What is up with Southern KPK Pashtuns and Urdu?

[Traveller]

I've noticed the highly educated among Southern KPK(Kohat and beyond) Pashtuns tend to use a lot of Urdu to the point where they even speak Urdu with their kids. I don't have enough data on Marwats but judging from the people I have met online they tend to be proud Pashtuns.
I want to know:
A)Why does this happen?
B)Do people from Waziristan also do this?
C)What threat does this pose to the Pashto language and how can we stop this trend?

[Ambatin]

Pashto language will die out in PAkistan. Paki Pashtuns will become desi peoplel like Punjabi before Pakistan turns 100 years old.

[Samandri]

I've noticed Southern KPK(Kohat and beyond) Pashtuns tend to use a lot of Urdu to the point where they even speak Urdu with their kids.

After I met some Marwats on the internet that were very proud Pashtuns I though they must be different but now my aunt told me that she had some neighbors from Lakki Marwat who would speak Urdu with their kids.
I want to know:
A)Why does this happen?
B)Do people from Waziristan also do this?
C)What threat does this pose to the Pashto language and how can we stop this trend?

So you have reached to a big conclusion because some family in your aunt's city speak Urdu with their kids. I have also come across such a family from your Nowshera. Should i also declare that "whats up with Nowshera Pashtuns and Urdu?". I wont

About the usage of Urdu and English words in Pashto out of habit (even though they know the Pashto words for it), its more often done by people of Peshawar valley and i am saying this without any bias. Its because of increased literacy rate and urbanization of Peshawar valley , and more integration with Pakistan's mainstream than backward southern districts and FATA where relatively purer Pashto is spoken. If Pashto becomes a compulsory subject up to Matric, then there will more readers of Pashto books and more books in Pashto will be published (overall the book reading habit in all languages is in decline though).........books polishes your language

Now some families speaking Urdu with their kids, there are varieties of reasons for it. But i can assure you its urban thing and such families have usually spent time in big cities like Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. If Wife is non-Pashtun or Pashtun grown up in Karachi or Lahore, then such cases also occur. I have also come across a family from Mardan , both of parents were Pashtuns yet they were trying to teach Urdu to their kids. Husband was doing job in Islamabad, they were living there, and that must be the reason. Another such family was from Akorra Khattak, Nowshera and they were teaching Urdu to their kids even though they were living in Peshawar city. Another case was the couple from Charsadda whose daughter was speaking English which was quite surprising. Why this abnormality exists in urban centers? , some study must be done. In my opinion it has some thing to do with "Kala Angraiz" mentality, inferiority complex, and detachment from Pashtun society. The ones in Western countries lose Pashto because they are detached from Pashto society and are absorbing influences from cultures of respective countries. The same happens to the scattered Pashtun families in non-Pashtun cities of Punjab and Sindh.

[Traveller]

So you have reached to a big conclusion because some family in your aunt's city speak Urdu with their kids. I have also come across such a family from your Nowshera. Should i also declare that "whats up with Nowshera Pashtuns and Urdu?". I wont

About the usage of Urdu and English words in Pashto out of habit (even though they know the Pashto words for it), its more often done by people of Peshawar valley and i am saying this without any bias. Its because of increased literacy rate and urbanization of Peshawar valley , and more integration with Pakistan's mainstream than backward southern districts and FATA where relatively purer Pashto is spoken. If Pashto becomes a compulsory subject up to Matric, then there will more readers of Pashto books and more books in Pashto will be published (overall the book reading habit in all languages is in decline though).........books polishes your language

Now some families speaking Urdu with their kids, there are varieties of reasons for it. But i can assure you its urban thing and such families have usually spent time in big cities like Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. If Wife is non-Pashtun or Pashtun grown up in Karachi or Lahore, then such cases also occurs. I have also come across a family from Mardan , both of parents were Pashtuns yet they were trying to teach Urdu to their kids. Husband was doing job in Islamabad, they were living there, and that must be the reason. Another such family was from Akorra Khattak, Nowshera and they were teaching Urdu and English to their kids even though they were living in Peshawar city.

