Marriage to non-Pashtuns

[Roshina]

By the way, sis Muslimah, I think that it’d be of much benefit to you if you found some non-Pashtun women who are married to Pashtuns (or who are engaged or committed to Pashtun men). They will give you a lot of hints for how to go about making this marriage of yours happen, and you'll have a support group as well.

I'm sure there are some online networks for that, and if I find some, I'll share them with you. But I'd urge you to find as many Pashtuns as you can in person. I know tonnnnnnnnnnnns of Pashtuns in Toronto, and I'd be happy to mention them to you. Perhaps they can meet your friend and help him figure out how to reason with his parents, in as good and as Pashtun a manner as possible.

[Musafira]

His parents already proposed to that 16 year old girl whose family accepted? How can they get out of that gracefully?

[Roshina]

Honestly, its totally the parents fault. How can you sign away your kids life and not even ask him one single question. Thats not islamic at all.

Depends on what you call Islamic, khorey. You see, we think of Aisha, the Prophet's youngest and most beloved wife, and go, "SHE wasn't consulted during her marriage, and her parents and the Prophet arranged the marriage together. So it's Sunnah, even commendable, to do the same thing. The Prophet is, after all, our role model." So you can't really blame them when they marry younger women to older men, or to make the decision FOR women (or men, in some cases).

So, yeah, it might be a better idea to understand their Islamic argument before deciding how un-Islamic it is, sis

[Muslimah]

lol you missed the point
Not having a say in your marriage - that part is not islamic. I did my research thank you very much. I may be a new muslim, but i am not a moron.

If you are going to be insulting and rude and degrading towards people, change your tone to a less overbearing one. It would definitely help.

[Roshina]

lol you missed the point
Not having a say in your marriage - that part is not islamic. I did my research thank you very much. I may be a new muslim, but i am not a moron.

I'm not calling you a moron by any means.

Aisha didn't have a say in her marriage, as we all know, so I'm trying to say that some Muslims try to follow the Prophet's this example (without understanding the essence behind his marriage at all), so it's not really "un-Islamic."

If you are going to be insulting and rude and degrading towards people, change your tone to a less overbearing one. It would definitely help.

I'm very sorry that you think I'm trying to be rude or insulting or degrading. I think you're making too many judgments too quickly without trying to understand the guy's family (or our culture) at all. Look at it from our perspective, and try to see what is REALLY going on.

[Muslimah]

And who are you to tell me I am making too quick of a judgment? This has been going on for 3 years - and I do know where they're coming from. I know whats "REALLY" going on. But of course, you know more than anyone in this whole universe.

[Iqra]

Hopefully you guys don't mind that I jump in ...but I think you guys are misunderstanding each other.

One wants help and the other needs help.

Pointing fingers and misjudging each other isn't going to solve the problem. Let's just try to figure this out inshaAllah.

[Roshina]

And who are you to tell me I am making too quick of a judgment? This has been going on for 3 years - and I do know where they're coming from.

I see you completely misunderstood. Again, I'm very sorry you take it this wrongly, but I have no intentions of blaming you for anything. You've done nothing wrong, especially since you're not a Pashtun to begin with and have not lived in a Pashtun culture. You're only an observer at this point, so it makes sense why you think the way you do.

Still, lemme clarify myself -- just so you know that I am not your enemy and can actually be useful to you if you see me as a potential friend.

When I said you're making too quick judgments, I was referring specifically to the tone you use when talking about his family. You've used terms like "disgusting" and you've sometimes said things like "rolling eyes" when talking about how his parents want him to marry a village girl instead. This means you are not attempting to see their side of the coin, and I find this unfair.

You don't like the fact that this girl is 16 years old, and you have made a point to make that known (which I don't have a problem with), BUT when talking about this 16-year-old girl from a village, you should not focus on her dream of becoming an actress; you should instead be focusing on the fact that a village girl has SOME dream! She has some place in life she'd like to one day be. Don't worry if it's acting -- she'll herself grow out of it after seeing what exactly goes on behind scenes, or she'll find something "more important" than acting... unless she's as persistent as humanly possible and never changes her mind.

