Our identity on the slide

[Master Khan]

And when you will settle permenantly in swabi, you would become a paki lol

become a Paki???
I am already yam a god dam Paki, I was born in Pakiland.

[Shehbaz Khan]

He means the Luffy,Shehbaz,Nokia,Zaid Hamid kinda paki

Thanks for remembering me Adam But I don't like that Zaid Hamid thing

[badmash_khel]

There is absolutely no doubt that raising your kids in pakhtun land is the best thing to do if you want your kids to remain pashtun. In the west people often get confused between their western identity, islamic identity and their cultural identity (pakhtunwali) and often choose to be just focus on one. They either become westerners (lose islam and pakhtunwali) or become extremist muslims if they can't fit into western lifestyle.

[Khyber Pass]

I am known in the school through the "brown" people as Khan Saab or Pathan Saab I am not assimilated and am a proud Afghan. Although I see many Afghans havinga very bad rep through the school TBH.

[Master Khan]

He means the Luffy,Shehbaz,Nokia,Zaid Hamid kinda paki

Zaid Hamid is a dumb paki who chats nothing but Sh**

[Prince_Pukhtun]

Are you through and through Afghan or are you for, instance Afghan-American, or British Afghan etc? Have you assimilated or integrated? Do you think it will impinge on your or your childrens identity?

born in pakistan and lived in swat while i lived there, lived amongst pakistanis nearly all my life, iv become very nationalistic for various reasons last few years and classify myself as an afghan living in pakistan, just like i now classify every pashtun in pakistan as an afghan residing in pakistan.grown up here in ireland and i speak pashto pretty fluently whereas so many have forgotten it, have mantained my own culture and all the western culture doesnt phase me at all so i dont think that it would on my kids either ( when or if i have any).

How do you deal with the fact that you or your progeny will become a step away from our parents' culture?
im more pashtun than my parents and all my family, so i dont have to worry about being far away from them all :P. last time i was in pakistan i made sure to inspire pashtunwali in all my cousins and i continue to do so with the videos i make about pukhtuns! nothing makes me angrier than people forgetting their own heritage or what they are

Does it worry you? Should it worry us?

worries me because iv heard my own cousins mock afghanan and it gets me so riled up.i dont know, there is a general hatred toward their own kind in essence and i cannot handle that. my cousins are no longer like that after explaining everything to them calmly. sure now they even walk around wearing pakol all the time and speaking pashto only lol. but im not a spokespersn for everybody else
i try my utmost best to make sure every pukhtun here maintains their identity but i dont want to interfere in any1s life

[Afghanistan?]

Here is a thought that preoccupies me, amongst others.
What will be the identity of my progeny if they choose to live in the west? Many PF members live, study, work, make homes in the west (like the toronto crew, the london boys, the aussie 'ghans', etc).
We are sticking to our culture and hewad by speaking pashto, maintaining cultural, political and social dialogues, by ties such as weddings we attend of pashtun family and friends, but will our next generation hold fast as we do? Our parents, and grandparents lived in watan, for them there wasn't this issue, their issues were fundamental: job, health, education, marraiges, family disputes, (security, war) not like identity, integration etc

So my questions to the forum:

Are you through and through Afghan or are you for, instance Afghan-American, or British Afghan etc? Have you assimilated or integrated? Do you think it will impinge on your or your childrens identity?

How do you deal with the fact that you or your progeny will become a step away from our parents' culture?

Does it worry you? Should it worry us?


I am concerned, maybe bcz I am older or maybe I am a nationalistic, or pashtunegocentric, or the kaliwal is in my blood.

what did our culture ever do for us that we force it on our kids as well?

[Ahmad Walid]

what did our culture ever do for us that we force it on our kids as well?

First, Welcome to PashtunForums

Second, What an awesome answer to the topic!

Only thing I can think of when someone says Pashtun culture is "Family". One of the TOP reasons why I don't want to live in the USA or any western country is because they don't live as families, they find friends more important then Family. I believe in the family centered culture. I get the feeling that the word "independent" means to go crazy and do stupid **** in America.

This is the only thing I have received and I will keep from my pashtun culture, and for this you don't need to be Pashtun.