Sorry. I'll edit the post to make it sound less inflamattory. And you're right I need more data points before reaching a conclusion about Marwats, in fact I've never met a Marwat in real life. Also my aunt lives in Islamabad and that probably has something to do with itBut I do know some people, including relatives, from Kohat, Karak, and Hangu and there was a trend of overusage of Urdu among them, keep in mind I am only talking about educated people. And yes, on average Peshawar valley Pashto is less pure but once again I am only talking about educated people.

[Traveller]

The ones in Western countries lose Pashto because they are detached from Pashto society and are absorbing influences from cultures of respective countries. The same happens to the scattered Pashtun families in non-Pashtun cities of Punjab and Sindh.

Yes Western Pashtuns are the worst. Out of all the Pashtuns born and raised in the west who live in my area, only my brother and I can speak decent Pashto(largely due to the fact that we go to Pakistan frequently). Of course I'm trying to change the situation by encouraging them to speak Pashto when we are sitting together, correcting mistakes, and teaching them Pashto vocabulary. I also used to have serious deficiencies in my Pashto but learning to read and write as well as listening to Pashto radio programs has greatly improved it to where people are telling me that "pata na lagi che ta bahar loy shiwe ye."

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] , I know Pashtun families living in Islamabad, Karachi etc and they still speak Pashto correctly, they haven't forgotten the language

[Zaadgaan Kabul]

So you have reached to a big conclusion because some family in your aunt's city speak Urdu with their kids. I have also come across such a family from your Nowshera. Should i also declare that "whats up with Nowshera Pashtuns and Urdu?". I wont

About the usage of Urdu and English words in Pashto out of habit (even though they know the Pashto words for it), its more often done by people of Peshawar valley and i am saying this without any bias. Its because of increased literacy rate and urbanization of Peshawar valley , and more integration with Pakistan's mainstream than backward southern districts and FATA where relatively purer Pashto is spoken. If Pashto becomes a compulsory subject up to Matric, then there will more readers of Pashto books and more books in Pashto will be published (overall the book reading habit in all languages is in decline though).........books polishes your language

Now some families speaking Urdu with their kids, there are varieties of reasons for it. But i can assure you its urban thing and such families have usually spent time in big cities like Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. If Wife is non-Pashtun or Pashtun grown up in Karachi or Lahore, then such cases also occur. I have also come across a family from Mardan , both of parents were Pashtuns yet they were trying to teach Urdu to their kids. Husband was doing job in Islamabad, they were living there, and that must be the reason. Another such family was from Akorra Khattak, Nowshera and they were teaching Urdu to their kids even though they were living in Peshawar city. Another case was the couple from Charsadda whose daughter was speaking English which was quite surprising. Why this abnormality exists in urban centers? , some study must be done. In my opinion it has some thing to do with "Kala Angraiz" mentality, inferiority complex, and detachment from Pashtun society. The ones in Western countries lose Pashto because they are detached from Pashto society and are absorbing influences from cultures of respective countries. The same happens to the scattered Pashtun families in non-Pashtun cities of Punjab and Sindh.

