Bacha Bazi (pederasty) among Pashtuns – a few historical references

[Samandri]

http://www.barmazid.com/2019/04/bacha-bazi-pederasty-among-pashtuns.html

[khushal]

You don't have to go back that far in time. Its still there.
When I talk to our elders that had many travels in Afghanistan, they say that In Kandahar, Logar and Mazar. People had no shame when it came to bacha bazi, it was kind of a pride thing almost to the level of the pride parades in the West in those 3 places.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I think we should invoke history to demonstrate to people how deeply entrenched in society this practice really is and it's not merely propaganda or rumors and stories. There's too much denial and the problem with that is it lets these things persist.

[serat94]

Why and how did Bacha Baazi come into existence?

[khushal]

Bacha bazi was very common all over the world in the past. It was culture during the greek and roman times. Even Abe Lincoln had young male lover and it was common in European royalty. It still exists everywhere. But in Afghanistan, since the gov doesn't do anything about it, pedophiles are out of the closet just like gays in the West.

[khushal]

I think we should invoke history to demonstrate to people how deeply entrenched in society this practice really is and it's not merely propaganda or rumors and stories. There's too much denial and the problem with that is it lets these things persist.

Its common everywhere. Wide spread Pedophilia rings are being reported almost everywhere in the world, just google it. The problem in Afghanistan isnt the denial cause no one really in Afghanistan denies it(only internet fools here do) The problem in Afghanistan is that the gov nor the occupier US army who are the real responsible party doesn't do anything about it and in fact empowers the pedophiles.
But we already had this discussion.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Its common everywhere. Wide spread Pedophilia rings are being reported almost everywhere in the world, just google it. The problem in Afghanistan isnt the denial cause no one really in Afghanistan denies it(only internet fools here do) The problem in Afghanistan is that the gov nor the occupier US army who are the real responsible party doesn't do anything about it and in fact empowers the pedophiles.
But we already had this discussion.

We are responsible, the Government is a product of its people.

[khushal]

if you are responsible, then do something about it. You act as though you have a hand in it.

The media is too powerful so today the people are a product of its government. Its very easy now for the very few to control the people.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Why and how did Bacha Baazi come into existence?

In which context are you asking? As far as our human species or when did it become culturally prevalent among Pashtuns?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

if you are responsible, then do something about it. You act as though you have a hand in it.

The media is too powerful so today the people are a product of its government. Its very easy now for the very few to control the people.

I said we are responsible, not any singular individual. Our unwillingness to acknowledge this as a serious social problem gives it cover. It needs to be openly called out and treated as something gross and immoral. It is to some degree but not to the level of vehemence that it should be. We don't create social consequences for such behavior, in fact such behavior is often rewarded. We can shift blame to Americans/Puppet Government, but the reason why this fails is examining why would these be an instrument to reward such cretins in the first place? It stems from cultural and social patterns. You may (or may not) consider this "blaming the victim", for sure there is a dimension where the Imperial Design and Puppet Regime establishment has nurtured and facilitated these acts, but then there's the dimension of deep-seated social tendencies that go back into history. This is where our culpability emerges.

Some of these people who indulge in these acts are actually Tribal leaders who yell Pashtuntobi, Pashtunwali, Ghairatmand from the side of their mouths and would boast proudly that their people fought every foreign invader, some would even say they're proud Taliban supporters. Sure, sometimes the Talibs went after pederasts, when it was politically expedient to do so, sometimes they turned a blind eye for the same reason. Hence, it is up to our socety itself, it has to be a mass movement, and that might lead to exposure of some dirty laundry in Afghan society but in the end it will be a step in the right direction.

[khushal]

I said we are responsible, not any singular individual. Our unwillingness to acknowledge this as a serious social problem gives it cover. It needs to be openly called out and treated as something gross and immoral. It is to some degree but not to the level of vehemence that it should be. We don't create social consequences for such behavior, in fact such behavior is often rewarded. We can shift blame to Americans/Puppet Government, but the reason why this fails is examining why would these be an instrument to reward such cretins in the first place? It stems from cultural and social patterns. You may (or may not) consider this "blaming the victim", for sure there is a dimension where the Imperial Design and Puppet Regime establishment has nurtured and facilitated these acts, but then there's the dimension of deep-seated social tendencies that go back into history. This is where our culpability emerges.

Some of these people who indulge in these acts are actually Tribal leaders who yell Pashtuntobi, Pashtunwali, Ghairatmand from the side of their mouths and would boast proudly that their people fought every foreign invader, some would even say they're proud Taliban supporters. Sure, sometimes the Talibs went after pederasts, when it was politically expedient to do so, sometimes they turned a blind eye for the same reason. Hence, it is up to our socety itself, it has to be a mass movement, and that might lead to exposure of some dirty laundry in Afghan society but in the end it will be a step in the right direction.

First you need to acknowledge that this exists everywhere in the World and studies show that the vast majority of demand for child sex tourists come from the West. Leading child sex tourist countries like Thailand, Cambodia, India Brazil and Mexico are where the vast majority of prosecutions in those countries for such crimes are usually Westerners. The fact is that the Afghan gov does nothing about it and in reality neither do these other corrupt countries. They just have laws on paper but not enforced since money talks and bull**** walks. I don't even have to mention Epstein and his connection to pedophile rings and many corrupt politicians and elites.

