Why women should not drive.

[kakargirl]

YouTube - Women Drivers Compilation (

LOL

I just had these too

YouTube - Yes, it's a woman!

YouTube - Woman Driver VS Parking Lot - VERY FUNNY

nice one, i'v actually seen all this on uni grounds even lol, one reversed the car and drove right on to pavement , nearly knocking me over, if i hadn't jumped out the way.

[TheRealPower]

to my respect women knows drive should defend theirlsefs

[Haris]

Whats up momma's boy...
Haris ...

I love my mother. I would do whatever my mother commands as long as it is in reasonable bounds. Therefore I am a 'momma's boy'. Are you?

Alchemist, I am a Muslim. I pray everday and I study the teachings of Islam in my free time. Maybe you haven't heard of the famous hadtih where the man goes to the prophet (saw) and asks 'who should I show the most kindness and respect to?'. The prophet (saw) replied 'Your mother'. The man asked 'Then who?', the prophet said 'Your mother'. He asked 'and then?' and the answer was the same. The man asked one more time and the prophet (saw) replied 'Then, your father'.

Please be mindful when using terms like 'momma's boy' that disobeying one's mother is one of the greatest sins in Islaam.

Now that is not to mean that I am dependant on my mother. Rather I provide for her however I can. You make such disrespectful generalistations about me.



I ask you, do you respect your mother? Or do you describe her like you describe women in this thread?

You typify today's boymen.
Yes! Boymen. Boys that never become men because they still have their umbilical cords attached to mommy.

Hmm, I think you would make a good comedian.

It's rather a shame to see that men are no longer able to be men because they have psychologically screwed up by women to think that they "would be nothing without women".

Simple biology will tell you that you would be nothing without women.

Which is why in highschool there was always that young bright boy, with loads of potential of fulfilling his destiny as the next big man...only to fall for some girl and then turn into majnoon... and ruin his life for adorning a women too much. TOO MUCH. Don't you think you are exaggerating a bit too much?

I think it is you who is exaggerating. Do you think that the above example has never happened with women?

Do you think that men do not take advantage of women either? Have you heard of the bright young girl who was training to be a nurse and was predicted good grades but then had a baby with a 'boyfriend' who left her as soon as he found out? No, no of course not. Only women can ruin men's lives - never the other way round!

But then again ...think about. Which one of us is worse? You or me?

Looking at your first post, I would say you. But unlike you I am not stupid enough to make these generalisations about you. I do not know who you are or what you do yet you seem to know everything about me.

I am not the one who is depending on mommy to go do the groceries and still put toilet paper in my bathroom and do this or that for me. I am a man. I don't put the keys in my mom's hands and the tell her to go out to the market and haul groceries home. But I bet you do. Because mommy is superwoman and she can do everything. And women are like that too...self sacrificing. Ready to till the earth till the cows come home. I bet you are happy with your self...to have your sister go work for some strangers and then feel really good about your self for being "open minded" enough to relagate your responsibilities as a man to women. Boymen like you will never gain the respect of their women. You adore them too much. "The pain and suffering of your mommy" is for some reason your pride and reason for existence. It's sad. It really is sad. I feel sorry for your mommy. I know your mommy is content for babying you all the way to the grave. It's in her nature...heck if you wanted to...she'd still put you in diapers. Which is probably why you still feel inadequate. Perhaps you feel that you are not a great man because you still don't have a woman "behind" you.
Don't get it twisted son. It's the job of the man to lead his woman. Not the other way around.

You have a very large ego. You may take that as a compliment if you wish.

I understand why Boymen have a hard time just becoming men. After all, we come from the womb...it's only natural for some to want to return to it when the world shuns you and you feel defeated.

And how has the world shun me? If I respect women I am a boyman? If I do not threaten women I am a boyman?

You say that men can be barbaric and all hell will break loose and that women should be grateful that men are so civil?

Heh, you are not a man if you threaten your wife. You are not a man if you cannot control your own emotions - just like you talk of women always crying etc.

It takes a very weak person to threaten their wfie let alone abuse them yet you make fun of women who are sexually harrassed and say that they are lucky they get the attention of men?

Anyway. You are excused.
And for the record
I didn't "objectify" women

Hmm,

Women are tools.

For your information a tool is an object

[torkham]

there are many good women drivers out there, and there are equally bad, dangerous aggressive, road-rage aggressive reckless, testosterone-driven men drivers out there too! all these guys use their handphones when driving, all text messages when driving, many jump and twitch in their seat when they lose a lit cigarette in the lap or back . . . . cut lanes, show off wanabe track skills on roads!!!

you youngstars do you know what you want? should women drive? that is the question? it is a loaded question.

when i was a boy, women who drove cars, like in kabul, were considered, bad women . . . . . reasons which basically meant they got up to what western highschool girls get up to with boys, like it is so accurately reflected highschool/college movies, i am sure it goes on, but that is basically what we were told, retrospectivley, about girls driving.

i went along with that opinion, with those reasons as a teenager, taking in knowledge claims without analysing.

when my family moved to saudia in the 70s we came across national law forbidding women from driving, no shock to us, i had never seen a woman driving in nangarhar or surobi. so i carried on accepting it as normal. it was my paradigm.

