Marriage to non-Pashtuns

[qunduz92]

do u have reading comprehension issues or are u just intentionally being malicious by miscontrueing my argument?

before getting u hooked on phonics, i'll once again reiterate that it is not encouraged but at the same time permitted.

read the example i offered you in my other post regarding the praying of tarawih in the masjid versus the home. although muslim males are not encouraged to pray them in the homes instead of the masjid, praying in the masjid is not obligatory either.

on the same token, marrying outside of ones culture and ethnicity is not an encouraged practice in islam but it is not absolutely mandatory to abide by it either.

[unknownprince]

to put it in an even briefer way, it is not un-Islamic to marry within, as some may be trying to suggest, nor is it un-Islamic to marry out. However, people have a natural tendency to hold on to their heritage and culture, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Catya Sher]

I think Sangeen's friend's story is fascinating.
The 2 parts that got me were when she would not even accept a ride from him
in Saddar ! Not just that she was adhering to The System, but one detects an element of snobbery or disdain for her husband in her reaction.

I could be misinterpreting too, since I wasn't there
From the sound of it, she surely did NOT love him at all.
She loved his GOLD, apparently !

Second problem was the rejection of his wise offer to buy a house
which is always - except in the U.S. - a good lifetime investment.
It provides practical shelter.

One can't eat the gold anyway if hungry.
Remember King Midas of Phrygia [modern day Anatolia in Turkey - I went one time to
the ruins of his capital, thus the point of the immortal lesson became real].

All in all the friend of Sangeen sounds well intentioned but exasperated by all the nonsense. One is impressed with his honesty. He refuses to sneak a peek, which most young men would have eagerly gone along with the sister to spy on the unwitting proposed fiancee.

Please tell more stories, Sangeen.
You are quite shrewd in your understanding of life it seems

[Sangeen]

Sangeen
Even though your friend is happily married to a white girl he is still a jackass, for not having patience. What was he in a rush for? To have sex? He should visit a brothel then. The girls family is weird too, I have never heard of a case like that ever. Once your done with a Nikah, your married, no and, if"s, or buts, about it.

Only thing that i see coming out of a brothel is You with the way you are talking.

[unknownprince]

Sangeen, just know that there are good things in Pashtunwali, and that you should realize this.

It keeps you disciplined and principled.

Nothing is absolutely perfect, and nothing can override Islamic principles.

[graveyardofempires]

just cuz it doesnt serve your purpose doesnt mean somethin is wrong with it.
just like when someone is "ex muslim" than all up sudden something is wrong with Islam and not with them.

If you wan to marry anyone you want,you can but dont come here tell us its somehow the norm.Maybe you are that punjabi guy who was earlier here trying to hook up with pukhtaney on this forum.
Why do you use Islam to justify something which has to do with Nafs?

[Sangeen]

is it that you guy can not read or you do not have the ability of understanding anything.

When did i say everything about Pashtunwali is bad? Real pashtuns were great they were true lovers of Islam but where are they now?

What we are seeing around us will you call it Pashtunwali?

Your leaders GHAFAR, WALI and ASFANDYAR are they living their lives according to Pashtun traditions?

We are sleep walking really in fact we are sleep walking with our heads firmly buried up our asses. Look your leaders...

When Muslims were fighting with hindus GHAFAR sold you to hindus and donned a lung imitating Gandhi. Starting that Hindu-Khidmatgar party.

When pashtuns were fighting with Soviets the Bustard WALI became a commi and wore a red cap. He didnt care about the hundreds of Pashtuns that were being crushed under soviet tanks everyday and hundreds of women were being raped in the name of modernisation.

and now when we are fighting against the NATO and US the bustard from a bustard ASFANDYAR went straight in the lap of NATO.

here are the three generations that has sold you yet Pashtuns will still go and kiss their asses.

Look at the Bilour and his clan. What do they make their money from?

By showing PORN MOVIES to the same nation that he claims to serve. But that's not all, the real fun part is that cinemas where they show these PORN MOVIES -Shama, Palwasha etc- are named after their daughters. i mean just imagine that... Would the worst of worst run a brothel in his daughters name? Have we become worst then worst?

This is the type of Pashtuns that i despise and this is the so called Pashtunwali that I hate.

I am ALHUMDOLILLAH proud of those great Pashtuns that never sit on the dinner table alone. Who had never concerned themselves with the might or size of their enemy.

They never became carpet for enemies like GHAFAR WALI and ASFANYAR.

These are the pashtuns that i have the problem with. Not with the likes of Ahmad Shah, Amir Caror, Sher Shah Baba and Epi Fakir etc,.

Really have a look at your so called pashtunwali it is totally eclipsed with indian culture and this is what i hate.

[کیش]

Only thing that i see coming out of a brothel is You with the way you are talking.

Yea, me and "your friend" love going to brothels. I feel sorry for him, he just wanted to have sex, that is why he did not have patience with a Pashtun, and went for a white girl.

[Catya Sher]

No Idiot, the guy clearly TRIED, even against his own better judgment.
He let his mother choose a list of possible wives.
He shrugged and went along with all the customary rituals up to the point he
abandoned the idea.

