Marrying a Divorced Man/Woman

[MohannaD]

Try before you buy.

People are not products , Marriege is a respectful action in Islam, trying is a "sin" , none of the prophets we know said you can try before you get married .

[emkhan]

People are not products , Marriege is a respectful and a "clean" action in Islam .

Problem with the secularists, materialists westerners is that they consider woman a commodity. They don't believe in relationships and virtues.
They like where they consider some benefit is coming.
They just try to satisfy their lost souls no matter what way they adopt.

[ScimitarXEdge]

the problem with secularists and westerners is they consider women a public commodity, they see her body as something to use and exploit for mass consumption. Her society brainwashes her to believe she is free and that exploitation and degradation means she's "liberated" and "Independent". She accepts indignity and desecration as a normal way of life, even though she's probably better off dead than to live life in such a pathetic way. She's been indoctrinated to view her counterpart in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Iran are squabbling in tyranny because they lack her delusional notions of "freedom" and thus she continues getting used under the illusion that she's in control and empowered as she discards her self respect when she "tries before she buys" and thus she accepts her fate as being a tool for exploitation.

the problem with countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen etc. etc. is that they see women as a private commodity; her life is at the disposal of her husband and family; her quality of life is determined only by how kind and merciful they will choose to be, which is rare. They have warped religion, family, morality and culture to brainwash her to believe she's living a righteous life. She is told to see her western/secularist counterpart is morally corrupted and undignified and thus she's lead to accept her fate as a perpetual slave.

But the truth is they're both wrong. Each one is oppressed and subjugated in their own way.

[Catya Sher]

^ That was insightful.

Still the better of the two is the Islamic one.

Divorce I believe is a horrible word and should be avoided.

Especially for Westerners who do not have family playing a major role
in selecting their spouse,
it's up to them to make the right choice the FIRST time.

This casual and hippy-like attitude about "I can just divorce in a few months"
has destroyed Western countries.
There is no family life any more.

It used to be that children had a healthy balance of father and mother both around.
When I grew up no one that my family knew was divorced.
It was a huge stigma and if some person who had been divorced
crossed the path of anyone, he or she was spoken about in hushed tones
of extreme disapproval.

In a few decades, the entire family system has collapsed due to this
unpleasant but almost universal attitude that divorce is usual and acceptable.
It isn't.

What about all these messed up children growing up under the influence of
single mothers ? The youth of today in America is often so mixed up.

The latest trend is to not even have the mother bring up her children.
There was a lot of publicity about a mother who abandoned her children
and took off because she wanted to "do something else instead".

Just wait if this catches on ! There will be no one to raise children.

In the old days at least there would be grandmothers who could take over
if the parents were incapacitated.
Or orphans might be sent to convents where nuns would bring them up
very nicely.

No longer, though.

I say: Skip the idea of divorce and wait til the only right person shows up.

As for what the Australian woman said about viriginity, this is terrible.
It IS a virtue before God.

It's only the Devil who wants to erase this idea from the minds of men and women both so they will follow his path instead from then on.

Stick to the old-fashioned ideas: there is ALWAYS a sound
spiritual reason behind them !

Today no one thinks "What would GOD think about this subject?"
They carelessly indulge in their own whims without a care
for their sentence after they die.

[Alchemist]

^ ^
Actually, my middle aged philosopher (****mitar), following your own reasoning the logical conclusion would be to say that women cannot be any other than a commodity, either private or public are the real questions of debate.

So just by looking at your interpretation it is safe to say that a women ought to be brainwashed, and her "freedom" either in the west or the east is nothing more than an illusion.

After all, it was you who said that a woman shouldn't be given the option to choose who she wants as a spouse, rather it is the duty of the patriarchs, the males in her family to do so. It was you who said with pride that your own mother's brothers and father told her to marry your father. And this to you is the ideal way to go about pairing mates.


So it seems that you are not criticizing either the western "Secularists" or the eastern "Orthodox traditions" but paint an image of women, victimized and hapless owning to their own biological fates. A bit nihilistic for my taste.... but your views are as always confusing and shallow.

[emkhan]

^ ^
Actually, my middle aged philosopher (****mitar), following your own reasoning the logical conclusion would be to say that women cannot be any other than a commodity, either private or public are the real questions of debate.

So just by looking at your interpretation it is safe to say that a women ought to be brainwashed, and her "freedom" either in the west or the east is nothing more than an illusion.

After all, it was you who said that a woman shouldn't be given the option to choose who she wants as a spouse, rather it is the duty of the patriarchs, the males in her family to do so. It was you who said with pride that your own mother's brothers and father told her to marry your father. And this to you is the ideal way to go about pairing mates.


So it seems that you are not criticizing either the western "Secularists" or the eastern "Orthodox traditions" but paint an image of women, victimized and hapless owning to their own biological fates. A bit nihilistic for my taste.... but your views are as always confusing and shallow.

