Is Nowruz a traditional Pashtun holiday or a result of Persian influence?

[Sarbani]

Its often said that the reason its celebrated by Pashtuns in Afghanistan proper rather than in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa-North Balochistan is because of Desi influence in KP-NB. However, my opinion is of the opposite. I'd say its celebrated among Afghanistani Pashtuns because of influence from Persians being stronger there. Here are some reasons why:

1. Shia Pashtuns in KP-NB celebrate Nowruz. Not only do Shia Pashtuns celebrate Nowruz, but so do Shia Desis. If Desi influence was the reason that Sunni Pashtuns of KP-NB don't celebrate Nowruz, then Shia Pashtuns and Shia Desis wouldn't either celebrate Nowruz.

2. Sunni Pashtuns from the tribal more isolated close to the border of Afghanistan (e.g. Waziristan) have little to no Desi influence and they have no tradition of celebrating Nowruz.

3. Nowruz is celebrated in regions traditionally under the Persian sphere of influence. It's celebrated by Kurds, Azeris, Central Asian Turks, Volga Turks, and so on. So it's possible to conclude that the reason some Pashtuns celebrate Nowruz is cause of cultural influence from Persians. Pashtuns were always a tribal more isolated people so that would explain why it may not have been traditionally as common among Pashtuns compared to the other groups I mentioned.

4. Pashtuns of Afghanistan don't celebrate it to the same degree as Iranians do. There isn't any Chaharshanbe Suri nor is there any mention of Amu Nowruz and Haji Firuz among Pashtuns from Afghanistan. In a thread about Nowruz here, a user that visited Iran's Sistan & Balochistan said the local Baloch people did celebrate Nowruz but similar to the way AFG Pashtuns celebrate it rather than the way Persians celebrate it.

5. It's possible that in ancient Pre-Islamic times, Pashtuns had a Nowruz-type festival. But my assumption is that such a festival died out a long time ago and Nowruz was introduced by Persians for the reasons I mentioned above.

[jama0112]

No.

More like a persian thing

Honestly, if tajiks never got persianfied by iranians, i doubt nowruz even would be a thing in Afghanistan, the same goes for the middleeast+ Caucasus and Turkey too. Only from Tehran to a the middle of Azerbayjan(all ethnic and genetically persians) it would be a thing.

[Sarbani]

No.

More like a persian thing

Honestly, if tajiks never got persianfied by iranians, i doubt nowruz even would be a thing in Afghanistan, the same goes for the middleeast+ Caucasus and Turkey too. Only from Tehran to a the middle of Azerbayjan(all ethnic and genetically persians) it would be a thing.

If you agree it came from Persians to Pashtuns, then you should have voted "yes" i.e. "yes it came from Persians".

I should have added more info after the words "yes" and "no" to make it less confusing. But I hope people read this comment and vote correctly afterwards.

[jama0112]

Whoops, i didnt read that part.

I'm gonna vote right

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't believe it came from Persians, but perhaps the current flavor it has may have been reinvigorated by Persians. I believe Nawruz is a festival that has natural correspondences since people would plan migratory patterns around the Spring and Winter months.

[Sarbani]

I don't believe it came from Persians, but perhaps the current flavor it has may have been reinvigorated by Persians. I believe Nawruz is a festival that has natural correspondences since people would plan migratory patterns around the Spring and Winter months.

As I said, it makes sense for the festival to exist for reasons unrelated to Persian influence, but the fact is that it is completely non-existent in remote tribal regions like Waziristan, etc. When taking that into account, it makes sense to say that it came with the Persians. However, that doesn't rule out the possibility of a Nowruz-like holiday being celebrated by Pre-Islamic Pashtuns.

So one could say that the Persians bringing Nowruz to Pashtuns is "reviving" some very ancient Iranic tradition, however there isn't any continuity with the one that Pashtuns may have practiced in Pre-Islamic times and the one they practice today. The modern version was brought to Pashtuns by Persians after the practice completely disappeared (assuming it was practiced in the past).

