Strong Women?

[Shayesta]

When you ask Afghans about the definition of 'strong women', these are the two answers you will most likely hear; 'A strong woman is someone who endures all kind of misfortunes and never breaks down while facing injustice.' Or; 'A strong woman is someone who fights for her rights without fearing any danger because you should die like a fighter, instead of live like a coward.'

The first answer will possibly be the most given answer, but what do you feel about it? Do you think strength lies in being quiet over everything coming through your way? Or at least trying to get rid of obstacles in your way?

[Malala]

I think patience is something which makes a person strong, and women have alot of patience, which makes them more stronger than men generally.

afghan women are first of all muslims ( some hindus, but am only talking about muslims) and as muslims, patience is very important, but islam have taught us when we should grib a situation and fight for our lives. so it all depends on the situation. you cant be strong by living with every Injustice nor by Fighting against every Injustice...

[IamDZJ]

We are used to putting the happiness of others ahead of us. Its what makes us makes us mothers and caregivers... part of what we are. Our weakness though is the fact that we dont stop giving when its expected from us. Demanded from us as if it was their right or something.
A woman makes the biggest crime aginst herself by herself.

[Feroza_Banu]

To me both women are strong... the one who takes it all in and stays quiet and believes and giving and not receiving anything back... and also the one that stands up for her rights. both require strength but different kinds of strength.

But personally i respect those women who stand up for their rights... I respect those who use their knowledge and their creativity to fight the opressor. i respect those who make their own identity and stand still on their ground. i respect those women who know how to say "No, u are wrong" and "No you are being unfair" ... if women don't stand up for themselves, men wont.

I have seen men respect their wives or partners more when their wives are independent, they are educated and have their own identity. They respect them more if they know how to disagree. and those women that are uneducated, that are brought up to take crap from men are opressed even more by men, and other women too.

I believe our society teaches women to be nurturing, giving, sacrificing because that is what men want us to believe ideal women should be. the more we are taught to take our men's injustices the happier our men will be... so the "taleem" starts from childhood. I am against this. I believe every human being, be it man or woman, should be taught how to fight for their rights from childhood... and the fact that women are taught differently is a very sad aspect of our society.

[spogmai shaglay]

both type of women are strong.....i agree....

we can stand against injustice even if we are in danger.....but raising our heads against injustice if our loved ones are in danger is another question.......thts when we keep quiet....so it depends...

but yes....bearing injustice is as much a sin as doing injustice.....

[Palwasha]

Both, since not every woman/girl is in a position to fight the injustices; it's not always about capability, rather ability.

Interesting question.

[Roshina]

I WANT to say that the strong woman is the one who stands up and fights for justice because that's not easy to do. So she must have a certain kind of self-confidence and strength necessary to take on such a role.

And I WANT to say that the woman who lives only in her miseries and doesn't do much about it is not at all strong because, naturally and as humans, we are prone to resisting (in whatever small or big ways possible for us) whatever is unjust to us.

BUT it can be argued that the woman who stays in unjust situation is strong because it takes a certain kind of strength to submit like that.

The kinda person I am, though, I refuse to believe that the woman who SEEMS to be deferring to unjust situation is in actuality submitting, sitting there doing nothing about it. I've learned that they're always resisting if they're unhappy, but this resistance is not recognized because it's not the kind of resistance we're used to seeing (e.g., becoming a public figure, giving speeches and lectures about what's wrong and why and how it should be fixed). We need to understand that this is not the ONLY way a person can fight for justice and there are several alternatives. We can't and don't understand what all goes into the women's hearts and minds who are unhappy, or are experiencing injustice; so just because we don't understand their situation doesn't mean we can pass judgments such as "they're unhappy and aren't doing anything about it, so we don't have to help them" or "they don't deserve our sympathy because they're silent." No, they're not silent. They're ALWAYS involved in "subtle" ways that is different from what we might see normally in societies where women have more social, economic, and/pr political support. Perhaps they have cliques in the community for other women just like them, or for all women and some of those women say things that empower the ones who are living unjust lives. Perhaps they do certain activities, whether individually or collectively with other women/people, that give them the strength required for carrying on so that what seems to be injustice to the observer is experienced and interpreted far more differently by those to whom it's happening.

And so . . . I don't believe that it "depends on the situation." It doesn't. No human just sits there and lets injustice eat her/him up every minute of her/his life. But even if humans DID do that, nothing justifies why someone should just sit there in an unjust situation and not respond or react -- if injustice is REALLY taking place; otherwise, it is my impression that it's not injustice. And in this case, I don't at all think that the women who just sit there are strong. Not at all... but then again, refer to my idea of human resistance and the different forms it comes in.

[Dukemina]

An equal balance between the two. Wise enough to know when to fight and when to compromise

[amna.]