I strongly disapprove of PRIDE. This characteristic has caused so much wars,so many lives lost,so many problems. This has caused immense problems in Pashtun culture as well because Pashtuns cherish it like its the ring from LOTR (couldn't think of anything better to describe it).

So, my answer to the topic I will teach my kids only Islam, they will pick up on the cultural stuff obviously from family and friends but I won't force culture on them. Like he said in the last post "Pashtun culture hasn't done much for us."

[torkham]

what has your culture done for you?

think of it as a reflection in the mirror.
your culture has given you(and your people) a language, it gives you customs and set of rules to follow inorder to live a civilised life. your culture also gives deeper substance to mere existence, such as literature, music, dance, that makes your soul happy, gives you a purpose in life and perhaps gets you closer to fundamental questions such as meaning of life. of course if one chooses to consider the heinous acts of humans (honour killings, mutilating a girl's nose etc) as culture then that would be a gross misinterpretation.

[R3SISTANC3]

what did our culture ever do for us that we force it on our kids as well?

Our culture thought us to be noble men/women. Thought us to be men and women of integrity, honesty, hospitality. Our culture teaches us that value freedom, independence, and never to tolerate tyranny. Our culture teaches us to help the weak, the poor, the orphan, and the widow. To give and stand for justice. What did our culture do for us? It made us civilized (contrary to what they feed you), because only the civilized honors the roles of man, woman, elder, younger, guest, stranger, and most of all, living beings.

To put in perspective, with all the wars, drugs, turmoil, we are not slum dogs, or ghetto super stars. Our sons are not calling their sisters bitches and hoes, and our daughters bouncing their fat behinds making it rain in strip clubs. Because my friend, that too is culture, 21st Century culture.

Watch this video

‫د غريبو لاس نيوى Ù¥‬‎ - YouTube

Even though this Pashtun family is in such a dire situation, look at what the mother teaches them. Look at what those little kids have learned and teach. That is culture, even in destitute, they don't forget their humanity.

Now what have you done for your culture instead of expecting?

[Alchemist]

Excellent posts everyone!

It confirms for me that there is much hope for Afghanistan yet.

Also, to add, the reason why some minorities, like the chinese or jews, are able to preserve their culture outside of their homeland is because of their strong sense of unity.
Unity is the key to cultural preservation.
If even in toronto, london, san francisco, new york or sydney the afghan diaspora had strong community centres and institutions the values of our culture could still be preserved. In some western governments, like Canada, such organization can even receive findings. I have heard that the Afghan associations here in toronto were corrupt, mismanaged and ineffective...but regardless of the rumours, I haven't seen anything positive from them. The Masajid are trying to fill in that gap now. But each masjid can do only so much, and their function is towards the spiritual. I think as the pool of Afghan professionals increases in the Afghan diaspora, and resources increases there is potential for building a global network consisting of strong centres Afghan institutions linked towards the same cause. There are millions of Afghans living outside Afghanistan. Culture doesn't exist in the individual. It is derived from the sense of community.
This problem is not unique only to Afghans. And we can learn from others. I know the jewish community in toronto is so tightly knit, economically and socially that if you drive down Bathurst street, you will think you are in israel. And you know there is a china town in every major city in the world. I am starting to think I should learn chinese even though I am in toronto because I am surrounded by chinese now. Granted they have larger numbers, but in toronto there is at least a hundred thousand afghan families. And if you count the near by cities, hamilton, guelph, kitchener-waterloo, ajax etc...there is enough Afghans here to make a small kabul city. But we are too dispersed, even my own relatives are dispersed. Hopefully in the future, when we have enough resources, influence and social standing, where ever we are, we can build Afghanistan from where we are. In a sense it is a function of economics.
And as some one mentioned, cultural does evolve. Even the culture in Afghanistan will change and evolve. And that is already happening...indian, turkish, pakistani and english translated soap operas on Afghan State run televisions have some sort of impact, for better or for worse.
In the grander scheme of things, we are all children of Adam, but our ideas of Afghaniyat are not at all unique to us, it is the way of life of Prophet Ibrahim, pbuh. What makes us unique is our history, the experiences we all share as a people...and that is in our dna, our 'collective unconscious'. Which will be passed anyway.

[khushal]

what did our culture ever do for us that we force it on our kids as well?

So what culture are you going to force on your kids then.