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

As I said, it makes sense for the festival to exist for reasons unrelated to Persian influence, but the fact is that it is completely non-existent in remote tribal regions like Waziristan, etc. When taking that into account, it makes sense to say that it came with the Persians. However, that doesn't rule out the possibility of a Nowruz-like holiday being celebrated by Pre-Islamic Pashtuns.

So one could say that the Persians bringing Nowruz to Pashtuns is "reviving" some very ancient Iranic tradition, however there isn't any continuity with the one that Pashtuns may have practiced in Pre-Islamic times and the one they practice today. The modern version was brought to Pashtuns by Persians after the practice completely disappeared (assuming it was practiced in the past).

You're probably right, though my family does celebrate it, it seems it was mainly introduced within the past few generations as cultural shifts trended towards Urban and Persian speaking. Also, we're from Ghazni which is historically apart of the Frontier between Tajiks/Persian Speakers and Pashtuns.

Our roots are from the outskirts of Kandahar/Zabul however, and I don't hear much of any special focus on Nawruz as a holiday. Though the practice of migrating (we're originally Kuchi) was definitely something specified with specific acknowledgement among prior generations (i.e. before we started becoming settled peoples)

[Sarbani]

Our roots are from the outskirts of Kandahar/Zabul however, and I don't hear much of any special focus on Nawruz as a holiday. Though the practice of migrating (we're originally Kuchi) was definitely something specified with specific acknowledgement among prior generations (i.e. before we started becoming settled peoples)

I was aware that Nowruz is celebrated differently in Iran compared to Afghanistan, but its interesting to hear that different parts of Afghanistan celebrate it differently (i.e. there being more of a special focus on Nowruz in non-Pashtun regions).

Can you elaborate on the difference between how Nowruz is celebrated in Kandahar/Pashtun regions versus Ghazni/Persian-speaing regions?

[maneatinglizard]

Its often said that the reason its celebrated by Pashtuns in Afghanistan proper rather than in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa-North Balochistan is because of Desi influence in KP-NB. However, my opinion is of the opposite. I'd say its celebrated among Afghanistani Pashtuns because of influence from Persians being stronger there. Here are some reasons why:

I doubt it's a result of Persian influence, but perhaps Persian influence reinforced its celebration while Desi influence (which is stronger in even the frontier areas of Pakistan than many would admit) caused it to die out in Pakistan.

1. Shia Pashtuns in KP-NB celebrate Nowruz. Not only do Shia Pashtuns celebrate Nowruz, but so do Shia Desis.

Likely due to the influence of Iran on Shias post-Revolution.

If Desi influence was the reason that Sunni Pashtuns of KP-NB don't celebrate Nowruz, then Shia Pashtuns and Shia Desis wouldn't either celebrate Nowruz.

This doesn't make sense. It could be that Desi influence killed the practice in Pakistan, and then Iranian influence revived it among Shias. How do Shia Pashtuns celebrate it in Pakistan? If it's similar to how it's done in Iran, then it's definitely a recent practice and is unrelated to whether or not Shia Pashtuns celebrated it in the past.

2. Sunni Pashtuns from the tribal more isolated close to the border of Afghanistan (e.g. Waziristan) have little to no Desi influence and they have no tradition of celebrating Nowruz.

Not really true. I think Pakistani Pashtuns sometimes don't notice how much they've been Desified, which might make it seem like frontier Pashtuns aren't Desified at all, but it's pretty clear to Afghan Pashtuns. Even Afghan Pashtuns living in Pakistan have been Desified, and that's just after one generation.

3. Nowruz is celebrated in regions traditionally under the Persian sphere of influence. It's celebrated by Kurds, Azeris, Central Asian Turks, Volga Turks, and so on. So it's possible to conclude that the reason some Pashtuns celebrate Nowruz is cause of cultural influence from Persians. Pashtuns were always a tribal more isolated people so that would explain why it may not have been traditionally as common among Pashtuns compared to the other groups I mentioned.