Are these pseudo-''arguments'' for real or do you just want to please your mental and physical feelings? A political, demographic analyst and a linguist would laugh about your ''arguments''. But explain for us what is this 'proud Pashtun'? What makes a Pashtun a Pashtun? Let´s assume Paki soldiers erase a Waziristani family except one child of it. They take it to Panjab where the child will raise among Panjabis into a Panjabi family. Is he still a Waziristani? Is he a PROUD Pashtun, Urdu/Panjabi speaking one? What makes him still a Pashtun? His smell? His citizenship? His blood? His oddy gens? Maybe his tail (if he has one)? His skin colour? You want to be a Jew, yet you are formally a Muslim. A Jew can still claim he is a Jew when he is no more a red-brown skinned city dweller thousands of years ago but what can you do? What do Pashtuns have that other don´t have and you feel proud of it? Architects? Astronauts? A civilisation? A translation of the Qoran after 1400years? An education and enlightend youth? Internationally in fields of science, sport, politics, culture, ... brightened names? Have you domesticated a special race of plants, animals, herbs, human race...? Just a serious question with all respect to every single Reader and Participant this forum but do you really think ''Pashtuns'' will survive the next 150 years? Or are you even open minded and intelligent enought to understand and to think that the whole identity of Pashtuns will change again as it was the case several times in history (the question, if Pashtuns will experience a positive change or even a worse than now should be in the first stance unimportant)? You should leave this sick Ismail Yoon Syndrom (being first an Afghan, then a Pashtun, after a Pashtun being a Muslim and at the last stance phase a human being) before you turn to Ismail Yoon himself. Have you ever studied migration of peoples? Have you take a deep and close watch on the last 1700 years how the world demographically changed? It was always this one scenario the only case - a majority group absorbed within view decades, sometimes also after 150 years, a smaller group. For Pashtuns it means that the Panjabis and Sindhis and Baloochis will be in future your next identities if all of them don´t get a new and a common one. And that is the case because Pashtuns are regionally in the SANDWICH position. Of course the bigger brother will be the winner. This mass migrations and cultural and political invasion first starts in the urbane areas and from there it will spread like cancer in the 3rd stadium . You can not flee, not even the Waziristanis. People with German ancestory became within 74 years in Poland uprooted and they do no more call themself Germans. Half of Denmark is no more Germany. Northern Italy is no more Germany. The whole eastern part of Holland is no more Germany. The same goes for any other country!

The problem I see is that your criminal ethno-fascist leaders and pseudo-scholars who would fit to be traditional donkey riders than people working for some scientific institutions (the results we have seen! ->creating history, faking history, faking literatur... and still failing) have blinded and deafed you with their lies and their 20th century pseudo nationalism which proved to be false and bloody for Pashtuns. You will have the same problem in Afghanistan as well. The mistake you Pashtuns do is you know yourself as Pashtuns and not as human being and then you wonder why B52 or other death bringer turning your whole life to hell, killing at least nearly 2 Generations.If you want to have a future come down from Pashtun here, Pashtun there, Pashtun pride here and Pashtun pride there. If you still don´t understand what i mean because of your shortened mentality then think about this easy example...

Why should one call Ahmad Khan Abdali, a Panjabi ''Pashtun'', a blood thirsty killer and a thief, a rapist, who always used Islam (Jihad) for personal and family gains, a hero, with no contribution to culture, art, music, architecture, peace, freedom, ... while we call a Djingis Khan, a man who killed nearly 56 Million people, looted, raped and and and, not different than Ahmad Khan BUT A MAN OF COURAGE, OF SENSE, A MAN OF FARSIGHTEDNESS whose children and nephews became after the Ghorids the biggest promoter of culture, music, language, architecture, science ..., a criminal mass murderer??? WHERE IS THE LOGIC? Do youn see why you have Talibanism and now also Daeshism in your society? Learn from this guy who have understood reality

روشن فکری و افشاء گرای افغانستان Roshanfekri Wa Afshagarayi Afghanistan - Videos | Facebook

[Sarbani]

It happens in Swabi as well. People are just very self-loathing here because of Paki-Indic propaganda. They will know the Pashto equivalent to most words but say the Urdu equivalent on purpose just to appear "civilized". They also say words like "ji" a lot just like Indics do. And use Indic terms like "bhai jan" and "baji". I think it's most rampant in the Yousafzai regions (Peshawar, Mardan, etc) cause a guy from Quetta said that Peshawari Pashto is far more polluted than Quettawal Pashto.

[Charsi Malang]

It happens in Swabi as well. People are just very self-loathing here because of Paki-Indic propaganda. They will know the Pashto equivalent to most words but say the Urdu equivalent on purpose just to appear "civilized". They also say words like "ji" a lot just like Indics do. And use Indic terms like "bhai jan" and "baji". I think it's most rampant in the Yousafzai regions (Peshawar, Mardan, etc) cause a guy from Quetta said that Peshawari Pashto is far more polluted than Quettawal Pashto.