He always tries to bring new things which has nothing to do with Islam nor with our traditions. daa yawa nawe fitna da.... Allah de khair kri.

[emkhan]

^ That was insightful.

Still the better of the two is the Islamic one.

Divorce I believe is a horrible word and should be avoided.

Especially for Westerners who do not have family playing a major role
in selecting their spouse,
it's up to them to make the right choice the FIRST time.

This casual and hippy-like attitude about "I can just divorce in a few months"
has destroyed Western countries.
There is no family life any more.

It used to be that children had a healthy balance of father and mother both around.
When I grew up no one that my family knew was divorced.
It was a huge stigma and if some person who had been divorced
crossed the path of anyone, he or she was spoken about in hushed tones
of extreme disapproval.

In a few decades, the entire family system has collapsed due to this
unpleasant but almost universal attitude that divorce is usual and acceptable.
It isn't.

What about all these messed up children growing up under the influence of
single mothers ? The youth of today in America is often so mixed up.

The latest trend is to not even have the mother bring up her children.
There was a lot of publicity about a mother who abandoned her children
and took off because she wanted to "do something else instead".

Just wait if this catches on ! There will be no one to raise children.

In the old days at least there would be grandmothers who could take over
if the parents were incapacitated.
Or orphans might be sent to convents where nuns would bring them up
very nicely.

No longer, though.

I say: Skip the idea of divorce and wait til the only right person shows up.

As for what the Australian woman said about viriginity, this is terrible.
It IS a virtue before God.

It's only the Devil who wants to erase this idea from the minds of men and women both so they will follow his path instead from then on.

Stick to the old-fashioned ideas: there is ALWAYS a sound
spiritual reason behind them !

Today no one thinks "What would GOD think about this subject?"
They carelessly indulge in their own whims without a care
for their sentence after they die.

You are right. This devil have hit even the Muslim families.
The men here live a life of like slaves in the western societies just because of the laws and unnecessary rights given to women and then giving priority and benefit to the women in a divorce case.
That is why I say marrying here in the west is a big stupidity or the man should have a big heart of patience and compromise.

[Catya Sher]

Grateful for that analysis, Alchemist.

In fact there are so many very sharp women throughout the Islamic
world who are not these helpless victims.

Of course there are SOME.

But most Eastern women are clever and diplomatic enough to
make their influence known and implemented
without needing to scream raucously --
like Western "feminists" do so rudely,
imitating the worst of men in a bullying way.

Eastern women know how to remain feminine
whereas evn maintream American women of
all ages have virtually turned
into low=class men, with their cropped haircuts
and wearing men's clothes, such as pants.

[Catya Sher]

Emkhan, you're right.

I think it's almost a ticket to failure for a well-raised Muslim to marry a Westerner
unless that person is COMPLETELY an independent thinker.

Of those, there are so few that the chances of meeting one is slim.

But that's sad that the Devil has gotten into the Islamic families too :
i see them as the last holdout on earth against Shaitan

It's because, I guess, they aren't practicing their religion, and/ or
don't have deep faith.

That's what HAS to be worked on to improve FAST !
Before the Devil's invasion gets worse.

[Alchemist]

It is all about the 'heart'...

I see Afghan immigrants as the worst when it comes to having relationships. But these white people...say what you want of their manner of dress and their life style, but at the very least, the majority have the ability to be in a relationship and even the desire to be in one, when it is not even made compulsory on them. More of the so called 'secularists' are willing to be in a monogomous relationship, or even an open relationship of some sort with honesty at the core ...but just 20 minutes ago on Afghan satellite television, an afghan woman was telling the host of a television program how she was married to a man 40 years her elder at the tender age of 15! And she wasn't even the first, or the second, or the third, but the fourth wife. And he had come for her hand from Germany..and he had children from his previous wives...and he had wives even after. At the age of 70 he married another girl of 14. So really, it is ignorance that drives people to follow their own whims and do as they please. It isn't so much the age difference, but the deceit and lies he told to get what he wanted. At least with these westerners...they know what they are getting into, both sides.

If you want to go to the ideal model of Islam, divorce is not a stigma. A woman has the right to divorce her husband if he doesn't fulfil her needs. Khadija he wife of the holy prophet peace be upon him, was widowed twice, and his other subsequent wives were divorcees and widows as well. And it was common for the heirs of deen to divorce their women if they were not pleased with them. Recognizing this aspect of marriage will be what will empower women. By making divorce a stigma, women become powerless and religion fatalistic. Marriage is a social contract, and like any other contract it should be respected and treated seriously. But the simple minded people of our communities, especially muslims now, treat it as a formality and feel more bound by social perceptions. People spend more time assessing the house and the car that they would buy, then the spouse that they would choose to live with. If the same level of scrutiny and analysis was given by the parties involved, there would hardly be any divorces....but most treat marriage as a given...that merely binding a man and a woman, their fates will be intertwined miraculously. At least the secularists understand that marriage is a commitment that asks for a great deal of them... but not the simple folks who think that a sufi's blessing is all that is needed.

