Pashtun system of marriage has benefits...

[khushal]

In Pashtun culture, a brother takes his brother's wife when if he dies; that's DISGUSTING and also HARRAM.

This is not true. The brother is responsible for his brothers family including taking care of them. But marriage has to be something both consent to.

It isn't; that's what Pashtunwali teaches; in Islam only Nabi(saw) did this, but Aisha(ra) was exceptionally mature and an exceptional woman. Islamic Law requires physical and mental maturity. It is not aged defined; but the MINIMAL age of marriage is after puberty. But this can vary individually. But they must be Baligh or else the marriage is not Ja'iz.

This is also not true. Where does it say that pashtunwali teaches people to marry 9 year olds. Your full of BS like usual.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

^^^You cant accept the challenge because you always lose debates against me. how did I change goal posts?

before you merely said that a person would be shunned; now you're talking about being elected a Mashar, which is a WHOLE new standard. Hence changing goal posts. AS USUAL. If you "win" all our debates why do most of your arguments lack any referentiable information in support of them? Oh I know why, because they're made up!

checkmate.

[khushal]

before you merely said that a person would be shunned; now you're talking about being elected a Mashar, which is a WHOLE new standard. Hence changing goal posts. AS USUAL. If you "win" all our debates why do most of your arguments lack any referentiable information in support of them? Oh I know why, because they're made up!

checkmate.

Your a complete idiot. You claimed that Imran Khan is embraced by the pashtuns as though he is a direct representative of them. He did not grow up in the rural areas nor does he represent their interests. He represents the pakistani states interests and represents the pakistani state. A masher is someone that is from them, by them and for them so he would be truly embraced by them. Go ahead you should be able to find one out there that is divorced. You can do it Champ.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is not true. The brother is responsible for his brothers family including taking care of them. But marriage has to be something both consent to.

This is also not true. Where does it say that pashtunwali teaches people to marry 9 year olds. Your full of BS like usual.

You're committing a straw-man fallacy. I never says it "teaches it" it however sanctions it as acceptable without any consideration of the development and maturation of the young girl involved.



You are a LIAR!!!

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/ilsp/research/kakar.pdf

Furthermore, male Pashtun autonomy is abusive to women when women are given as compensation in blood feuds, when women are killed in honor killings, when a widow is forced to marry her brother-in-law (especially if she lacks a male heir), and when women are kept from educational and health resources. In the end, for Pashtunwali to survive, it must adapt its concepts and reduce Pashtun autonomy in order to comply more with a state government system, and it must find a means of balancing power, even in socially and economically disparate conditions.

another source which discusses it.

http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/AAN_DoingPashto.pdf

show some sources which refute it.

[faye]

yes. man had kids and took care of them. man did a good deed.

a pagan may have done a good deed too, that may not have needed a reward for the good deed after death.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Your a complete idiot. You claimed that Imran Khan is embraced by the pashtuns as though he is a direct representative of them. He did not grow up in the rural areas nor does he represent their interests. He represents the pakistani states interests and represents the pakistani state. A masher is someone that is from them, by them and for them so he would be truly embraced by them. Go ahead you should be able to find one out there that is divorced. You can do it Champ.

Whether he's a direct representative is COMPLETELY irrelevant; he's embraced and accepted and is deemed a hero and people take pride in him JUST because he claims Pashtun heritage. The Pashtunwali flies out the window when prestige is involved in it.

Stop discussing irrelevant issues; We're not discussing Pakistani state interests; We're talking about "Sarhadi" Pashtuns fawning over this guy; which many do despite his divorces.

[khushal]

You're committing a straw-man fallacy. I never says it "teaches it" it however sanctions it as acceptable without any consideration of the development and maturation of the young girl involved.

dont change your own words. you used the word "teach" in your own post but any how it does not even sanction it as acceptable. Where did you get that from?

