Afghan sense of History and Pride

[KhalsaWarrior]

KhalsaWarrior, I have a copy of An Advanced History of India (vol 1) written by R.C. Majumdar, H.C. Raychaudhuri and Kalikinkar Datta and I always refer to it for anything historical. I was surprised to see that they had positively described men like Mahmud Ghaznavi ('the breaker of idols') and gave him credit for his skills as a cavalry commander and a military tactician. He was not vilified the way Shivaji is in our Pakistan Studies books by being referred to as a mere thug.

LZ, you could certainly be right about the praise for Ghaznavi. What I was referring to in my post was more around general views and not just militaristic and exclusively wrt history textbooks since the query was about the average Indian.

I am aware that all of these conquerors were definitely more advanced in military skills and tactics than the Indian rulers that they defeated. Although none of Abdali, Ghori or Ghaznavi are vilified, they certainly are mentioned in less-glorifying terms than others. At best there isn't more than 100-200 words of text around them. Except for Abdali who came for like 17 times! Another reason for lack of coverage of them in history textbooks is due to a sense of pity on the student taking the exam, since we had so many conquerors!

Coming to Shivaji in Pak textbooks, I think hate for India and Hindus in particular is central to Pakistan's existence. It justifies their existence and their country's inception. Not only does this act as a barrier for peace initiatives, I am also pained to think about the Hindu minorities that currently live in Pakistan. How would their kids feel when reading about such comments about Hindus and Hindu rulers? Such a society based on hate is headed for a very dangerous path.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

my understanding is that Ghori, Ghaznavi and Abdali were hated for their brutality against the Hindus and Sikhs

If I was a Sikh I would despise and hate Ahmad Shah Baba.....

[KhalsaWarrior]

my understanding is that Ghori, Ghaznavi and Abdali were hated for their brutality against the Hindus and Sikhs

If I was a Sikh I would despise and hate Ahmad Shah Baba.....

Well, the Sikh holy book, the Granth Sahib and other scriptures do paint him as a cruel man. He is one of the primary villains in Sikh history.

Frankly, I look upon him unfavorably but I don't despise him. He was a conqueror and a man of his times. Viewing historical people with contemporary lenses isn't always the best way to judge them.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Well, the Sikh holy book, the Granth Sahib and other scriptures do paint him as a cruel man. He is one of the primary villains in Sikh history.

Frankly, I look upon him unfavorably but I don't despise him. He was a conqueror and a man of his times. Viewing historical people with contemporary lenses isn't always the best way to judge them.

spoken like an intelligent man

one of my best friends is Sikh, and Ive read some of his Sikh history books, and needless to say, it wasnt very favourable to Afghans

then again, if Ranjit Singh filled the Kaaba with dead pigs, I wouldnt be too fond of him either lol

[KhalsaWarrior]

How?

Afghanlady, let me take a stab at answering that and Ghaznavi can confirm or add if required. I have quoted a wikilink below that should give you some idea. Though I am not a fan of quoting wiki to settle arguments but since we are just trying to extract information and get a general idea, it should work ok here.

Again, I think its best not to judge people or communities based on historical events.

Chhotaa Ghallooghaaraa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wadda Ghalughara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[PakistaniWazir]

a good sikh is a sikh who is member of khalistan movement

[KhalsaWarrior]

a good sikh is a sikh who is member of khalistan movement

1. Is that the topic being discussed here?
2. Are you ok with non-Muslims telling you who a good Muslim is?

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

a good sikh is a sikh who is member of khalistan movement

how about a Pakhtun who is a member of Independent Pakhtunkhwa?

unbelievable how you, as a Pakhtun, have been brainwashed by Pakistanis to get involved in their inter Indian/Desi struggle

Pakhtuns have no aminity towards Indians. We have no reason to.

[KhalsaWarrior]

then again, if Ranjit Singh filled the Kaaba with dead pigs, I wouldnt be too fond of him either lol

You know, I have heard that too along with converting Lahore's Badshahi mosque into a stable, but I am not sure if there are sources to back that up. Though during those times, it would have made sense to do such a thing as a retribution for defiling the Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple) in Amritsar. The reason I doubt it because Ranjit Singh's army had Muslim Punjabi regiments as well and he ruled over lands that were predominantly Muslim. Such an act wouldn't have gone down well with them.

Here's an extract -

In 1802, soon after his occupation of Amritsar, he employed former soldiers from the East India Company's army to train his newly formed infantry platoons. He even sent some of his own men to Ludhiana to study the British methods of training and tactics. As Sikhs generally looked down upon infantry service, he recruited Purbias (soldiers of fortune from the Gangetic plains), Punjabi Muslims, Afghans and, later, Gurkhas as well. These troops were soon tested during the short campaign against Ahmad Khan Sial of Jharig and the zamindars of Uchch during the winter of 1803-04.

Source - Army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

And another -

How did this one-eyed Sikh warrior manage to bring together Punjabi Musalmans, Sikhs, Hindus and Pushtun Musalmans together in this one great Sikh-dominated state remains a mystery. It is said that a calligrapher tried to sell a beautifully copy of the Quran to Ranjit Singh’s Foreign Minister Fakir Azizuddin who wouldn’t buy it. Ranjit Singh overheard the argument, took the Holy Quran, kissed it and bought it for a price in excess of what is being asked. When asked why he replied “God gave me one eye – so that I could see all religions with the same eye”. Our historians would have us believe that this man defiled the Badshahi Mosque.

Source - Ranjit Singh : The Quintessential Indus Man « Pak Tea House

[KhalsaWarrior]

Khalsawarrior I heard Ranjit Singhs Army had a lot of Pashtuns in it.

It probably did as the army was very multi-ethnic and multi-religious. And I mean no disrespect but many Indian kings kept Pashtun mercenaries in their as they were known for their valour and battle hardiness.

And I suppose that the Sikhs came to be known as fierce warriors themselves, as they had earned their stripes fighting with and against the Pashtuns. As we learn more from our opponents than our allies.

[KhalsaWarrior]

Khalsa,
Pashtuns and Punjabis are both known to be martial-race by the British.

Not really all Punjabis just the Jatt tribe of the Punjabis.

I know. I am a Jatt.