then i went to UK. I saw women driving buses, okay they were english or jamaican. But when ever I saw pashtun woman driving a car my prejudices were burning in my eyes, I just tisked and said these people are lost. then i heard of cases where some one's daughter ran away with a boy, sikh, pakistani, older man, married man, even a jamaican. my prejudices were confirmed.

in germany situation was not as bad as there were not many pashtuns to meet, but I was shocked when a german guy i knew said he was seeing this amazing girl, told me what he got up to with her and what she did for his pleasures. then one day i bumped into him and her, she was a beautiful pashtun girl, but totally gone wild compared to sisters back home. i asked myself what happened to her.

then i started analysing, was it the car, was it the mobility, was it the freedom, was it the responsibility given, was it the independence given or the education given to these girls that resulted in decline of their pashtun and islamic values.

then i read of the great muslim heroines who rode in wars. there was no fatwa in women driving. it is only a culltural condition of the modern bedouin arabs of saudia and some of our brothers suffer it too.

as for my analysis, car is an accelerating factor, a catalyst leading girls AND BOYS astray, BUT so is not educating boys and girls the values of pashtuns and muslims, or parents not being judicious in giving responsibility or parents negligent in observing their kids, not knowing what their kids are upto, who their friends are, and not educating their kids what is right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Honestly, who cares, cars are contraptions that pollute our environment, urge people to build infrastructures that trample all over the natural world; and has enabled people to become lazy, sedentary sheep. Why should we measure merit by something that has very little to begin with?

[Alchemist]

I agree Haris. A tool is an object.
And I never said that you should not obey your mother. Rather you should have the women of your household respect and obey you on account of your manliness. A man is the pillar of his house and, of course, no house can be a home without a woman in it.
And for the record, yes, I tell my mom that she is a bad driver and even she aknowledges this. Infact, I get worried sick if my mother has to drive anywhere unknown to her, alone. I have to draw big maps for her. Like yesterday, there was a samanak mayla somewhere on the outskirts of toronto and it is a female only event. So to make sure she gets there and not end up in the USA instead.. I drew her a big map and I even went on google satellite and zoomed to street level to show her what things to look out for. I explained it to her for 15 minutes straight. Sure enough an hour later she called me because the road conditions had changed, she had taken a route different then what I had told her to follow so she was lost. Then I had her put me on speaker and explain to me what road she passed and if she had turned left or right. Women have no sense of direction, so obviously I couldn't tell if she was driving east, west, north or south and when they panic it gets even worse...I had to ask what street she just passed by...and she gave a description of the scenery...that there are farms with cows in it and no buildings around. In any case, she made it there safely and on time. But the point ...there is no question about the fact that they can't drive.
And all this about men being nothing without women...this is a totally different issue. I never said anything ill about mothers. And for the record I don't consider mothers in the same category as "girls" and "women". When a woman becomes a mother her psychology changes totally, her out look on life, her focus and tenacity and even demeanor flip. They become more purposeful. I suppose the experience of birth finally hammers into their head the truth that they are not men and they need not compete with men or try to prove their fathers or society wrong by taking manly aspirations. Seldom will you find a mother wanting to backpack across europe or fly an aeroplane across the atlantic or swim across the english channel. Not unless they are very bad at being mothers. So don't get it twisted. I am not insulting mothers by calling you a mamma's boy...I am just insulting you for wanting your mother to be taking your father's place. The hadith should be an indication that you should be kind to your mother, in that you shouldn't trouble her by having expectations from her ...such as to drive. And yes, I do have a large ego...and I don't like seeing my mother pushing the coaches and lifting the chairs like some olympic weight lifter and I'd get mad and furious if I come to find the furniture rearranged or the walls painted when she was there alone. If it were up to me she would do absolutely nothing around the house. However, when it comes to my mother, I can't say anything to her. I can't tell her how to dress, where to go and what to eat or say. That is my father's job. If my father is happy with the way my mother acts and speaks, then who am I to say anything? She gave birth to me, reared me in infancy, taught me how to speak and walk ...but she couldn't have done any of that, as a mother should, without my father's support. My mother took care of me, and my father took care of my mother. So if you follow the hadith, the Holy Prophet peace be upon him says mother three times, but on the fourth, he says, "Then your father". There is great wisdom behind the hadith. But you should then also have heard of another hadith of the description of hell. Such that it is filled with a greater majority of women. Women who were ungrateful to their husbands to be exact. And these are the women that I was admonishing. A great number of girls on other threads were discussing how women had received nothing from their husbands and were ill treated back home. On account of the fact that there is nothing back home but poverty anyway...they still could not understand the men's position but could only sympathize with the poor women. Then you might have also heard of the Hadith wherein Ibrahim peace be upon him, after many years, returned to arabia to visit his son's (Ishmael) house only to find his wife there. He had not met her before, so he told her he was her husbands father and entered the house. There he asked her how he was treating her and she complained that Ishmael could barely make ends meet. He told her to tell Ishmael when he comes home to "change the door of your house". She did not understand this and related the message to her husband when he returned. When she asked Ishmael what it meant, he said to her "He told me to divorce you and find another wife". And so he did. Upon Ibrahim (alihi Salam) next return he found another woman in Ishmael's house opening the door. So he greeted her and told her he was her father in law and entered the house. And again he asked "How is Ishmael treating you". To which the wife replied "Alhamdullilah we are doing fine." And he said to her, rely to my son "Keep this door of your house".
So you and I have different approaches towards our mothers because you and I have different expectations from them. And to answer your question - No, I am not a mamma's boy. I am not a boy anymore. I am a man and I have had to convince my mother of this fact...although, with great difficulty. She will still talk about me as when I was the 2 year old boy that rampaged her house and terrorized her guests children. So in her mind I am now showing a lot more restraint on my emotions and improved a heck of a lot more. And this because of the obvious fact that no one, except Allah, knows me better than her.
I don't have any sisters so I can't say much about that. But if I did it wouldn't be same...since she wouldn't be a mother. Mothers are a totally different being and I never insulted anyone's mother. But still...they can't drive.
Furthermore, I never made any comments about "men sexually harassing women" so I don't know why you are misquoting me here as well. Perhaps you assume that this should also be my position since I am so anti-feminist. Don't get it twisted. This was never about "Sexual" anything.