An equal balance between the two. Wise enough to know when to fight and when to compromise

Compromising with evil means you gave up on your rights. If I want to rob you, we should not compromise, its wrong anyways. Its either you give the wallet, or you die by defending yourself. Your call.

[Dukemina]

My dear amna, life is worth more than a wallet. If I would be as stupid to die over something so miniscule and worldy I would call myself a failure. Wisdom is not dieing for every wrong done to you but the knowledge of WHAT to die for and what NOT to die for

[Shayesta]

I think patience is something which makes a person strong, and women have alot of patience, which makes them more stronger than men generally.

There is a huge difference between patience, tolerance and injustice. You can have patience with ignorant people, you can be tolerant of naive people, but why keep injustice to yourself with violent people? How long do you want to wait till 'your husband/in-laws don't beat you any more'? Till you are a mother-in-law yourself when you (finally) can bring it all back on your daughter-in-law and keep the circle going?

the one who takes it all in and stays quiet and believes and giving and not receiving anything back.

By letting yourself being beaten by every Tom, D*ck and Harry, what are you 'giving' your oppressors? If your oppressors can't even give you justice then isn't it obvious you will never even expect to get anything else instead? And why should we keep quiet to injustice? Because that makes us 'strong'?

I believe our society teaches women to be nurturing, giving, sacrificing because that is what men want us to believe ideal women should be.

No, this what women and especially mothers and mothers-in-law will find ideal, just to satisfy the very same man they gave birth to!

the more we are taught to take our men's injustices the happier our men will be.

And the more backward, intolerant, unacceptable and injustice our society gets. Or will stay.

but raising our heads against injustice if our loved ones are in danger is another question.......thts when we keep quiet....

If I am not mistaken, our neighbors won't come and abuse us, it's usually 'our loved ones' (family, family-in-law, etcetera) who abuse us and if your own loved ones can kill your happiness for their own satisfaction then why would you give a damn about such inhuman creatures?

but yes....bearing injustice is as much a sin as doing injustice.....

Though fighting against injustice can never be injustice to others. If it was only happening to you and your 'loved ones' cared enough then they wouldn't let you live with injustice in first place, would they?

Both, since not every woman/girl is in a position to fight the injustices; it's not always about capability, rather ability.

That's indeed a good point which could be argued, but if this 'tradition' isn't handled today then nor will it be handled tomorrow. And it's not that because some women are illiterate, therefore they can't fight injustice, no. They do know what to do which at least is prevent their sons from doing the same as their fathers did, but they are just not bothered. And those women, who never learn from their mistakes, bad past and cruelty, I can never respect them and nor feel sorry for them. Maybe feel sorry for their being but that's it.

BUT it can be argued that the woman who stays in unjust situation is strong because it takes a certain kind of strength to submit like that.

But don't you think such women are actually just scared of their husband's reaction? Or don't want to upset their husbands and therefore keep quiet? A strong person is someone who does have a fear but is not afraid of it's outcomes, if you know what I mean?

I don't believe that it "depends on the situation." It doesn't. No human just sits there and lets injustice eat her/him up every minute of her/his life.

Exactly! What's the use of life when your not living your life but letting your life be led? Why not fight against injustice just one day out of all those miserable decades you are living!? Just one day? You are already leading a miserable life and if your 'fight' is a failure then what difference will it make anyway?

If I would be as stupid to die over something so miniscule and worldy I would call myself a failure. Wisdom is not dieing for every wrong done to you but the knowledge of WHAT to die for and what NOT to die for.

The wallet is not even the point, that's just an example. The point is your possession. Are you willing to give up on your possession which includes your rights, your freedom and even your life because you are scared? Why be scared of death if you are dying from within every single day anyway?

[Fahd]

[Roshina]

Shayesta, you're one of hell of a smart woman! I love your logic, and I love your questions even more. I can now relax, knowing that there's at least one Pukhtana out there who knows how important it is to fight for justice, even if it's over something as minute as a thief taking your wallet from your hand. Yes, even that needs to be fought against. That might be a very primary level of injustice, but it's injustice nonetheless, and that's what's wrong. If that thief gets away with taking your wallet, and he sees that you just let it go and didn't attempt to get it or didn't scream for help (by yelling "FIRE! FIRE!!!!" NOT "HELP! HELP!"), he'll take advantage of YOUR weakness, YOUR passivity, YOUR submission to a "small" act of injustice, and, who knows, his next victim might not only have a wallet stolen from her but be raped as well.

That is a major problem that we need to start discussing among ourselves -- at least with our friends, if not with our families.

There is a huge difference between patience, tolerance and injustice.

Another major problem, especially among many eastern women (and particularly Pukhtun women), is that they mistake "patience" for submitting to injustice and have reached a point where they don't know the difference between the twp. Patience is a virtue, remember that; submitting to injustice is anything BUT a virtue.