He gave it the best shot.
It was the families who were callous and uncaring.

Who wants to marry someone who cared Zero about her future spouse?

I say he WAS quite patient. But saw the writing on the wall and knew when
to cut his losses and get out of a lose-lose situation.
No one would have benefited from such a bad alliance.
Misery would have been the result, for everyone, except the parents perhaps.

The bottom line is a bevy of relatives are not going to marry the intended person and have to suffer any problems; they are quick to push but slow to really take stock of whether a couple is at all suited for each other.

The guy is the one who has to spend a life with the choice; so, it's his prerogative
to find a better person for him wherever that person may be.

[کیش]

I have never heard of that way of "customs" before in my life. I know several people who married spouses from Peshawer, and after the Nikah, they were husband, and wife.

Maybe, that guy wasn't financial fit to support her.

[Catya Sher]

Fabulous post about that infamous dynasty, Sangeen !

I remember during the anti-Soviet Jihad how abominably Wali Khan behaved.
Just like you say.

Yet he was the object of the most sycophantic hero-worship in some quarters
of the region.

A very dark soul clearly. People who still support that family need the
eyes of their souls examined !

Even then they wouldn't give up their adulation for this family.

I hated that Gandhi looked sported by Ghaffar Khan - REPULSIVE !

Question is: why were so many Pashtuns blindly taken in and
indulging in hero-worship of at VERY best, mediocrities, and at worst
outright traitors such as the notorious Wali Khan?
I used to shudder when I heard his name. ick!

[Catya Sher]

I wasn't clear either about why the long gap - maybe Sangeen knows or could
ask his friend to explain this detail if he is still around.

[Roshina]

Sangeen
Even though your friend is happily married to a white girl he is still a jackass, for not having patience. What was he in a rush for? To have sex? He should visit a brothel then. The girls family is weird too, I have never heard of a case like that ever. Once your done with a Nikah, your married, no and, if"s, or buts, about it.

What a perfect, PERFECT name you've chosen for yourself, Idiot, to show the public what you really are! Reading the posts of many other idiots on here, I wish they'd chosen similarly apt names.

Why are you folks so quick to judge? On the one hand, you talk about how Islam and Pashtunwali are one and the same (remember how many of you always say "Pashtunwali = Islam"?), but on the other hand, you talk about how the two are two different things and you have to live by both if you're a Pashtun. Goodness gracious.

Do you know that Islamically, ALL you need for a marriage to be valid, for you to become the (life) partner of another individual is the nikaah? And the rest is all tradition/culture and not required in Islam but looks really good in culture and is merely a way for the community, families, friends, etc. to gather and celebrate the unity of two souls?

Sangeen's friend, for those who actually read the story, was obviously unsupportive of the idea of having to wait forever to be with his WIFE even after the nikaah had been done. He wanted to have a wife who would share his values and understanding of culture/religion and not be a slave of the same mentality that his family and many others around him were. He wanted, for example, a wife who wouldn't do things just because of rasam/riwaj -- but perhaps someone who cared more about what Islam demanded and regulated. And, again, in Islam, once your nikaah is done, you are legally and spiritually bound to that person, and you are Islamically husband and wife and are free to be intimate with each other like normal husband and wife. What many cultures do, however, is to do the nikaah right with the engagement ceremony, but NOT allow the couple to ever see each other until the rukhsati moment, which is what we call the wedding ceremony. And the reason most Muslim families do this is to prohibit the two parties from dreaming of being with anyone else, even though they are forbidden from seeing their own husband/wife. (Like in everything else, there are exceptions. Not all Muslim / Pashtun families do marriages this way. Some do the nikaah at the time of the wedding, long after the engagement.) Sangeen friend's problem with it was probably this: Why do the nikaah that early in the first place, if they won't socially be husband/wife right away? Like he said, he being her husband Islamically wasn't socially allowed to give her a ride (just because the wedding ceremony wasn't going to take place until a year later, despite the fact that their nikaah had been done!), but a non-mahram dude was going to give her a ride instead? What's up with that?! What kind of a respectable husband/man would tolerate that?

Next time, for God's sake, read before you make judgments and get into people's heads and hearts and tell everyone else about what THEY did something for. Actually, you know what? That you'd assume someone else would do Act X (get married to someone other than whom his parents had chosen for him) just to get Result Y (e.g., physical pleasure) only tells us that you yourself are very likely to do the same thing and are yourself that greedy and lustful. Yuck.

And, um, why are you folks so angry that he chose a non-Pashtun woman as his wife instead of a Pashtun woman? Ever heard of compatibility and different expectations and desires and beliefs? Yeah, well, now would be a great time to remind yourselves of that.

[unknownprince]

yes, in these secular individuals eyes, it is always the girls fault.

[کیش]

Roshina
At least am not a hypocrite, who acts all mighty.

He's friend if it's true, should have not asked his momma, to look for a wife to him. He should have known how "complicated" it is. He's friend is the ultimate "Dawus" for getting engaged, doing a Nikah, and then dumping her like garbage.

I don't care is his friend married anyone, I have made it clear that I would marry an Indian girl over a Pashtun one.

It must be you on the avatar smoking opium (not that it's anything wrong with it)