Pashtun system of marriage has benefits...

[Kushan Prince]

A woman should realize that when marrying a Pashtun(Afghan), you are also marrying the family.

Is this implyed to non pashtun women?

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

Is this implyed to non pashtun women?

not just non-pashtun women, but women from the western or modernized cultures.

Arab-Berber, Central Asian Turk, Kurd, Persian, Punjabi, Indian/Bengali and Indonesia-Malay women are anyways fully aware how a PAshtun marriage works because this type of marriage is prevalent in a gargantuan geographic boundary, as such their understanind of marriage is the same as Pashtuns. Islam makes the vital customs more similar.


which is why the region roughly corresponds to the geographic Islamic world, but it's also in some pre-christian/islamic cultures that hold really archaic beliefs, this marriage system is basically ancient, however the western world has lost this concept of marriage. It shouldn't be called Pashtun marriage, i call it old culture marriage because so many ethnic groups have that haven't been modernized have this understanding of marriage, it's just Pashtuns have a 5000 year old history.

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

For marriage among Albanians, i have no idea, but i spoke with Bosnian muslims about how they marry yeah, bosnian muslims are pretty modern about their marriage, their marriage doesn't even make sense to people who follow the non-modern old cultures.

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

society is changing so fast. In Russia, their marriage system is beggning to change, not so long ago, Russians considered wearing a bikini infront of unmarried men as shameful, moreover they weren't fond over the concept of girl friend/boyfriend, as many Russian dating sights are focused on long-term relationships marriage or brides, not short term casual relationships that westerners have adopted, but i can see in the future that they'll adopt the new culture deeper.

I watched American dad about how the boys bought a russian bride, but she could only wear a one piece swimsuit until she got married. Russians follow Orthodox Christianity, same like Catholics, but their views differ regarding the status of the pope.

[Kushan Prince]

not just non-pashtun women, but women from the western or modernized cultures.

Arab-Berber, Central Asian Turk, Kurd, Persian, Punjabi, Indian/Bengali and Indonesia-Malay women are anyways fully aware how a PAshtun marriage works because this type of marriage is prevalent in a gargantuan geographic boundary, as such their understanind of marriage is the same as Pashtuns. Islam makes the vital customs more similar.


which is why the region roughly corresponds to the geographic Islamic world, but it's also in some pre-christian/islamic cultures that hold really archaic beliefs, this marriage system is basically ancient, however the western world has lost this concept of marriage. It shouldn't be called Pashtun marriage, i call it old culture marriage because so many ethnic groups have that haven't been modernized have this understanding of marriage, it's just Pashtuns have a 5000 year old history.

Ah, i see that makes a lot sense now. Thanks for the explanation.

[HalloIsBack]

A woman should realize that when marrying a Pashtun(Afghan), you are also marrying the family.

You're marrying not only the family.

If you marry a Afghan (not only Pashtun) you have to give up your culture and background. The woman have to cook Afghan food, to live in Afghan culture, to speak your language and educate children in Afghan way. Also maybe convert to Islam (why not?! hihi I thought you should only convert because of the love to religion and not because of the husband and/or his family).

I always hear: My cousin or uncle is married to Non-Afghan, she is meanwhile pretty well integrated and speaks good Dari/Pashto. Do you Afghan have got barometer how should someone be integrated?

If you want to have a mixed marriage you also should face her on one level, be interesting in her culture, background etc.

Other main problem that I see is reputation. Afghan are just living for their reputation and don't care about others. I have never met a Afghan (man or woman) who admit their mistakes or deed. They are always scared what will other think and say. A real man or woman admit his mistakes and deed.

Also his family should know where their place is and don't interfere.

Sorry but only woman with weak character is marrying an Afghan.

If someone don't like what I wrote I don't care about it.

[یاسمینه]

You're marrying not only the family.

If you marry a Afghan (not only Pashtun) you have to give up your culture and background. The woman have to cook Afghan food, to live in Afghan culture, to speak your language and educate children in Afghan way. Also maybe convert to Islam (why not?! hihi I thought you should only convert because of the love to religion and not because of the husband and/or his family).

I always hear: My cousin or uncle is married to Non-Afghan, she is meanwhile pretty well integrated and speaks good Dari/Pashto. Do you Afghan have got barometer how should someone be integrated?

