Pashtun ethnic nationalism

[Toramana]

That's all well and good Toramana, but by using the usual scapegoats; accusing everyone of Paki this, even though you're one of many members here who hold a Pakistani Passport, or accusing me of Arab that. You have failed to give an intellectually valid response to my points

please explain to us why Asfandyar Wali Khan is close associates with high level Pakistani Government officials.

No that is wrong ... rather the two are in a very uneasy relationship...As they are political people, they cannot go for a head-on confrontation...I am all praise for ANP (Awami National Party)...Shrewed politicians...mild, liberal, democratic, and at the same time conservative as well ...Good tacticians and strategists....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

No that is wrong ... rather the two are in a very uneasy relationship...As they are political people, they cannot go for a head-on confrontation...I am all praise for ANP (Awami National Party)...Shrewed politicians...mild, liberal, democratic, and at the same time conservative as well ...Good tacticians and strategists....

Really? So shrewd as to do this?

[Toramana]

Exactly, I am asking you to do just that. You have made a serious allegation against a fellow academic as you are bound to be a PhD grad. So now, you have to furnish the proof of what you claimed. Otherwise, fess up and just admit that you have none. So I am an agreement, sources ought to be vetted, I provided the gentleman's page and it shows he addresses nationalism from an orientalist perspective. He offers nothing regarding recommendations for Pakistani dominance etc. So now, you have to provide proof that said gentleman is as you say, affiliated with the ISI or a part of the Pakistani academia.

Look, the author has put forward a thesis in his article right ? And you without consulting the sources which he has based his thesis on, picked it (as if it were the word of God) and extended it building a whole theoritical ediface on it....Are you sure this is a proper thing to do as a truth-seeker and propagator/promotor?

When did you review it?

Noor da dai Pashtunistan da dai idea sara dai agree yama, Bacha.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

What it comes down to Toramana, is that you have arrived on Western shores but do not understand Western paradigms. You are still operating off the same political guess games as you did back in Pakistan. Here is what I mean: Here in the US, there are the republicans and the democrats. Republicans claim to predominantly represent an anti abortion stance... democrats claim to represent a pro choice stance. Democrats have become used to hurling ignominy at republicans accusing them of being backwards and hypocritical and republicans accuse democrats of "being out of touch with the pulse of America."

In the same vein, you were a die hard red hatter (ANP loyalist back home). So you became used to hurling the same invective at whatever you deemed the opposition. You have your trade slogans and phrases: Islamist, Arabist, Pakiophile, etc. the list is endless because it is party politics.

People here get confused though when you utilize these FOB tactics because the situation is much more complex. There is no Jamiat Islami or MMA for you to deal who have been traditionally on the recieving end of your rhetoric, and therefore the western born populace just looks at you as if you are incredulous because you are operating in the America 1950s FDR style democrato-republican shop talk accusation model that is somewhat on the way out. Its about the same as when a Jamiat guy comes here and labels anyone with a liberal secular mindset as "communist." It makes no sense.

[Toramana]

Barakzai, you have posted those pictures....Man politics in Pukhtunkhwa is different...You can find persons within the same family with different and diametrically-opposed ideological and political associations but they don't fight...and interact at social level....Same is true of politicians when it comes to social interaction/relations...I wonder why does it sound so strange to you.

[ScimitarXEdge]

No that is wrong ... rather the two are in a very uneasy relationship...As they are political people, they cannot go for a head-on confrontation...I am all praise for ANP (Awami National Party)...Shrewed politicians...mild, liberal, democratic, and at the same time conservative as well ...Good tacticians and strategists....

So Asfandyard Wali Khan got rescued in a helicopter because they have an uneasy relationship.


are you in perpetual denial or what? Save your propagandizing for elsewhere please, Obama is also "shrewd, mild, liberal and democratic" but he heads a major Imperialist military. That means jack all without morals and ethics to guide it.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Barakzai, you have posted those pictures....Man politics in Pukhtunkhwa is different...You can find persons within the same family with different and diametrically-opposed ideological association but they don't fight...and interact at social level....Same is true of politicians when it comes to social interaction/relations...I why does it sound so strange to you.

Having family's with ambivalent views is one thing; Having liasons at special meetings for a special cause like Achakzai patting Najibullah on the back for a job well done, while he was head of KHaD who were gouching out Pashtun eyeballs and letting Russian men urinate on Pashtun women is another matter.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Look, the author has put forward a thesis in his article right ? And you without consulting the sources which he has based his thesis on, picked it (as if it were the word of God) and extended it building a whole theoritical ediface on it....Are you sure this is a proper thing to do as a truth-seeker and propagator/promotor?

When did you review it?

Noor da dai Pashtunistan da dai idea sara dai agree yama, Bacha.

As I have said, I generally am a well wisher for Pashtun unity, but I refuse to accept an unrealistic and nonevidence derived commentary propounded by the vocal minority that Pakistan's Pashtuns are waiting to be saved by the Afghan Pashtuns pouring across the Khybar Pass, equipped with American arms. I have asked for the proof for this on numerous occasions and have just recieved neoconservative style rhetoric. I have also argued that ANP is just rhetoric and no substance. The article, in the least supports these contentions.

Regarding the author and your claim: Yes he did, so argue with him point by point. Start the the beginning and dissect his points. I went through his reference list and looked him up as you can see I posted his website. It was not I, but Admin Khan who posted the original source. So why dont you save your invective for him? Ask him why he posted a "pro paki" or paki intelligentsia hit piece without an accompanying caveat?

So as I said, you have two tasks for homework:

1) You must comb through this article and disprove what he has offered or counter it.

2) Prove that the author has links to Pakistani establishment folks as you made this accusation.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai, you have posted those pictures....Man politics in Pukhtunkhwa is different...You can find persons within the same family with different and diametrically-opposed ideological and political associations but they don't fight...and interact at social level....Same is true of politicians when it comes to social interaction/relations...I wonder why does it sound so strange to you.

Because words and deeds ought to match up. A good man does just that, matches words to deeds in a 1:1 correlation. This is politics as usual. And that my friend, is my point. I refuse to see Bacha Khan as a saviour, nor do I see Abdul Samad and Binte Abdul Samad Achekzai as saviours when they cannot deliver at the most simple level. The same holds true for other politicians in other parties around the world and Islamists alike.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The fact is people like Toramana are Trojan Horses for Imperialist Conquest; why else do you see them trying to nurture divisions between people who are suffering under the same rifes as we are; to cultivate this situation where people who should be allies are enemies so that the Imperialists can come around and say "you have no other friends but us" and we end up under their conquest. It's the most deceitful scheme.

[fzpz]

Wow, missed a good one over the week. Tora, is the complicated relationship so much that AWKhan was offered the president ship by the army?

Besides, it's academic norm that if you disagree with something, especially an academic paper like the one sourced here, your rebuttals must have sourced resources. We learn that in middle school. It seems like you graduated from the farhat andersen school of pseudo-academics, where insane assertions without proofs works.

[Prince_Pukhtun]

this article cried out to me

id say im one of the biggest pukhtun promoters out of every other pukhtun i know in the emerald isle

thank you for sharing :D