Al-Ghaznavi wror, Khyaal and Co are PMAParian (Pukhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party of Mahmoud Khan). These people have 19th Century thinking very remote from reality and in a way very retrogressive (in this 21st Century, they consider tribalism to be good...

Khyaal may be living close to that region but is very away from ground realities.

wrora I dont know much about the ANP and PMAP politics to be honest. I just want to educate those on current realities outside of internet fantasies

[khushal]

wrora u need to understand where im coming from

Im not saying at all that the Northerners want to secedde or that they have a strong separatist movement. I agree that Afghanistan has proving to be durable in nationalist terms despite 30 yrs of civil war. no doubt most Afghan citizens wish to remain so

But the dynamic changes completely when you include 25 million Lar Pakhtana. Automatically.

Also, while the level of empowerment the Northerners have today is unprecedent and owing to NATO and the US...it didnt begin today. It began during the Mujahid times when Jamiat and Junbish and the Hazara groups pre Wahdat started to gain power in their areas

Its pretty much institutionalized at this point.

What institutionalized? Its impossible for warlords that have committed crimes against humanity to have staying power. These things are temporary. These guys were gone, NATO brought them to power.
This is what malalai joya said about them and this is all true.

My name is Malalai Joya from Farah Province. By the permission of the esteemed attendees, and by the name of God and the colored-shroud martyrs of the path of freedom, I would like to speak for a couple of minutes. My criticism on all my compatriots is that why are they allowing the legitimacy and legality of this Loya Jerga come under question with the presence of those felons who brought our country to this state.
I feel pity and I feel very sorry that those who call Loya Jirga an infidel --basically equivalent to blasphemy. After coming here their words are accepted, or please see the committees and what people are whispering about. The chairman of every committee is already selected. Why do you not take all these criminals to one committee so that we see what they want for this nation? These were those who turned our country into the nucleus of national and international wars. They were the most anti-women people in the society who wanted to [makes pause] who brought our country to this state and they intend to do the same again. I believe that it is a mistake to test those already being tested. They should be taken to national and international court. If they are forgiven by our people, the bare-footed Afghan people, our history will never forgive them. They are all recorded in the history of our country


If these people had any staying power, the insurgency would not be this successful. Surely you cant believe criminals are going to run the country forever whether they are minority or pashtun.

[Toramana]

One cannt but laugh at either call it simplicity or gullibility of these PMAP people who think that the merger of 30 million Pashtuns with Afghanistan will not change the power equation for non-Pashtuns there...and that non-Pashtuns are very eager to have the 30 millions Pashtuns back...wow...

[graveyardofempires]

First of all you need to check your tone zoya when speaking on me, my biases and the legitimacy of my views

Who cares if it was like that before. Can a husband justify the continued beating of his wife on the basis that he did it before they had kids so why not after...

Think logically. We dont need more Pashtun soldiers sent to die to oppress others. We need Pashtun brains to build our lands.

You guys are jumping between 5 different arguments and contexts.

Yes the north is full of different ethnic groups who all have overwhelming loyalty to the modern Afghan nation state. But you cant assume that, when you add Lar Pakhtunkhwa

It defies logic.

Dont worry about my tone,your biasness is a bigger problem knowing the fact you have been on tv to represent the view of Afghans.or your?

Who cares if it was like that?We care ,its called justice and the justice is LOY AFGHANISTAN without any compromise.
Those who oppose this are against Afghan interest.

That is even a more bigger lie,Pashtun never go to die to oppress other Afghans.it exists between your ears.

the "north" "(as you so differently call it) doesnt stand against any such important matters,they knwo better.
They arent dumb they know whats in thier best interest and thats why they call themselves Afghan.


you preaching this civil war,ethnic racism scenraio is cooked for you by other forces who you willingly or unwillingly support in their mission.

[Orzala]

Loy Afghanistan makes perfect sense for Pashtuns. We have long been separated, though even today, the border is still quite invisible to both sides. It exists politically, nonetheless.