If you want to have a mixed marriage you also should face her on one level, be interesting in her culture, background etc.

Other main problem that I see is reputation. Afghan are just living for their reputation and don't care about others. I have never met a Afghan (man or woman) who admit their mistakes or deed. They are always scared what will other think and say. A real man or woman admit his mistakes and deed.

Also his family should know where their place is and don't interfere.

Sorry but only woman with weak character is marrying an Afghan.

If someone don't like what I wrote I don't care about it.

I am not a Pashtana, I am a so called Westerner, but I can't agree with you Hallo. You write that you have never met an Afghan (man or woman) who admit their mistakes or deed and that only real man or woman admit his mistakes. I would say that you present a typical Western point of view without understanding the differences between cultures. Pashtuns live in the extended family based communities and maybe that's why the community is one of the most important points of reference. We in the West live more individual. Induviduum is the most important and we rarely care about what other says about our attitudes or choices. Modernity killed our family system and social ties.
This different approach makes that we raher should not compare and especially not to judge how others live, if we don't live among them, if we don't try to understand their values.
In the context of cross-cultural comparisons our Western standards and norms don't work, because they can be applied only to our culture. Like the real man from your post. I think that the concept of a real man in Western is different from the notion of a real man in Eastern culture.
These differencies make that some values aren't comparable.

[ChicaDee]

When I chose my partner, it was very important to me that he be very family oriented. I live a short distance from my parents and grandparents and most of my other relatives live within the same state. We get together a lot. I wanted a man who has strong family ties because family is important. Luckily, my husband's family is very close-knit and is accepting of me and my family. As the oldest child, it will be my honor to take care of my parents when they get older. We had that discussion too before marriage. I don't have to give up my culture or heritage or food preferences, only embrace a wider variety of those things. I want to learn how to cook Afghan food, my musical tastes have always varied, and learning languages won't be a problem either. My husband is not too keen on some American traditions (for example he doesn't like that we shake hands here!) but as I have adapted/adopted some of his culture, he is learning to embrace some of mine. You cannot erase your background or your past, it is part of you. But you can open your heart and mind to other ways of living, if those ways enrich and contribute to a good life for you and your family.

I find it very interesting that Hallo says "only woman with weak character is marrying an Afghan," yet thinks that someone who marries an Afghan must give up her culture, language, background, etc. For someone to marry outside their culture and experience, that is very brave. You face obstacles not only from the families but also from outsiders who feel it is their place to judge. You must be strong enough to know who you are, but flexible enough to compromise when cultures clash. I don't know what kind of Afghans Hallo has met, but there are jerks/a-holes in every culture or ethnic group that won't admit wrong or apologize for hurting someone. This has not been my experience with my husband or his family. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. I wanted a man with good, solid character, who knows who he is, who is educated, passionate and a hard worker because that is the same kind of woman I am. In my experience, most American "men" are the one with weak characters, unable to admit mistakes, only wanting to watch tv and scratch his privates, while the wife works, cooks, cleans and raises the kids around him. They are constant "skirt chasers" and ogle over women when the wife or girlfriend is right there! I see so many American men who are totally disrespectful and the way most of them view women is disgusting. I'm not saying all Afghan/Pashtun men are perfect, but I have seen that they are much more respectful of women and have better manners than American men. If it makes me weak to love a man who is kind, caring, respectful, loving, intelligent, funny, strong and brave, then I will be weak until my dying breath!

[HalloIsBack]

I am not a Pashtana, I am a so called Westerner, but I can't agree with you Hallo. You write that you have never met an Afghan (man or woman) who admit their mistakes or deed and that only real man or woman admit his mistakes. I would say that you present a typical Western point of view without understanding the differences between cultures. Pashtuns live in the extended family based communities and maybe that's why the community is one of the most important points of reference. We in the West live more individual. Induviduum is the most important and we rarely care about what other says about our attitudes or choices. Modernity killed our family system and social ties.
This different approach makes that we raher should not compare and especially judge how others live, if we don't live among them, don't try to understand their values.
In the context of cross-cultural comparisons our Western standards and norms don't work, because they can be adapted only to our culture. Like the real man from your post. I think that the concept of a real man in Western is different from the notion of a real man in Eastern culture.
These differencies make that some values aren't comparable.