The reason I say this is that in the village, girls don’t typically have dreams. For those who WANT to do something with their lives, as bad or un-Islamic as it might be in our opinions, is a big step, sis. EVERYONE wants to come to the U.S. and Canada and other western nations where they will be in peace and will have the freedom they’re denied to in their homeland. I find nothing absurd or silly or ridiculous in this village girl’s thought of marrying a Canadian citizen.

You've been raised in a country where you (most likely) have everything you want and need; you have experienced a life of pleasure (I'm making an assumption, I understand) and you've chosen for yourself a certain life style.

But people in the village don't get to choose. They are forced to live a certain way, and they're often -- if not always -- victims of smothering, vicious circumstances. We in the village are so poor that we pick up chewed gums from the street and eat them like it's nothing (I used to do that when I was a kid ALL the time).

You don't have to worry about keeping a culture and language alive. You don't have the pressure of finding someone who speaks your language and knows your culture and heritage well enough to pass it on to your children. But I have to worry about that, and so do many other Pashtuns.

When we go to sleep at night, things that most westerners would never even think of keep us awake at night. They include:

- At least SOME school is being bombed because it's accused of teaching western sciences, or has some westerners as teachers -- or because it is co-ed, or even just for girls
- I want to marry Person A, who's not Pashtun and doesn't know Pashto, but I must marry a Pashtun because if I don't, I'll be contributing to the demise of our language; when/if, God forbid, Pashtuns become extinct some day (God forbid), I will have contributed to it
- At least SOME woman there is being divorced and will not be allowed to see her children; when she's divorced, everyone will insult her and blame her for having brought the divorce upon herself, and she will have no support groups to turn to
- At least some woman is being beaten up miserably right now, and she has no one to turn to - no shelter, no hope
- At least some woman is trying to reason with her husband not to bring another wife home
- At least some girl is being killed right now because she talked to a man, or fell in love with someone and her parents found out -- or, worse, because she got raped, and while she's being punished, the rapist is most likely living in peace and peace somewhere
- At least one woman in our areas is being insulted for having given birth to a daughter
- At least some girls are being forced to marry men they don't like
- At least some people (boys and girls) are being denied the right to live a happy life with each other
- At least some girl is being killed right now because she talked to a man, or fell in love with someone and her parents found out.

And so on.

These, Muslima Sis, are our concerns. It's things like these that destroy our brain cells night by night.

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong in anything. No. You're new at this whole thing. But I'm trying to say that his parents have reasons to do what they're doing, and instead of thinking that they're just plain outright wrong, it'd be better, I'd think, if you actually understood them.

Maybe talk to them. Let them know that your version of Islam resembles theirs almost completely (if not all the way). Show them that you will be a great, if not perfect, daughter-in-law for them, that you will take perfect care of them, that you will try to learn their language as best you can so that you can address their needs. Show them that, for at least the sake of God, you will try never to let them down.

Three years is a long time to wait with/for someone, but sincerity and dedication will make it easier for you to wait even longer, if you think it's worth it.

Oh, and you should also talk to his sisters. Sisters tend to have a major influence on their brothers' marriages, trust me! I'm sure the sisters will love you enough to convince their parents to marry you to their brothers.

And if these sisters are unhappy in their forced marriages, they should tell their parents something like, "Look, we wish you hadn't forced us. Life could've been better for us, but since it's all done now and we can't turn back time, let's not make the same mistake with our brother. Let's let him marry a woman who will be good both for him and for us, and not just for us."

I'm more than sure that there's a way to make this work, and the guy has MUCH more power than he THINKS he does. He only needs some pushing. And that's why I think you should search for Pashtuns in your area (again, I know many Pashtuns in Toronto) who can knock some sense into him.

[tor_khan]

When we go to sleep at night, things that most westerners would never even think of keep us awake at night. They include:

- At least SOME school is being bombed because it's accused of teaching western sciences, or has some westerners as teachers -- or because it is co-ed, or even just for girls
- I want to marry Person A, who's not Pashtun and doesn't know Pashto, but I must marry a Pashtun because if I don't, I'll be contributing to the demise of our language; when/if, God forbid, Pashtuns become extinct some day (God forbid), I will have contributed to it
- At least SOME woman there is being divorced and will not be allowed to see her children; when she's divorced, everyone will insult her and blame her for having brought the divorce upon herself, and she will have no support groups to turn to
- At least some woman is being beaten up miserably right now, and she has no one to turn to - no shelter, no hope
- At least some woman is trying to reason with her husband not to bring another wife home
- At least some girl is being killed right now because she talked to a man, or fell in love with someone and her parents found out -- or, worse, because she got raped, and while she's being punished, the rapist is most likely living in peace and peace somewhere
- At least one woman in our areas is being insulted for having given birth to a daughter
- At least some girls are being forced to marry men they don't like
- At least some people (boys and girls) are being denied the right to live a happy life with each other
- At least some girl is being killed right now because she talked to a man, or fell in love with someone and her parents found out.