I sense Pakis in this forum, and it's mostly evident when they use the word Afghanistan in conjunction with Pakistan, with which they bear no cultural nor traditional similarities. In fact, the only similarity we do have is that we're both Muslims. Why don't they join India, their native land? Jinnah (the so-called "father" of Pakistan) wanted a momentary separation from India, he had hoped that one day India and Pakistan would re-unite when they are both on equal terms. So, in actuality Pakis should be working towards unifying with India. Genetically, culturally, historically and traditionally, you guys are one.

It's agitating to hear people say "Muslim groups should unite", there is clearly a religious motive underlying that so I can't help but ask why did God create borders, race, ethnicity, languages? Of course, spiritually Muslims should be united but to talk of unity in terms of politics, is stupidity. People (regardless of religion) fight for power by all means necessary, even with these numerous borders, now imagine if they didn't exist. People here are talking of unity as though it's easy done as said. Afghanistan/Pakhtunkhwa is pretty much broke. They lack lawyers, doctors, businessmen, engineers, etc. At the moment, they are barely getting by with basic education. So, first and foremost they need to advance educationally, politically and economically. And if we were ever to consider uniting with another country, God forbid it would be Pakistan. A country failing after existing for merely 60 years. Despite, the billions of dollars America has invested in them, over these past 60 years, they've still managed to create suicide bombers/terrorists, corrupt politicians, poverty and economical instability for themselves. Now tell me, what Afghan/Pashtun in their right minds would want to join you? You're better of joining hands with India, who is soon expected to beat China with their economy.

Wanting a muslim union is different thing, even during the time of sahabas there were provinces with different nations. I don't mind joining a union between Loy Afghanistan (afghanistan +pashtunkhwa) and punjabistan or paksitan. As long as punjabis speak and get educated in their langauge and we get educated in ours, its fine. i have no problems with that.

So, what's the point of this "union" then? Lol. Well, your argument defies all that Pakistan stands for - leeching onto our rich culture, intertwining their history with ours, mixing their genes with ours and integrating their language with ours. That is the purpose of their so-called "union". It is our fault though, for allowing them to think so far.

for now we should first strive for an autonomous Pashtunkhwa (unified) and Afghanistan....and in the near future slowly bring the union.

Don't give them false hope

[khyaal]

Amir Al-Ghaznavi wror, Khyaal and Co are PMAParian (Pukhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party of Mahmoud Khan). These people have 19th Century thinking very remote from reality and in a way very retrogressive (in this 21st Century, they consider tribalism to be good...)


Khyaal may be living close to that region but is very away from ground realities.

Whom you praise represent mob and no political party whatsoever. Besides, you should indulge only in academic discussions, this is not a proper place for you. LOL

[Toramana]

wrora I dont know much about the ANP and PMAP politics to be honest. I just want to educate those on current realities outside of internet fantasies

Well I don't know about the higher leadership of PMAP but some of the lower cadres that I have talked to have fantastic thinking...like others they think Empire of Ahmad Shah Baba can be revived....They cannot realise that the geopoltics of later medieval period is over once for all...and there is almost no possibility to take things back to 19th or 20th Century situation....

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

What institutionalized? Its impossible for warlords that have committed crimes against humanity to have staying power. These things are temporary. These guys were gone, NATO brought them to power.
This is what malalai joya said about them and this is all true.

My name is Malalai Joya from Farah Province. By the permission of the esteemed attendees, and by the name of God and the colored-shroud martyrs of the path of freedom, I would like to speak for a couple of minutes. My criticism on all my compatriots is that why are they allowing the legitimacy and legality of this Loya Jerga come under question with the presence of those felons who brought our country to this state.
I feel pity and I feel very sorry that those who call Loya Jirga an infidel --basically equivalent to blasphemy. After coming here their words are accepted, or please see the committees and what people are whispering about. The chairman of every committee is already selected. Why do you not take all these criminals to one committee so that we see what they want for this nation? These were those who turned our country into the nucleus of national and international wars. They were the most anti-women people in the society who wanted to [makes pause] who brought our country to this state and they intend to do the same again. I believe that it is a mistake to test those already being tested. They should be taken to national and international court. If they are forgiven by our people, the bare-footed Afghan people, our history will never forgive them. They are all recorded in the history of our country


If these people had any staying power, the insurgency would not be this successful. Surely you cant believe criminals are going to run the country forever whether they are minority or pashtun.

the power of warlords arent institutionalized. non pashtun empowerment is. the days of zahir shah are over.