There's absolutely nothing "patient" about staying in unjust situations. Now, if YOU don't believe what's happening to you is not unjust, then that's a different story, and that's fine. But I'd personally find it very sad if a raped victim doesn't think being raped is unjust, or if a wife who's abused even just twice a year doesn't think she's suffering in an unjust marriage, or if someone (male or female) who had no say in marraige doens't think it was unjust. Sadly, some social systems work in such a clever way that we start to become accepting of norms and values and morals that are beyond cruel. Women in abusive relationships, not just in the east but in the west as well, are among those who don't think there's a way out or who don't want to stand up for justice.

By letting yourself being beaten by every Tom, D*ck and Harry, what are you 'giving' your oppressors? If your oppressors can't even give you justice then isn't it obvious you will never even expect to get anything else instead? And why should we keep quiet to injustice? Because that makes us 'strong'?

This is an excellent point in any discussion of injustice, patience, and strength. To those who believe that being patient in, say, abusive relationships make you stronger, my question is: It makes you stronger for what purpose? To CONTINUE suffering in such a cruel environment? Makes you stronger continue TAKING such injustice from your partner? Makes you stronger to ACCEPT such actions as legitimate or acceptable? Makes you stronger so that you can endure this life only to await death?

To hell with that kind of strength, then. We don't need that in any society.

But don't you think such women are actually just scared of their husband's reaction? Or don't want to upset their husbands and therefore keep quiet? A strong person is someone who does have a fear but is not afraid of it's outcomes, if you know what I mean?

Yes! Those women (or even men) who give in to justices simply out of fear are actually as cowardly as a human can get. If women TRULY do NOTHING about their mistreatment and only complain, then they are not strong at all. They're actually very weak. But I don't wanna assume they do nothing; I am perfectly, fully, over 100% sure that all women, as do all humans, resist oppression and other mistreatment, but just so subtly that we don't consider it "resistance" because then that makes them evil, bad, western, mateezaane, brainwashed, and everything else associated with the infidel, infidel west. But lo and behold, it's resistance nonetheless.

What's the use of life when your not living your life but letting your life be led? Why not fight against injustice just one day out of all those miserable decades you are living!? Just one day? You are already leading a miserable life and if your 'fight' is a failure then what difference will it make anyway?

You ask, why?... It's simple: WAY too many females are raised to believe that, in order to be good wives and good Muslim women, they MUST sacrifice their own happiness for that of their kids' and husbands'. Of course, I passionately disagree with this. You shouldn't be living your life for ANYTHING! You can be perfectly happy yourself WHILE making others happy, and if your happiness is denied to you because you've to please your own husband, then that husband isn't worth pleasing in the first place.

And, heck, why can't we say the same to and about men? Why can't they sacrifice their happiness for their wives? ... No, don't tell me it's because we're physically different. That's just dumb. Our biological differences have nothing to do with who should make whom happy and why. We should BOTH be making each other happy.

Children are a different story: BOTH parents should be sacrificing for them, not just the mother.

So, yeah.

[roadrunner]

When you ask Afghans about the definition of 'strong women', these are the two answers you will most likely hear;

A strong woman is one who can get up at 6 am everyday and make me a cup of tea.

I'm joking.

A strong woman is one who either can lift a lot of weight in the gym, for a woman, or one that sets her mind to whatever task she wants to and then completes it. The more difficult the task, the stronger the woman.

Right, now let's see what the answers should have been.

'A strong woman is someone who endures all kind of misfortunes and never breaks down while facing injustice.'

A bit of both. Strong and weak I would say.

She would be strong because she hasn't broken down, but weak in that she is accepting second best.

Unless of course she doesn't accept the injustice, but can't do anything about it anyway. In that case, strong.

Or; 'A strong woman is someone who fights for her rights without fearing any danger because you should die like a fighter, instead of live like a coward.'

Possibly strong and brave if she would go that far.

Most feminists would not.

I suppose that would make them committed, which could be strong. A strongly committed person.

The first answer will possibly be the most given answer, but what do you feel about it? Do you think strength lies in being quiet over everything coming through your way? Or at least trying to get rid of obstacles in your way?

A woman should try and get her rights.

It's not particularly strong of them to do this, just reasonable.

Being quiet over something can be strong or weak.

[Malala]

There is a huge difference between patience, tolerance and injustice. You can have patience with ignorant people, you can be tolerant of naive people, but why keep injustice to yourself with violent people? How long do you want to wait till 'your husband/in-laws don't beat you any more'? Till you are a mother-in-law yourself when you (finally) can bring it all back on your daughter-in-law and keep the circle going?

patience and tolarance are not very much different than each other shayesta gule.
As we were talking about women and specially strong women i though women in all situations, not only being a wife being beaten by her husband. and no violent is not a part of islam, so a woman may not have any patience for violent.