[khushal]

Torkham sooner or later, and it seems more sooner than later cultures will become irrelevant..tis the sad truth

So how do you define culture then?

[khushal]

Most Pashtuns I see that have grown up in the west cant even point to Afghanistan or pakistan on the map. most are more concerned with what other kids in the west are concerned with. to try to fit in with the people around them. peer pressure has overwhelmed them to a pont that they have turned the name mohammad to mo, or is it bad parenting or a combination of both.

Most afghans that go back to the kali for a visit are more in tune with the culture than the ones that go to big cities like peshawar or kabul.

The capitalistic culture is very intoxicating and can make the mind incoherent and can lose the youth and before they know it they have become lonely cultureless souls with nothing to look forward to that wonder aimlessly and wonders where they went wrong.

[Ahmad Walid]

Our culture thought us to be noble men/women. Thought us to be men and women of integrity, honesty, hospitality. Our culture teaches us that value freedom, independence, and never to tolerate tyranny. Our culture teaches us to help the weak, the poor, the orphan, and the widow. To give and stand for justice. What did our culture do for us? It made us civilized (contrary to what they feed you), because only the civilized honors the roles of man, woman, elder, younger, guest, stranger, and most of all, living beings.

To put in perspective, with all the wars, drugs, turmoil, we are not slum dogs, or ghetto super stars. Our sons are not calling their sisters bitches and hoes, and our daughters bouncing their fat behinds making it rain in strip clubs. Because my friend, that too is culture, 21st Century culture.

Watch this video

‫د غريبو لاس نيوى Ù¥‬‎ - YouTube

Even though this Pashtun family is in such a dire situation, look at what the mother teaches them. Look at what those little kids have learned and teach. That is culture, even in destitute, they don't forget their humanity.

Now what have you done for your culture instead of expecting?

Many other cultures teach the same thing. I wish we had the determination to seek knowledge as the Chinese do, I wish our culture could look beyond engineer,doctor, lawyer. What I am getting at is that our culture is not perfect, in fact, I find many things that are wrong with it that I don't bother to think about it too much because it is not important.

Torkham brother mentioned that culture gives literature, poetry, music, etc.. This is all nice but there are 1000s of other cultures that do the same. There have been great writers all over the world. Why should I stick to one? Why not appreciate them all. Should we appreciate the work or where it came from? Should we appreciate that the person was born in our region and that should give us happiness?

I get tired of people taking pride in that some great writer, poet, storyteller, musician is from their land.

Biggest reason why I dislike our culture: Pashtuns take pride in their culture to extreme levels. Pashtuns cannot live with hazaras, tajiks, uzbekis, etc... Pashtuns have to have complete control in everything. People actually go fight for this. Sometimes I wonder if taliban are fighting for "pashtuns" or do they even know what Islam means?

Moreover, culture is sort of a tool that can be used in dangerous ways. For example, in my university I ask ROTC students, Why they want to go fight for their country and kill innocent people, have they learned nothing from Iraq and Afghanistan? Their answer is always the same thing, " I am protecting our freedoms." They are simply fighting for the money, honor, and pride that comes with the position. One of the best recruiting methods in any country any culture is what: music, speeches about great people in the past, freedoms, nice stuff.

I am content with Islam and I don't need anything else. I don't want to stick with something that forces me to get away from Islam and that is the final and best point.

There are countless examples of cultures (Pashtun also) disobeying Islam. We listen to music, watch movies, look at the crap that Pakistan puts in their dramas, the indian dramas that pashtun women watch. And one of the biggest problems plaguing my younger generation: Why the hell does it cost so much money to have wedding!!!!!!!!

If it was up to me I would do the nikkah and the hell with the attan, hotel, engagement, 3 days of parties, car with flowers, all of this nonsense.. This is why I keep getting far away from culture and closer to Islam. I don't understand how people live with themselves; how can you have a wedding for thousands of dollars in a hotel while their are people begging for food to stay alive across the street!!!!

I don't meant to offend anyone because I know I am not perfect, I am just putting my thoughts out there.

BTW: I won't ever do anything for pashtun culture but I will do everything for the poor people of Afghanistan. Not because of the culture but because that is where I was born and that is my home. Those are the people that I should take care of first.