[khushal]

First of all you need to check your tone zoya when speaking on me, my biases and the legitimacy of my views

Who cares if it was like that before. Can a husband justify the continued beating of his wife on the basis that he did it before they had kids so why not after...

Think logically. We dont need more Pashtun soldiers sent to die to oppress others. We need Pashtun brains to build our lands.

You guys are jumping between 5 different arguments and contexts.

Yes the north is full of different ethnic groups who all have overwhelming loyalty to the modern Afghan nation state. But you cant assume that, when you add Lar Pakhtunkhwa

It defies logic.

Ok. I see what your saying now. You are saying that if Lar pashtuns join than it is disservice to the northerners. Explain to me the reasoning behind this. How does it defy logic.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Dont worry about my tone,your biasness is a bigger problem knowing the fact you have been on tv to represent the view of Afghans.or your?

Who cares if it was like that?We care ,its called justice and the justice is LOY AFGHANISTAN without any compromise.
Those who oppose this are against Afghan interest.

That is even a more bigger lie,Pashtun never go to die to oppress other Afghans.it exists between your ears.

the "north" "(as you so differently call it) doesnt stand against any such important matters,they knwo better.
They arent dumb they know whats in thier best interest and thats why they call themselves Afghan.


you preaching this civil war,ethnic racism scenraio is cooked for you by other forces who you willingly or unwillingly support in their mission.

i went on tv to represent Pakhtun interests. I am a simple humble handsome Qibail.

I dont want to be insulting, but only an outright fool would dare think non Pashtuns would overwhelmingly accept 25 million Lar Pakhtuns. No way in hell.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Ok. I see what your saying now. You are saying that if Lar pashtuns join than it is disservice to the northerners. Explain to me the reasoning behind this. How does it defy logic.

very simple

today in afghanistan:

pakhtuns 15 million (50%)
non pakhtuns 15 million (50%)

generally speaking of course

lets add 25 million Pakhtuns

then

pakhtuns 40 million (73%)
non pakhtuns 15 million (27%)

and thats me being generous by callin them 50% of Afghanistans population



Under what logical emotional psychological political mental etc etc circumstance would a group accept being a minority to being at parity

[Toramana]

Whoever thinks that a minority will like to be converted into absolute/negligible and inconsequential minority is not thinking properly sorry to say that....Which minority on earth has ever liked that....?

Moreover, the numbers are 30 millions.

[khyaal]

but only an outright fool would dare think non Pashtuns would overwhelmingly accept 25 million Lar Pakhtuns. No way in hell.

So you think we the people of Pakhtunkhwa will be out to occupy lands and properties of others once we join Azad Afghanistan?

[graveyardofempires]

i went on tv to represent Pakhtun interests. I am a simple humble handsome Qibail.

I dont want to be insulting, but only an outright fool would dare think non Pashtuns would overwhelmingly accept 25 million Lar Pakhtuns. No way in hell.

like i said what you are saying is totally inaccurate.
you need to do a review and quit the biasness.

when you out there to speak about Afghanistan make sure you dont have this ethnic bias and especially not such an anti Afghan interest view.

you think Afghans will give up an inch of their land?

you are insulting yourself by showing such a level of ignorance.
what is non pashtun Afghans?and how will it only be Pashtuns join in?

Take a cup of coffee,better yet take the whole jaynak and WAKE UP!!!

btw you should also have an handsome mind that will be truelly handsome.