Pakistani Pashto is a joke man. It is so unfortunate that when you go back home you see your own tribespeople abundantly and proudly using terms that my Indian colleagues use all the time. Every time I go back home I see this more and more. Not that I am against Indians but I am against the idea of ditching your own language totally for another.

Another thing I have noticed which is even more annoying is that when they start talking about religion they imedeately switch to Urdu... lol... I never understood that.

[Saleh]

Are these pseudo-''arguments'' for real or do you just want to please your mental and physical feelings? A political, demographic analyst and a linguist would laugh about your ''arguments''. But explain for us what is this 'proud Pashtun'? What makes a Pashtun a Pashtun? Let´s assume Paki soldiers erase a Waziristani family except one child of it. They take it to Panjab where the child will raise among Panjabis into a Panjabi family. Is he still a Waziristani? Is he a PROUD Pashtun, Urdu/Panjabi speaking one? What makes him still a Pashtun? His smell? His citizenship? His blood? His oddy gens? Maybe his tail (if he has one)? His skin colour? You want to be a Jew, yet you are formally a Muslim. A Jew can still claim he is a Jew when he is no more a red-brown skinned city dweller thousands of years ago but what can you do? What do Pashtuns have that other don´t have and you feel proud of it? Architects? Astronauts? A civilisation? A translation of the Qoran after 1400years? An education and enlightend youth? Internationally in fields of science, sport, politics, culture, ... brightened names? Have you domesticated a special race of plants, animals, herbs, human race...? Just a serious question with all respect to every single Reader and Participant this forum but do you really think ''Pashtuns'' will survive the next 150 years? Or are you even open minded and intelligent enought to understand and to think that the whole identity of Pashtuns will change again as it was the case several times in history (the question, if Pashtuns will experience a positive change or even a worse than now should be in the first stance unimportant)? You should leave this sick Ismail Yoon Syndrom (being first an Afghan, then a Pashtun, after a Pashtun being a Muslim and at the last stance phase a human being) before you turn to Ismail Yoon himself. Have you ever studied migration of peoples? Have you take a deep and close watch on the last 1700 years how the world demographically changed? It was always this one scenario the only case - a majority group absorbed within view decades, sometimes also after 150 years, a smaller group. For Pashtuns it means that the Panjabis and Sindhis and Baloochis will be in future your next identities if all of them don´t get a new and a common one. And that is the case because Pashtuns are regionally in the SANDWICH position. Of course the bigger brother will be the winner. This mass migrations and cultural and political invasion first starts in the urbane areas and from there it will spread like cancer in the 3rd stadium . You can not flee, not even the Waziristanis. People with German ancestory became within 74 years in Poland uprooted and they do no more call themself Germans. Half of Denmark is no more Germany. Northern Italy is no more Germany. The whole eastern part of Holland is no more Germany. The same goes for any other country!

The problem I see is that your criminal ethno-fascist leaders and pseudo-scholars who would fit to be traditional donkey riders than people working for some scientific institutions (the results we have seen! ->creating history, faking history, faking literatur... and still failing) have blinded and deafed you with their lies and their 20th century pseudo nationalism which proved to be false and bloody for Pashtuns. You will have the same problem in Afghanistan as well. The mistake you Pashtuns do is you know yourself as Pashtuns and not as human being and then you wonder why B52 or other death bringer turning your whole life to hell, killing at least nearly 2 Generations.If you want to have a future come down from Pashtun here, Pashtun there, Pashtun pride here and Pashtun pride there. If you still don´t understand what i mean because of your shortened mentality then think about this easy example...