It's likely that many of those groups celebrated Nowruz before coming under the influence of modern Persia. Pashtuns don't celebrate it the same way as Persians do (neither do Tajiks for that matter), which suggests it's not a direct influence.

4. Pashtuns of Afghanistan don't celebrate it to the same degree as Iranians do.

It's not a matter of degrees. Pashtuns (especially tribal ones) are not a wealthy group of people so obviously our celebrations can't be as elaborate as those of urban Iranians. But Pashtun celebrations in Afghanistan (especially the rural ones - in urban areas they're usually influenced by Tajik practices, which are in turn influenced somewhat by Iran) of Nowruz involve different practices than what Nowruz is associated with in Iran.

There isn't any Chaharshanbe Suri nor is there any mention of Amu Nowruz and Haji Firuz among Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

How old are figures like Amu Nowruz and Haji Firoz? I wouldn't be surprised if they were themselves new creations of Iranian nationalists post-twentieth century.

Anyway, their absence, as well as the lack of Charshanbe Suri is evidence that Pashtun Nowruz not coming from Iranian influence, not the other way around. If the practice was borrowed from Iran, how come we didn't adopt any of the associated practices that come with it?

Side note, but the fire-jumping of Charshanbe Suri actually was practiced in my village. However, I believe it was only done on Eid, not Nowruz.

5. It's possible that in ancient Pre-Islamic times, Pashtuns had a Nowruz-type festival. But my assumption is that such a festival died out a long time ago and Nowruz was introduced by Persians for the reasons I mentioned above.

Why would it die out? There was nothing that might've caused it to die out prior to the Desification brought on by British India. Pashtuns prior to that were always in close contact or directly controlled by Persianized kingdoms, so it stands to reason that any pre-Islamic Nowruz festival would've only been reinforced by the peoples Pashtuns had contact with, not killed off.

[maneatinglizard]

I was aware that Nowruz is celebrated differently in Iran compared to Afghanistan, but its interesting to hear that different parts of Afghanistan celebrate it differently (i.e. there being more of a special focus on Nowruz in non-Pashtun regions).

Can you elaborate on the difference between how Nowruz is celebrated in Kandahar/Pashtun regions versus Ghazni/Persian-speaing regions?

It's probably celebrated differently within Iran too. The Nowruz that you're exposed to in the West is an urban, consumerist development, and it's highly likely that many "important" parts of the modern celebration didn't exist 100 years ago, or were just random practices from various parts of Iran that were codified into "proper" rituals by the Persian nationalists of the early twentieth century.

I don't remember well how it was celebrated within my village (my family doesn't really celebrate it in America), but I wouldn't be surprised if it were different from the celebrations in Kandahar (as Kandahar has closer ties to Iran than Paktia).

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I was aware that Nowruz is celebrated differently in Iran compared to Afghanistan, but its interesting to hear that different parts of Afghanistan celebrate it differently (i.e. there being more of a special focus on Nowruz in non-Pashtun regions).

Can you elaborate on the difference between how Nowruz is celebrated in Kandahar/Pashtun regions versus Ghazni/Persian-speaing regions?

I think Nawruz boomed in popularity in Kandahar after the Taliban...the celebrations are more signs, music and poetry gatherings. People actually visit Shrines at Nowruz, so it's got a strong "Sufi" touch, but it is much more resigned.

Ghazni, especially Ghazni city it's like a festival vibe with lots of flamboyant colors and parites, the same way Milad Al Nabi or Eid is celebrated. it's actually called 'Eid-e-Norwuz by Persian speaking people in Afghanistan.

[faisalabadfabricstore]

I understand that Nowruz is renowned differently in Iran compared to Afghanistan, however, its interesting to know that even different components of Afghanistan rejoice it otherwise (i.e. there now being more of a distinctive focus on Nowruz in non-Pashtun areas ).