I'm also not Pashtun. I don't present typical Western point of view. I lived in two different countries like most of ussers here. I can say we have the same the community and individual. Your family support you always and give you a lot but later you have to support them and give them a lot. If you want to have more rights in the community you have to pay a high price. For example in the country where I live is it normal that when your parents are too old they are going to rest home but in our family or in my background this is disrespectful towards your parents and strange.

In the mixed marriages woman has always to give up her culutr etc. and the man is always dominated. This is not only at Afghan. And I'm against this.

Every culture has got own values.

I don't have anything against mixed marriage I'm for such marriages as long as they married of love. When I see a mixed couple on the street my heart is smyling.

I don't care to which ethnic group my future husband belong as long he respect me and my whole background.

Everybody of us is a little Nazi.
Me too.

We both have different point of view cuz we are different age, background, education etc. although we both are from Eastern Bloc.

I have own pic of a real man and woman and this pic is not the same like in my culture or in Western world.

[یاسمینه]

In the mixed marriages woman has always to give up her culutr etc. and the man is always dominated. This is not only at Afghan.
Not always. I know many mixed marriages where traditions of both families are respected and celebrated. Everything depends on people. But I have to admit that I don't support the idea of mixed marriages, especially when it refers to the extremely different cultures. When young people are in love they hope that their feeling can overcome all difficulties. They rarely realize that they have different cultural background and don't think about how necessary and important is to know the culture of the potential spouse. Such a step requires incredible maturity, knowledge and understanding of both partners. In reality people don't care about such "minor details" and finally they end up trapped in unhappily marriages. And of course kids always suffer the most.

On the other hand you are right saying that it is a woman who usually subordinate to a man - mainly because of kids.

We both have different point of view cuz we are different age, background, education etc. although we both are from Eastern Bloc.

Agree, we all are different. But I think that the potential Orientalist should rather try to know and understand another culture rather than judge it, and most of all, should realize the cross-cultural differences. If one can't apply in real life what he is taugh, then, in my opinion, such education makes no sense and it is nothing more than a waste of time.

Besids, I personally do not like the fact that Westerners tend to judge everything with a sense of civilizational superiority, according to their super standards, which are very far from perfect (don't take it personally).

[HalloIsBack]

When I chose my partner, it was very important to me that he be very family oriented. I live a short distance from my parents and grandparents and most of my other relatives live within the same state. We get together a lot. I wanted a man who has strong family ties because family is important. Luckily, my husband's family is very close-knit and is accepting of me and my family. As the oldest child, it will be my honor to take care of my parents when they get older. We had that discussion too before marriage. I don't have to give up my culture or heritage or food preferences, only embrace a wider variety of those things. I want to learn how to cook Afghan food, my musical tastes have always varied, and learning languages won't be a problem either. My husband is not too keen on some American traditions (for example he doesn't like that we shake hands here!) but as I have adapted/adopted some of his culture, he is learning to embrace some of mine. You cannot erase your background or your past, it is part of you. But you can open your heart and mind to other ways of living, if those ways enrich and contribute to a good life for you and your family.

I find it very interesting that Hallo says "only woman with weak character is marrying an Afghan," yet thinks that someone who marries an Afghan must give up her culture, language, background, etc. For someone to marry outside their culture and experience, that is very brave. You face obstacles not only from the families but also from outsiders who feel it is their place to judge. You must be strong enough to know who you are, but flexible enough to compromise when cultures clash. I don't know what kind of Afghans Hallo has met, but there are jerks/a-holes in every culture or ethnic group that won't admit wrong or apologize for hurting someone. This has not been my experience with my husband or his family. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. I wanted a man with good, solid character, who knows who he is, who is educated, passionate and a hard worker because that is the same kind of woman I am. In my experience, most American "men" are the one with weak characters, unable to admit mistakes, only wanting to watch tv and scratch his privates, while the wife works, cooks, cleans and raises the kids around him. They are constant "skirt chasers" and ogle over women when the wife or girlfriend is right there! I see so many American men who are totally disrespectful and the way most of them view women is disgusting. I'm not saying all Afghan/Pashtun men are perfect, but I have seen that they are much more respectful of women and have better manners than American men. If it makes me weak to love a man who is kind, caring, respectful, loving, intelligent, funny, strong and brave, then I will be weak until my dying breath!