Why should one call Ahmad Khan Abdali, a Panjabi ''Pashtun'', a blood thirsty killer and a thief, a rapist, who always used Islam (Jihad) for personal and family gains, a hero, with no contribution to culture, art, music, architecture, peace, freedom, ... while we call a Djingis Khan, a man who killed nearly 56 Million people, looted, raped and and and, not different than Ahmad Khan BUT A MAN OF COURAGE, OF SENSE, A MAN OF FARSIGHTEDNESS whose children and nephews became after the Ghorids the biggest promoter of culture, music, language, architecture, science ..., a criminal mass murderer??? WHERE IS THE LOGIC? Do youn see why you have Talibanism and now also Daeshism in your society? Learn from this guy who have understood reality

روشن فکری و افشاء گرای افغانستان Roshanfekri Wa Afshagarayi Afghanistan - Videos | Facebook

your argument is flawed. Based on the same logic, the entire world should become English, speak English, adopt English culture, etc. all because Anglos conquered most regions on the planet, and are today the dominant group on the planet ei. ''big brother''.

that will never happen and it should never be allowed.

As long as people don't plan on killing/opressing other ethnic groups, what's wrong if they feel proud of their identity, language, culture, etc. ?

[Samandri]

So you have reached to a big conclusion because some family in your aunt's city speak Urdu with their kids. I have also come across such a family from your Nowshera. Should i also declare that "whats up with Nowshera Pashtuns and Urdu?". I wont

About the usage of Urdu and English words in Pashto out of habit (even though they know the Pashto words for it), its more often done by people of Peshawar valley and i am saying this without any bias. Its because of increased literacy rate and urbanization of Peshawar valley , and more integration with Pakistan's mainstream than backward southern districts and FATA where relatively purer Pashto is spoken. If Pashto becomes a compulsory subject up to Matric, then there will more readers of Pashto books and more books in Pashto will be published (overall the book reading habit in all languages is in decline though).........books polishes your language

Now some families speaking Urdu with their kids, there are varieties of reasons for it. But i can assure you its urban thing and such families have usually spent time in big cities like Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. If Wife is non-Pashtun or Pashtun grown up in Karachi or Lahore, then such cases also occur. I have also come across a family from Mardan , both of parents were Pashtuns yet they were trying to teach Urdu to their kids. Husband was doing job in Islamabad, they were living there, and that must be the reason. Another such family was from Akorra Khattak, Nowshera and they were teaching Urdu to their kids even though they were living in Peshawar city. Another case was the couple from Charsadda whose daughter was speaking English which was quite surprising. Why this abnormality exists in urban centers? , some study must be done. In my opinion it has some thing to do with "Kala Angraiz" mentality, inferiority complex, and detachment from Pashtun society. The ones in Western countries lose Pashto because they are detached from Pashto society and are absorbing influences from cultures of respective countries. The same happens to the scattered Pashtun families in non-Pashtun cities of Punjab and Sindh.

Bottle it up Ghilam Jam, you are exploding all your emotions about Pashtuns like this in every second post.......its unreadable

[Kaushika]

unfortunate that when you go back home you see your own tribespeople abundantly and proudly using terms that my Indian colleagues use all the time.

such as ?

[Traveller]

Some of you guys are being too extreme here. Most Pashtuns aren't self-loathing and they are proud of their heritage. Most of these impurities will quickly go away after a few years if we unite all Pakistani Pashtuns under one province and make Pashto an official languagethere. Also the use of "ji" especially is due to a cultural difference between KPK Pashtuns(esp Peshawar valley ones) and other Pashtuns and has been around for a long time. In general we are more "polite" than other pashtuns such as those of FATA, North Balochistan, and Afghanistan. If I don't use "ji" with my elders I'll be viewed as disrespectful. As for other terms such as "Bhai Jan" I personally use them as my most people in my family do but I'm not a big fan. As Pashtuns become more urbanized they're going to pick up some of the habits of urban people, our goal should be to make sure Pashto language is preserved for future generations.

[Baserka]

Yes, lets add the rotten ingredient to your favourite dish and wait for the magic.

[Traveller]

Yes, lets add the rotten ingredient to your favourite dish and wait for the magic.

Drink some water. You need to cool down.