You are a LIAR!!!
http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/...arch/kakar.pdf

This paper is more the opinion of the author. Pashtunwali is not really written down and it is adaptive to the envoronment at hand as the author states:

It is necessary first to understand legislation and authority outside of their more common
state-bound usage. In the context of customary and tribal law in Afghanistan, legislation occurs
where adjudication takes place (by the person who judges or arbitrates), since there are no
codified laws and there is only a vague sense of precedence. While there are specific laws that
comprise part of the overarching concepts in Pashtunwali, they are few in number and they differ
from region to region and among social classes; they are thus hard to pin down for the purposes
of this paper. Therefore, in the context of this paper, legislation will be defined as the enactment
of laws that are neither codified nor are part of a corpus of state or regional laws. In the
legislation of customary law, community councils and leaders draw from many different legal
systems, such as local customs, tribal laws, Islamic law, and state law. Communal leaders are
interested in reaching a decision that is most acceptable to the mood of the community at the
time the event happened, as well as one that will be in the best interests of the community as a
whole. Through publicly enacting norms that fulfill the precepts of Pashtunwali, such as honor,
hospitality, gender boundaries, and the institution of jirga, the Pashtun maintains a specific social
order and furthermore sustains a religious-ethnic identity.

There is no evidence in your source that proves Pashtunwali endorses forcing the widow to marry her brother in law, it gives the choice, but you have to understand that this system exists because there is no governing authority so there is no enforcer. If people are not doing the right thing you cant blame the code much like if muslims are not doing the right thing you can not blame the message of islam or america being the murder capital of the world does not mean the American legal system endorses murder.

Your putting blame in the wrong place.

[khushal]

a pagan may have done a good deed too, that may not have needed a reward for the good deed after death.

exactly, your proving my point, that is why it is as old as man or even older. Animals also do good deeds, are they worried about their afterlife?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

dont change your own words. you used the word "teach" in your own post but any how it does not even sanction it as acceptable. Where did you get that from?

Well present the quote and look at the context.

There is no evidence in your source that proves Pashtunwali endorses forcing the widow to marry her brother in law,

No the commentaries are opinions; the reference to acts is her research. Nice try Khushal; no the blame is in the right place; Pashtun culture. That's where it stems from

This is evidence that you're wrong. A Pashtun woman herself who has been to Afghanistan confirms it WHERE IS YOUR RESEARCH that debunks this? By the way you also ignored the other link which also affirms it, which is also research. So Two independent sources verify the same practice. It also affirms already known information by my own experiences. This stuff isn't made up.

[khushal]

Whether he's a direct representative is COMPLETELY irrelevant; he's embraced and accepted and is deemed a hero and people take pride in him JUST because he claims Pashtun heritage. The Pashtunwali flies out the window when prestige is involved in it.

Stop discussing irrelevant issues; We're not discussing Pakistani state interests; We're talking about "Sarhadi" Pashtuns fawning over this guy; which many do despite his divorces.

your going in a circular argument. Since he is an outsider, his westernized or panjabized culture which is the one he grew up in is not ridiculed. So did you find the elusive divorced Masher yet?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

your going in a circular argument. Since he is an outsider, his westernized or panjabized culture which is the one he grew up in is not ridiculed. So did you find the elusive divorced Masher yet?

That's not what his open embrace by Pashtuns in Pakistan says

you've already been shown to be totally a liar numerous times. I definitely will not take your word on it

[khushal]

No the commentaries are opinions; the reference to acts is her research. Nice try Khushal; no the blame is in the right place; Pashtun culture. That's where it stems from

This is evidence that you're wrong. A Pashtun woman herself who has been to Afghanistan confirms it WHERE IS YOUR RESEARCH that debunks this? By the way you also ignored the other link which also affirms it, which is also research. So Two independent sources verify the same practice. It also affirms already known information by my own experiences. This stuff isn't made up.

Your second source states the following:

The rules of conduct of Pashtunwali follow the dichotomy of honour and shame. Behaviour, consequently, is guided by the question as to how it is evaluated in the eyes of others according to the common understanding of honour and shame..

So this proves my point. Someone forcing a woman to marry them is shameful in Pashtun society therefore Pashtunwali would condemn this. The problem is that there is no enforcement agency to enforce Pashtunwali. Like I said your putting blame in the wrong place.

[khushal]

Well present the quote and look at the context.

Here is your exact quote:

It isn't; that's what Pashtunwali teaches;

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Here is your exact quote:

THE WHOLE quote , try again and THE LINK please

[khushal]

That's not what his open embrace by Pashtuns in Pakistan says

you've already been shown to be totally a liar numerous times. I definitely will not take your word on it

Pashtuns will embrace anyone, they are not prejeduce and respects other cultures. But they will not allow anyone like him to represent them like the way a masher represents them.

But keep looking, find that divorced masher, if anyone can do it, you can, since you have good google skills.