Your point of what pedophiles yell and not yell really has no point because it does not matter what they yell out. Immoral behavior is immoral behavior no matter what you yell out. Some read the Quran or the Bible and some have PhDs and MDs but that has nothing to do with the argument. Your talking like those militant atheist cuckolds who claim that a guy reading the Quran who blows himself up or commits pedophilia did it because they were reading the Quran.

While there is evidence that secular Afghans do turn a blind eye to such immoral behavior and other immoral behavior because people have no shame in indulging in such immoral behavior and even boast about it but in the mullah world, no one can boast about such immoral behavior. In the mullah world, such things go underground.

[khushal]

First you need to acknowledge that this exists everywhere in the World and studies show that the vast majority of demand for child sex tourists come from the West. Leading child sex tourist countries like Thailand, Cambodia, India Brazil and Mexico are where the vast majority of prosecutions in those countries for such crimes are usually Westerners. The fact is that the Afghan gov does nothing about it and in reality neither do these other corrupt countries. They just have laws on paper but not enforced since money talks and bull**** walks. I don't even have to mention Epstein and his connection to pedophile rings and many corrupt politicians and elites.

Your point of what pedophiles yell and not yell really has no point because it does not matter what they yell out. Immoral behavior is immoral behavior no matter what you yell out. Some read the Quran or the Bible and some have PhDs and MDs but that has nothing to do with the argument. Your talking like those militant atheist cuckolds who claim that a guy reading the Quran who blows himself up or commits pedophilia did it because they were reading the Quran.

While there is evidence that secular Afghans do turn a blind eye to such immoral behavior and other immoral behavior because people have no shame in indulging in such immoral behavior and even boast about it but in the mullah world, no one can boast about such immoral behavior. In the mullah world, such things go underground.

x

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

First you need to acknowledge that this exists everywhere in the World and studies show that the vast majority of demand for child sex tourists come from the West. Leading child sex tourist countries like Thailand, Cambodia, India Brazil and Mexico are where the vast majority of prosecutions in those countries for such crimes are usually Westerners. The fact is that the Afghan gov does nothing about it and in reality neither do these other corrupt countries. They just have laws on paper but not enforced since money talks and bull**** walks. I don't even have to mention Epstein and his connection to pedophile rings and many corrupt politicians and elites.

Your point of what pedophiles yell and not yell really has no point because it does not matter what they yell out. Immoral behavior is immoral behavior no matter what you yell out. Some read the Quran or the Bible and some have PhDs and MDs but that has nothing to do with the argument. Your talking like those militant atheist cuckolds who claim that a guy reading the Quran who blows himself up or commits pedophilia did it because they were reading the Quran.

While there is evidence that secular Afghans do turn a blind eye to such immoral behavior and other immoral behavior because people have no shame in indulging in such immoral behavior and even boast about it but in the mullah world, no one can boast about such immoral behavior. In the mullah world, such things go underground.

I don't know man this just sounds like one big convoluted deflection tactic.

I would say the opposite is true, it's the secular Afghans that have been trying to highlight this problem but being silenced by the religious authorities and those that want to personify Afghan culture as somehow pristine and morally upright.

What I found is that there's this habit of trying to co-opt blame on some other margin or group rather than accepting blame holistically. I've seen Pashtuns try to portray predators that have Pashtun backgrounds as being from another ethnic group or portray them as kufar rather than admit that there are people who just use religion and culture as cloaks. I think your response is just emblematic of that habit rather than admitting that there are people that pass Islam through one mouth and preying on children through another. I would say that we should be most suspicious about those who go out of their way to portray themselves as sanctimonious and holy.

[khushal]

The only time this practice went underground was during the Taliban. Under the current secular administration and the ones before it like the communists, daud and zahir shah, the practice was open and the predators had no fear. The current religious authorities who silence the highlighting of this problem and also at the same time legitimize occupation are corrupt, bought and paid for and their intent isnt to glorify afghan culture, they have other self interests that make them behave the way they do. Also highlighting the problem doesnt really solve anything unless laws are enforced. Everyone in the World knows that the Afghan gov is one of the most corrupt in the world but nothing is being done about it which is what seculars are really good at. Highlight the problem and create social programs or money making schemes and pretend that you are doing something about it. Create jobs and salaries where if you solve the problem, the job and salary disappear.

When a vice exists in a society, the law makers have a hand in it because they are either directly or indirectly benefiting from the existence of the vice. The existence of the vice is proof that the law makers are corrupt and therefore the particular system that allows for those lawmakers to get away with it corrupt.

[khushal]

In which context are you asking? As far as our human species or when did it become culturally prevalent among Pashtuns?

She is most likely asking about Afghanistan since she would be most likely conditioned to believe that it only exists in Afghanistan. Even PhD and MD educated level people believe this since the media bombards them with it instead of the truth which is why I say today the people are a product of their gov.