Why are Pukhtuns from Afghanistan so conservative?

[Feroza_Banu]

^

Its not creating disunity. Nothing will inshallah

Its his observation and opinion, we don't have to agree with it or take it offensively. We know what the real truth it.

I hardly believe it brother. he has changed his opinion about afghans one too many times. he dodges between calling us different names whenever it suits his purpose. in one thread we are extremists, in another thread we are too westernized and persianized...

I do hope one thing that he doesnt represent the mainstream pashtoons from the other side of the border... *fingers crossed*

[Saifullah]

Toramana doesn't represent anyone except his own delusional thoughts

[Feroza_Banu]

I never said that. Let me repeat again I never meant that i.e., all Pashtuns of Afghanistan are Persianised. What I said was that some Pashtuns of northern Afghanistan and Kabul have become persianised. How can I say this about the hardcoe Pashtuns of Kandahar, Paktiya, Paktika, and the rest of rural-south-east Afghanistan?

But I made the same complain about some Punjabized Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa.

If this is the case then i agree with you... persianized pashtoons exist the same way punjabized pashtoons exist in pakistan...

when you refer to kabul and pashtoon's persianization, please be aware that you are only referring to kabul city. Kabul city is in Kabul province, which has majority pashtoon speakers. (off topic, but FYI)

your thread is seen negative by me and some others here because you have specifically said afghanistan's pashtoons are extremists. if you had said why are some members so conservative compared to others then there was a point to debate about. you can't label afghanistan's pashtoons as conservativ and extremists while labeling all pakhtoonkhwa pashtoons as 'enlightened', whatever that means. this is solely based on false generalization.

Do you honestly believe a few members you have named here represents pashtoonkhwa ? isn't pashtoonkhwa a breeding grown for extremism? think about it a little. or is that when you say pashtoonkhwa members in this forum you mean to say people that are born and raised in peshawar city (or a western country)... which again doesn't represent heartland of pashtoons as kabul city doesn't represent heartland of afghanistan!

[Saifullah]

hmm

[Admin Khan]

Guys,

give these oneliners a break for once. Sorry for interrupting. Keep personal attacks out of this. You are not obligated to respond. Its his opinion and he has every right to hold an opinion.

[abubaker]

poor man is scared of tasbih lol

most muslims in this forums seem very rational to me, unlike some nationalists here who have been changing there stance on certain issues more then i can remember


so whats the titled of your next thread

incinerate all Pashtoon from Afghanistan

at least we don't call you muhajir or agha jan when come to Afghanistan

[Roshina]

The people you mentioned, Toramana, are onliners. The Pashtuns from Afghanistan with whom I interact on a daily basis in real life are actually far more progressive than the Pashtuns from Pakistan. These are women I'm talking about, with the Pashtun women of Afghanistan being more educated (most of whom came here as refugees and settled here and created their own businesses and whatnot) while those of Pashtunkhwa are not.

That's not to indicate that I know most of them, though. I meet them at regular gatherings held here in the city where I live in the U.S. I find myself more attracted to the women of Afghanistan at these gatherings; I feel more comfortable with them, as they're more likely to hold intellectual discussions and talk about meaningful and productive stuff than the women of Swat, Dir, and Buner here. I'd have to meet many, many more to make a stronger case regarding who's more progressive and who's not for sure, though.

[Toramana]

Hi all. Let me apologize to you all. Probably, we Pukhtuns from Pukhtunkhwa not having seen the devastations (as Pashtuns from Afghanistan have) of a war fought on the basis of ideology might be more rash in our approach. I have the same level of regard for Pashtuns no matter wherever they are from. How can an imaginary line i.e., Durand Line make us different from each other not withstanding a little difference in perception?

Being divisive will be the last thing I would be.

Also let me say that, for the kind of religious bigots that want to push our nation into further backwardness with their obscure thinking there should be people with an appropriate response.

[Toramana]

If this is the case then i agree with you... persianized pashtoons exist the same way punjabized pashtoons exist in pakistan...

when you refer to kabul and pashtoon's persianization, please be aware that you are only referring to kabul city. Kabul city is in Kabul province, which has majority pashtoon speakers. (off topic, but FYI)

your thread is seen negative by me and some others here because you have specifically said afghanistan's pashtoons are extremists. if you had said why are some members so conservative compared to others then there was a point to debate about. you can't label afghanistan's pashtoons as conservativ and extremists while labeling all pakhtoonkhwa pashtoons as 'enlightened', whatever that means. this is solely based on false generalization.

Do you honestly believe a few members you have named here represents pashtoonkhwa ? isn't pashtoonkhwa a breeding grown for extremism? think about it a little. or is that when you say pashtoonkhwa members in this forum you mean to say people that are born and raised in peshawar city (or a western country)... which again doesn't represent heartland of pashtoons as kabul city doesn't represent heartland of afghanistan!

Yes, Feroza_Banu, when I mentioned Kabul, I meant Kabul city. And the subject of this thread was about some Pashtuns of Afghanistan not all and "on this forum" only. And when I talked about the shopkeepers, I qualified it with "some". Obviously, the same type of people can also be found in Pukhtunkhwa.

Generally, some Pukhtuns of Pukhtunkhwa and Afghanistan are more traditional.

[Baygham]

Why most of the Pashtun members from Afghanistan on this forum are so deeply immersed in religiousity and an extreme conservatism? All the best, rational/objective, and enlightened minds that I see here are from Pukhtunkhwa whether Baygham, BehaveMasood, gulalai, Qrratugai, LewanayZalmay, Nadir Shah, Pir-i-Rokhan, etc.

