Why are Pukhtuns from Afghanistan so conservative?

[Toramana]

Why most of the Pashtun members from Afghanistan on this forum are so deeply immersed in religiousity and an extreme conservatism? All the best, rational/objective, and enlightened minds that I see here are from Pukhtunkhwa whether Baygham, BehaveMasood, gulalai, Qrratugai, LewanayZalmay, Nadir Shah, Pir-i-Rokhan, etc.

In Pukhtunkhwa, I lived in a Muhallah where there were some Pashtun shopkeepers from Afghanistan. In the morning, when I will go out into the street, I will see them-with the typical Islamic white caps-holding long "taspai" in their hands. It literally made me scared. Looking at this, sometimes, the very idea of Pashtun unity repels me.

Please, this should not be taken as offense. I still have unwavering belief in the potential of all Pashtuns to rise above narrow sectarianism and tribal tendencies and forge Pan-Pashtun unity

[Saifullah]

Following Islam is not extremism..because Islam is the middle path. You need fix up your dictionary

[Toramana]

Tormana.

I would say that people like Akbar khan, millatpal noorzai, myself and many others are quite intellectual and rational and objective. Something which you might called rational may be irrational to someone else. Its all a matter of opinion. Supporting "western ideals", secularism, humanism, atheism and all other idealogies might seem rational and intellectual but its just a matter of opinion. What gives you the right to say or be the judge of what is rational and objective and whats not?

What you are stating is your opinion and I respect that but the chavunastic behaviour of so called "rationalists" and "enlightened" people is childish and arrogant to say the least.

The names you mentioned above don't seem rational to me except for a few.

The approach of almost all of them i.e., Pashtuns from Afghanistan here, is shaped by religion, which we know is "just a belief" where things are presumed and all knowledge and understanding of things including even matters of common-sense are considered to be derived from divine sources. As one can clearly see, human reason and objective truth acquired through experience/observation have no value in such a radically conservative thinking.

[Toramana]

Following Islam is not extremism..because Islam is the middle path. You need fix up your dictionary

If you don't have anything substantial and meaningful to say, don't say it. It is not just making a claim. It is also to support it with evidence and argument. What is the punishment of an apostate in Islam by the way? Even if a person who has very genuine questions regarding divine truth is condemned to death in Islam. What kind of middle path it is?

[*Mahzala*]

If I am not mistaken Toramana, you once said you were a strong Sufi. Are Sufi's not lost in mysticism, which undoubtedly, is a result of their firm faith? I don't agree that we think common sense is derived from Divine sources. I would be happy to see an example that proves this point. In saying that, I don't condemn rationality or objectivity, but when it is done by ridiculing Divine sources and commandments, that is not easily digested. And, if I may ask, what does it mean to be enlightened? I have a soft place for that word.

[Feroza_Banu]

I don't understand how you can judge the forum members personality and conservatism from behind a PC, but nontheless, there is a fair gap between love for one's religion and extremism. I do agree that we have a couple of members who potray themselves like beasts and are ready to give fatwas on killing of other members who don't agree with them but shouldn't you be more accepting to the fact that extremism exists everywhere, especially because you come from pakhtoonkhwa a place famouse for its unlimited stock of suicide bombers.

i dont understand why would a man's tasbih scare you? he wasn't holding a gun pointed at you. the people that worship alot, do zikr and are busy with a deed of khair, they are the most harmless people on face of earth.

[Toramana]

A thing I noticed about some of the so called "rationalists" here is that they want change very quickly and seem quite frustrated with the state of affiars of pashtuns. They seem to assume they stand on higher "intellectual gound" and the rest need to catch up to them. The only way I can see us prosperous is respecting each other's opinions and becoming more tolerant.

On one side the religious extremists and pushing their agendas down people's throats and on the other side its the "rationalists". Both need to calm down.

Timbaktu, I agree with you to some extent i.e., some nationalists here may be desperate for a visible change in Pashtun situation but a degree of radical confriontation-on idealogical-level is inevitable for such a change to start taking place. One cannot be at the mercy of traditions and superstitions forever and must strive for a visible change.

[Toramana]

If I am not mistaken Toramana, you once said you were a strong Sufi. Are Sufi's not lost in mysticism, which undoubtedly, is a result of their firm faith? I don't agree that we think common sense is derived from Divine sources. I would be happy to see an example that proves this point. In saying that, I don't condemn rationality or objectivity, but when it is done by ridiculing Divine sources and commandments, that is not easily digested. And, if I may ask, what does it mean to be enlightened? I have a soft place for that word.

Let me admit that I feel attracted to the kind of mysticism/panthiesm that is universally found in all higher religions. This is because I find it to be founded on more "reasonable" gorunds. Being a cultural Muslim, this also gives me a way to be linked to my Muslim heritage.

As for ridiculing the divine truth(?) and commandments, if objective truth and reason contradicts religious sayings, I will accept what is reasonable and obvious. How can I deny truth and keep on "bellieving" in something which is not simply true.

[Saifullah]

If you don't have anything substantial and meaningful to say, don't say it. It is not just making a claim. It is also to support it with evidence and argument. What is the punishment of an apostate in Islam by the way? Even if a person who has very genuine questions regarding divine truth is condemned to death in Islam. What kind of middle path it is?

I can support everything i say, whereas you cannot. You just go round in circles. If you wanna be a kafir, be a kafir. Islam doesn't need you. But when you are an apostate but claim to be a muslim that is where all the problems arise. You can make your own religion, go worship a cow if you want.

[Feroza_Banu]

weren't you , toramana, the one who claimed that afghanistan's pashtoons are not the real pashtoon, they are persianized and have lost their culture? now u are saying they are too conservative, and they scare you?...

[Feroza_Banu]

oh wait,,, who am i kidding. this is another thread aimed at creating disunity amongst pashtoons.

[Saifullah]

Toramana is confused, doesn't know what to believe....

[Saifullah]

It is a pashtun problem wherever they may be located, this form of extremism i wouldnt say extremists in religion, but rather extremist in their culture.

[Toramana]

weren't you , toramana, the one who claimed that afghanistan's pashtoons are not the real pashtoon, they are persianized and have lost their culture? now u are saying they are too conservative, and they scare you?...

I never said that. Let me repeat again I never meant that i.e., all Pashtuns of Afghanistan are Persianised. What I said was that some Pashtuns of northern Afghanistan and Kabul have become persianised. How can I say this about the hardcoe Pashtuns of Kandahar, Paktiya, Paktika, and the rest of rural-south-east Afghanistan?

But I made the same complain about some Punjabized Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa.

[Saifullah]

Well complain about yourself first