And so on.

The problem with this list Q, is that it is not how I would describe many Pashtoons that I know. It's a kind of a badly drawn charicature of what Pashtoons are popularly (negatively) depicted as. In fact, if there are Pashtoons who fit this description, then there are Panjabees and others to whom this applies. There are Hindu Gujaratis to whom this applies, Sri Lankans, Palestinians, Greeks, Scandavians, Brits and Americans, plus of minus a couple of items. In fact, which people in the world ARE blemish free?

Do I lie awake at night, contemplating the horrible things on your list? Quite honestly, I worry about a lot of things, but I wouldn't want to patronise in any way, by claiming to understand the reasons these complex things happen. Sure poverty and lack of education plays a part, but lying awake at night happens for many other complex reasons too, not just because Westerners can't understand our problems. Westerners have problems too.

Pashtoons do not hold the monopoly on the most negative and undesirable culture. We Pashtoons need to totally step away from the negative stereotypes that people have about us. Totally step away.

This is not to deny the reality, but, let's balance things. In my family, some of the Pashtanas that I know are teachers, doctors, social workers, have MBAs etc. Some married young, some through choice, some struggle a little, others don't, some are very pious, others maybe less so. The same is true of Pashtoon men - we're not just cardboard cut-out villains.

That my wife and I both represent middle class upbringings, not withstanding, we had a very traditional arranged setup. My brother, on the other hand didn't opt for that. My nephew's recent marriage was arranged, but less rigidly so than mine - marriage and its reasons for happening in the way it does are complex.

[spogmai shaglay]

da asherwatch na asherwath dey, da hindi takey dii. indian are using this word for good luck.

its actually Ashirwaad... which means blessings in Hindi... and ya used by indian....

[spogmai shaglay]

i've a pashtoon guy married a indian lady which the children r now nowhere they arent hindo not even muslim
i feel sorry for them kind of ppl but if u marry afghhan which they r farsi spoken that would be better coz u know both langauges and culture
like me lol
mixed

Sheenakay.... when u say indian plz specify that u r refering to a hindu here... coz my dear friend, all indians are not hindus... Alhumdullilah there are a lot of muslims and yes pakhtuns tooooooo.....

[spogmai shaglay]

^Its my influence. I influence people here.


I have influenced Feroza,Angaar,Iqra, you,Laila and many more.



but seriously,


if he loves you he will do it . For a Pashtun to marry a non Pashtun that is not deviant behavior anymore.


my cousin (man) is marrying a Tajik girl of Kandahar.


they both speak Pashto so it's fine.


keyword is Pashto.

so Muslimah you are not participating in any pashto courses here. Team up with spoghmai shaghaly I think that's how you spell her username. She is a nice girl and both of you can learn.

its spogmai shaglay which means moonlight i guess.....

Muslimah.... it will be great to learn with u...........

[Feroza_Banu]

his family WONT disown him sweets... one thing u need to know about pashtoons is that they can never let go of their SON. if their daughter makes the same mistake, they might even kill her but their SON!... pshhhhhhhhhh who cares... they will be sad or dishearted for a while... but once his son goes back to visit them they will embrace him fully. they actually might throw a grand party...

u don't know much about pashtoons do u haha... they will disown their son!?

[Sheenka]

Nice response, but I wouldnt choose anyone who is not Pashtun. I need someone to speak Pashto with me and understand why we do Attan, why we have certain cultural things.

I dont want to feel like I am in school and too busy learning his culture and adapting to his values.

why do we do attan? is there any reason why?
plz let me if anyone knows
tanks

[Sheenka]

Sheenakay.... when u say indian plz specify that u r refering to a hindu here... coz my dear friend, all indians are not hindus... Alhumdullilah there are a lot of muslims and yes pakhtuns tooooooo.....

i mean hindo indian