In Pukhtunkhwa, I lived in a Muhallah where there were some Pashtun shopkeepers from Afghanistan. In the morning, when I will go out into the street, I will see them-with the typical Islamic white caps-holding long "taspai" in their hands. It literally made me scared. Looking at this, sometimes, the very idea of Pashtun unity repels me.

Please, this should not be taken as offense. I still have unwavering belief in the potential of all Pashtuns to rise above narrow sectarianism and tribal tendencies and forge Pan-Pashtun unity

Have you visited kabul lately, It is no different than Islamabad. A w h o r e house with w h o r e's and their pimps, if that is the definition of progress than better remain a 'muflis' (still wont become a mullah but that is another discussion).

Cross the Maipur mountain and you will see the same pashtoons all the way to Swabi.

The pashtoons are given two choices, the forces of islamists will kill you for anything, and the other side will ask you to become a dhalal or a w'hore before you are offered protection from the mullah-jan.

This immersion in religiosity is a survival trait. The ISI funded mullah stays away and the kabul/islamabad based pimps dont come calling either.

[Toramana]

The people you mentioned, Toramana, are onliners. The Pashtuns from Afghanistan with whom I interact on a daily basis in real life are actually far more progressive than the Pashtuns from Pakistan. These are women I'm talking about, with the Pashtun women of Afghanistan being more educated (most of whom came here as refugees and settled here and created their own businesses and whatnot) while those of Pashtunkhwa are not.

That's not to indicate that I know most of them, though. I meet them at regular gatherings held here in the city where I live in the U.S. I find myself more attracted to the women of Afghanistan at these gatherings; I feel more comfortable with them, as they're more likely to hold intellectual discussions and talk about meaningful and productive stuff than the women of Swat, Dir, and Buner here. I'd have to meet many, many more to make a stronger case regarding who's more progressive and who's not for sure, though.

Qrratugai, thanks for the informative comment. What I said was limited to the situation on this forum. Pashtuns of Afghanistan are more traditional in the sense of Pashtunwali but then Pashtunwali also have got an element of progressive tendency (compared to orthodox Islam of some people here). Let me admit that Pashtuns from Afghanistan happen to be more accepting of modern values when educated.

It may be the case that as many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa have got exposed to ideological Islam so also a lot of Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa have had exposure to liberal-secular ideologies.

[Feroza_Banu]

Have you visited kabul lately, It is no different than Islamabad. A w h o r e house with w h o r e's and their pimps, if .

What the helllllllll are you talking about? We have families living in Kabul and u don't have an ounce of shame in you to stop from using such a derogatory term for people of Kabul?

Toramana, this is your enlightened member... Mubarak de wei...

we are ok with people that have tasbeh and are uneducated, at least they have something called "adab, sharm o haya"

[Roshina]

It may be the case that as many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa have got exposed to ideological Islam so also a lot of Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa have had exposure to liberal-secular ideologies.

Yeah. And it may also be that the Pashtuns from Afghanistan (though now also many in Pashtunkhwa) have witnessed the harms of extremism, so they know better. Those who are still extremist don't typically live in Afghanistan, have you notice? They live in the (infidel) west, in fact! They're also a more younger generation than the older ones that completely reject extremism in all forms.

... Come to think of it, I think this would prove a great study for someone interested in studying Afghans/Pashtuns! Which generations are the most conservative ones? Where do they tend to live? Who do they tend to interact with? What reasons do they provide for their conservative or non-conservative views?

[Saifullah]

There are extremist all around the world, extremists in the west as well..so to say exposure to this and that, thats nonsense.

[Toramana]

because we love our Religion. We have kept our Religion unlike the ones you have posted. Is there a problem if I quietly go to my room and pray?


it literally made you scared? Lag sharam waka what a way to further divide us. We are the scary religious type who literally scares you. Im still trying to put logic together on how an old Religious man scared you. IF a Punjabi would have said this I wouldve had disregarded but coming from a once respected members in my eyes is when it hurts.

This thread taught me a valuable lesson. Thank you. Hell no like Dazahrojaam said once. She was so wise when she said we dont ever want to get united with you guys cause you will mock us. Seeing how an Afghan would tasbeeh scared you I wouldnt want my father to scare you either.

At this point Id rather unite with Akbar Khan from Kandahar. DAzahrojaam from Jalalabad,Sangar from Kabul, Mahzala from Kunar or Feroza from Wardag before I ever think of uniting with you people again.

Hazaras and Tajiks call us Pashtuns as big brother. They take pride when those Kandahar people ruled India. When they ruled Iran. When they produced scholars. They talk pride in Wardags who were given presidency but refused and said let someone else have it I just defended my country. Those Tajiks would never be scared of someone with Tasbeeh. Its because of Pashtuns like you who fuel our tensions.


My dreams of Uniting with you people are gone. Id rather implement a border right now than to see atheists insult my people and my Religion.

You want us to unite with hardheaded people like Baygham who just insulted a Pashtun dominated province of Afghanistan? Keep the Baygham type people for yourself. We have no room for them in the motherland of Pashtuns. We dont like being insulted.

Hi AfghanPrincess, please hold on for a moment. I protest what I meant was that too much religiousity scares me (and this is true I assure you). I would never mock another Pashtun. I am a hardcore nationlist and Pashtun patriot. Have you not read the threads I have started here?

Assume for a moment that I have mocked Pashtuns (which is not true at all), there are many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa here that have not done that. So it would be unjust of you to change your mind on such flimsy ground.

Please don't lose faith in Pashtun unity because one individual said something that sound to you inadequate.