[Catya Sher]

Interesting to read that comparison

I do think it's wise to be honest and examine flaws where they do exist.
It helps root them out and make readers look more deeply at their own selves, perhaps.

Unfortunately, though, the MSA : Materialistic Spouse Assessment -!
is pervasive in both East and West.

For contrast, as one anecdote, I had a friend from Czech Republic, at that time
Czechoslovakia, who worked in a lowly job in America as an immigrant, though
he was much more skilled.

He complained ruefully that the minute he met a nice - seeming American woman,
she would demand "What's your job?"
When he said a porter, at an upscale hotel in San Francisco,
she would turn up their nose and be gone.

Whereas, in Eastern Europe, despite being behind the Iron Curtain of
Soviet rule, young people sat around in cafes and TALKED-- COMMUNICATED ! --
with each other [unlike here in America] about
intellectual subjects, argued history, discussed philosophy of life,
in hours of meaningful discussions.

No one asked what work anyone did, or particularly cared.

What mattered was what the person had to offer intellectually,
perhaps not spiritually, as atheism was supposedly the official
religion. But all safe, deeper subjects were
debated with enthusiasm and caring.

Here in America, he found, if he could meet any girls, they had NOTHING to talk about.
Simple and unlearne ---- notably, whether educated or not --- they had no spark of
interest or fire.

They wanted to see what kind of car he drove, that was about it....

So these problems ARE fairly universal and should be addressed.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^ ^
Actually, my middle aged philosopher (****mitar), following your own reasoning the logical conclusion would be to say that women cannot be any other than a commodity, either private or public are the real questions of debate.

So just by looking at your interpretation it is safe to say that a women ought to be brainwashed, and her "freedom" either in the west or the east is nothing more than an illusion.

After all, it was you who said that a woman shouldn't be given the option to choose who she wants as a spouse, rather it is the duty of the patriarchs, the males in her family to do so. It was you who said with pride that your own mother's brothers and father told her to marry your father. And this to you is the ideal way to go about pairing mates.


So it seems that you are not criticizing either the western "Secularists" or the eastern "Orthodox traditions" but paint an image of women, victimized and hapless owning to their own biological fates. A bit nihilistic for my taste.... but your views are as always confusing and shallow.

never argued any such thing; but like a typical liar and intellectually dshonest cretin, you'll always fabricate nonsense ...or perhaps it's the voices in your head at work again

[ScimitarXEdge]

Grateful for that analysis, Alchemist.

In fact there are so many very sharp women throughout the Islamic
world who are not these helpless victims.

Of course there are SOME.

But most Eastern women are clever and diplomatic enough to
make their influence known and implemented
without needing to scream raucously --
like Western "feminists" do so rudely,
imitating the worst of men in a bullying way.

Eastern women know how to remain feminine
whereas evn maintream American women of
all ages have virtually turned
into low=class men, with their cropped haircuts
and wearing men's clothes, such as pants.

The problem is we confuse cultures of Muslims, with Islam, they're not the same

the Taliban's version of things is not what Islam teaches what so ever.

[emkhan]

i can tell from your words that you have the typical pathology of a rapist.

You are wrong... I have seen men here been kicked out by their wives...
The house taken by the wife and the innocent husband goes to road.
Children taken by mum and papa can't even meet his children.
You can't scold your daughter, son, wife, sister... he or she calls the police and you get jailed lol. he or she can do whatever he or she wants, you cant do anything otherwise the police is at your door steps. Thats why I say if a man wants to marry here in the west he must be stupid or he must have a big heart for patience and compromise.
Can you deny these facts or you will again go to your bad mouthing ?

[ScimitarXEdge]

You are wrong... I have seen men here been kicked out by their wives...
The house taken by the wife and the innocent husband goes to road.
Children taken by mum and papa can't even meet his children.
You can't scold your daughter, son, wife, sister... he or she calls the police and you get jailed lol. he or she can do whatever he or she wants, you cant do anything otherwise the police is at your door steps. Thats why I say if a man wants to marry here in the west he must be stupid or he must have a big heart for patience and compromise.
Can you deny these facts or you will again go to your bad mouthing ?

While you're right, that often times men in the west do get the short end of the stick; and that is definitely not acceptable. It is however less severe on the scale of injustices.

in Pakistan, a man can slam his wife's face to a hot stove .....and that's deemed acceptable...he faces little or no consequence. I'd say that's much more severe than a bruised male ego. In Pakistan men will not go to jail even for the most heinous actions, same in Afghanistan and Yemen.

No bad mouthing, you're clearly a misogynistic nutjob .....apparently the lives of innocent women mean little to you, but the hurt ego of weak minded men like yourself needs protection?