I wish you and your husband lots of luck.

I'm a result of a mixed marriage. I know how much power both need cuz there is lots of pressure from outside.

I have met lots of disrespectful men under my people as well as under Afghans. But I live in Europe maybe Afghan in Europe and different from USA.

If you have found an Afghan man like your husband you can give them to me and I'll marry him. But he has to learn my language and how to cook cuz I hate it to cook.

I repeat: I always hear: My cousin or uncle is married to Non-Afghan, she is meanwhile pretty well integrated and speaks good Dari/Pashto. Do you Afghan have got barometer how should someone be integrated?

[HalloIsBack]

Not always. I know many mixed marriages where traditions of both families are respected and celebrated. Everything depends on people. But I have to admit that I don't support the idea of mixed marriages, especially when it refers to the extremely different cultures. When young people are in love they hope that their feeling can overcome all difficulties. They rarely realize that they have different cultural background and don't think about how necessary and important is to know the culture of the potential spouse. Such a step requires incredible maturity, knowledge and understanding of both partners. In reality people don't care about such "minor details" and finally they end up trapped in unhappily marriages. And of course kids always suffer the most. I agree with it. I have also mixed marriages in my family. Only with respect on both sides are still working. In my opinion if you want to marry someone from other ethnic you should talk about that and forget the pink glasses. Also the parents on the both side should give her ok.

On the other hand you are right saying that it is a woman who usually subordinate to a man - mainly because of kids. This is exactly what I mean. And I personally don't want it. Because I think kids are in mixed marriage a special gift.


Agree, we all are different. But I think that the potential Orientalist should rather try to know and understand another culture rather than judge it, and most of all, should realize the cross-cultural differences. If one can't apply in real life what he is taugh, then, in my opinion, such education makes no sense and it is nothing more than a waste of time. I know the differences. But when I'll have a mixed marriage I have the right to judge (my personal opinion) because I have to spend the rest of my life with him.

Besids, I personally do not like the fact that Westerners tend to judge everything with a sense of civilizational superiority, according to their super standards, which are very far from perfect (don't take it personally). I don't take it personally I agree with you on this point.

[یاسمینه]

I repeat: I always hear: My cousin or uncle is married to Non-Afghan, she is meanwhile pretty well integrated and speaks good Dari/Pashto. Do you Afghan have got barometer how should someone be integrated?

Hallo, if a woman decides to marry a man who comes from the patriarchal family/society, then she should not be surprised that her husband's family and friends will expect her to adjust herself to the new family and its rules. In other words, if you put your hand in the fire, you can't be surprised that your hand gets burned.
In my own terminology it is called responsible decision-making

[HalloIsBack]

Hallo, if a woman decides to marry a man who comes from the patriarchal family/society, then she should not be surprised that her husband's family and friends will expect her to adjust herself to the new family and its rules. In other words, if you put your hand in the fire, you can't be surprised that your hand gets burned.
In my own terminology it is called responsible decision-making

thank you honey
this is what i mean
if i'll meet a man from such society i wont do such things if he or his family has problem with it he is dismissed but the man should also be strong enough to contradict his family

[ChicaDee]

I wish you and your husband lots of luck.


If you have found an Afghan man like your husband you can give them to me and I'll marry him. But he has to learn my language and how to cook cuz I hate it to cook.

I repeat: I always hear: My cousin or uncle is married to Non-Afghan, she is meanwhile pretty well integrated and speaks good Dari/Pashto. Do you Afghan have got barometer how should someone be integrated?

Thank you for the good wishes My husband does have some brothers and cousins, but I don't know if they cook. Lol.

I think what they mean by well integrated, they are saying she is not trying to change her husband or forget his background, but she is trying to adapt to the culture and learn. There are a few other non-Afghans married into my husband's family and I have heard that kind of comment. It was also said that 2 of them have been married almost 20 years but still the wives speak/understand no Pashto. It would drive me nuts to listen to 20 years of conversation that I couldn't understand, so I am slowly trying to learn. I think I got points from the family because they all said I look Afghan and truth be told, I felt so comfortable with them that it was like coming home.