womens role in pashtunwali.

[faye]

i found this explanation very clear and as i suspected, gave information on how women have a much more important role, than the cliched, 'locked in the house', description.
it also talks about the difficulty upholding the rules of the pashtun society, under the urban living, central government control and displacement situation.

so..is it correct?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/ilsp/research/kakar.pdf

[Manzareh]

Its true, when my grandmother was alive she was the head of our family and last decision about anything was down to her and no man had more respect or a bigger say than her.

Respect to you for faye for thinking for yourself despite so much focus on negatives about pashtuns by so called pashtuns here in the forum. Pashtunwali/pashtun culture has constantly got fingers pointed at it by these bigots.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I actually posted this article as a source as well and Ms. Kakar highlights exactly the things which are heinous about Pashtun society in regards to women very succinctly.

Furthermore, male Pashtun autonomy is abusive to women when women are given as compensation in blood feuds, when women are killed in honor killings, when a widow is forced to marry her brother-in-law (especially if she lacks a male heir), and when women are kept from educational and health resources. In the end, for Pashtunwali to survive, it must adapt its concepts and reduce Pashtun autonomy in order to comply more with a state government system, and it must find a means of balancing power, even in socially and economically disparate conditions.

[Manzareh]

Funny how people that have no attachment to afghanistan/Pashtuns (apart from on the internet) go on like some core authority on afghan/pashtun culture. I can spot these people a mile away, cant blame em though..they’ve been brought up in the west with no other references for their own identity’s apart from what they hear, turns out to be a deadly catalyst for stereo typical thinking.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

yes especially people who think Pashtun culture doesn't incorporate dance or engage in music. But have endorsed equally ignorant fanatical doctrines like Wahhabism.

[faye]

I actually posted this article as a source as well and Ms. Kakar highlights exactly the things which are heinous about Pashtun society in regards to women very succinctly.

Furthermore, male Pashtun autonomy is abusive to women when women are given as compensation in blood feuds, when women are killed in honor killings, when a widow is forced to marry her brother-in-law (especially if she lacks a male heir), and when women are kept from educational and health resources. In the end, for Pashtunwali to survive, it must adapt its concepts and reduce Pashtun autonomy in order to comply more with a state government system, and it must find a means of balancing power, even in socially and economically disparate conditions.

i saw that and i agree, but typically, you only point out the negative. all the positives in the article, contradict your accusations against pashtun society as ONLY abusive and oppressive of women.

i heard so many negatives about the state of women in india, greece and muslim countries, but when i went to these places, i saw that women also had their own power place within their systems. from the western view, it is considered that the woman have more freedom but within these societies, for hundreds, thousands of years, they had a structure, that they created and that worked for them.

afghanistan has had so many years of war and destabilisation, that one must LOGICALLY expect that there will be disruptions to the balance within these normally fluidly working rules. poverty would also be a cause of imbalance.

i have seen people of afghanistan, both mothers and fathers in videos and articles, saying that they want their children to go to school and better themselves and their society, but afghanistan has been an agricultural and nomadic tribal country. people were needed for work around the homes and the fields or pastures, so education in a school, was not the important thing, as it is for todays society.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

i saw that and i agree, but typically, you only point out the negative. all the positives in the article, contradict your accusations against pashtun society as ONLY abusive and oppressive of women.

.

There's a reason for that ..people like Khushal try to potray Pashtunwali and Pashun culture as somehow morally superior ignoring its flaws.

Also Pashtuns are MEGA arrogant and pompous people (don't worry Faye I'm anticipating your smart ass towards me already), they'll never admit anything is wrong with them unless you bash them over the head with their flaws and short comings.

It's only then will people change When they see the things they do and the customs they have are more damaging than useful.

[faye]

oh..so tell us how wonderful you and your american culture is, that YOU can give guidance for the better to pashtuns.
what? dropping uranium bombs and polluting environments so WOMEN give birth to deformed CHILDREN? pedophiles utilising the internet for connecting with other pedophiles and passing on child rape videos, using humans in poor countries as guinea pigs for your paharma corps, creating more efficient war machines for murder of 'foreigners', etc etc etc.?

rack off and have your big ego battle on the other thread. i am asking if the details in this article, about pashtunwali are correct.
we have already seen your raves. you are just repeating yourself.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

false dichotomy Faye, I'm not advocating American culture.

I'm aware of America's flaws and when dealing with Americans I voice them. It's the Pashtuns turn to be on the hot seat.

by the way the depleted uranium card is getting a little over used. It almost seems like you're exploiting the victims of depleted Uranium just to boost your egotistic forum rants. Which is pretty pathological if you ask me.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

rack off and have your big ego battle on the other thread. i am asking if the details in this article, about pashtunwali are correct.
we have already seen your raves. you are just repeating yourself.

Well sure much of this article is correct, but the parts regarding women's influence in domestic affairs mean almost nothing in terms of women's social empowerment and the autonomy of women in respects to their own destiny. The fact Pashtun mothers "match make" the marriages of their children is of very little significance over all. Everyone in Pashtun society is well aware of the infamous pattern of a Pashtun Mother-In-Law unleashing egregious abuse against the daughter in law. Almost as if she's acting out some sort of "abused victimhood" syndrome where she co-opts the abuse she herself experienced on another woman to displace the traumatic impact her abuse had on her.

Hardly a healthy environment for women

[یاسمینه]

It seems to me that we do not notice that there are mainly mothers who provide children with different values, patterns of behavior, reproduce stereotypes, bad anf good. That's why I think it is futile to blame only men, because women also have a stake in perpetuating negative stereotypes.
One is sure, people usually underestimate the power and potential influence of Pashtun women.

[DaZahroJaam.]

It seems to me that we do not notice that there are mainly mothers who provide children with different values, patterns of behavior, reproduce stereotypes, bad anf good. That's why I think it is futile to blame only men, because women also have a stake in perpetuating negative stereotypes.
One is sure, people usually underestimate the power and potential influence of Pashtun women.

yeah but what happens when women are prevented from becoming self actualized themselves?? How can they be held responsible for doing something that they don't understand??

[یاسمینه]

That's why I wrote about perpetuating negative stereotypes, because this process not necessarily must be done deliberately and with an understanding of possible consequences. And of course I don't blame anyone.

[DaZahroJaam.]

well, I blame educated men who pretend nothing is wrong. Men ought to be educated on the importance of education for women. Someone has to take responsibility for educating these women and in a male dominated society, it has got to be men.

[یاسمینه]

Is education free in Afghanistan? I know nothing about it.