Have you heard of the bright young girl who was training to be a nurse and was predicted good grades but then had a baby with a 'boyfriend' who left her as soon as he found out? No, no of course not

In my books she is not that bright if she is having a boy friend ..and consenting to having sex before marriage. This is the great ignominy of our time. That we think a girl is good when her "Grades" are good or on a good "career" path. I don't care if you are a dishwasher or a brain surgeon, to me you are still human. Titles mean nothing to me, only deeds and character. Try giving me another example.
As far as I have seen, in literature and even statistics, men fall harder head over heels than women do. They get more easily infatuated and obsessed about the other sex. Take helen of troy for example...destroyed two great nations by her beauty. Mark Anthony, upon getting false news of cleopatras death, fell on his sword..false news that she fabricated in order to get his forgiveness for betraying him... romeo on seeing the pretend death of julia killed himself for real. So, if you weigh it out, great men did die because of women..so the saying is only half true.

And since you study Islam in your spare time..why don't you comment on verse 4:34?
I am looking forward to it.

[torkham]

I read that our prophet (S) said following things contribute to happiness; a good wife, a spacious home and a good means of transport. I suppose 'means of transport' refers to camel or a horse, and I suppose the modern camel is the 4x4 and the horse is the sportscar.

SXE unfortunately cars are here. you are thinking of the natural world, just imagine how many cars there are in the world, and the trend line hasn't plateaued yet, now imagine the land fills that will be the graveyards of rusting iron, non-degradeable plastic, the thick oil, . . . . it is a depressing situation.

[ScimitarXEdge]

that's our future anyways wrora; even the hydrogen and solar car has sustainability limitations.

[Alchemist]

there are many good women drivers out there, and there are equally bad, dangerous aggressive, road-rage aggressive reckless, testosterone-driven men drivers out there too! all these guys use their handphones when driving, all text messages when driving, many jump and twitch in their seat when they lose a lit cigarette in the lap or back . . . . cut lanes, show off wanabe track skills on roads!!!

you youngstars do you know what you want? should women drive? that is the question? it is a loaded question.

when i was a boy, women who drove cars, like in kabul, were considered, bad women . . . . . reasons which basically meant they got up to what western highschool girls get up to with boys, like it is so accurately reflected highschool/college movies, i am sure it goes on, but that is basically what we were told, retrospectivley, about girls driving.

i went along with that opinion, with those reasons as a teenager, taking in knowledge claims without analysing.

when my family moved to saudia in the 70s we came across national law forbidding women from driving, no shock to us, i had never seen a woman driving in nangarhar or surobi. so i carried on accepting it as normal. it was my paradigm.

then i went to UK. I saw women driving buses, okay they were english or jamaican. But when ever I saw pashtun woman driving a car my prejudices were burning in my eyes, I just tisked and said these people are lost. then i heard of cases where some one's daughter ran away with a boy, sikh, pakistani, older man, married man, even a jamaican. my prejudices were confirmed.

in germany situation was not as bad as there were not many pashtuns to meet, but I was shocked when a german guy i knew said he was seeing this amazing girl, told me what he got up to with her and what she did for his pleasures. then one day i bumped into him and her, she was a beautiful pashtun girl, but totally gone wild compared to sisters back home. i asked myself what happened to her.

then i started analysing, was it the car, was it the mobility, was it the freedom, was it the responsibility given, was it the independence given or the education given to these girls that resulted in decline of their pashtun and islamic values.

then i read of the great muslim heroines who rode in wars. there was no fatwa in women driving. it is only a culltural condition of the modern bedouin arabs of saudia and some of our brothers suffer it too.

as for my analysis, car is an accelerating factor, a catalyst leading girls AND BOYS astray, BUT so is not educating boys and girls the values of pashtuns and muslims, or parents not being judicious in giving responsibility or parents negligent in observing their kids, not knowing what their kids are upto, who their friends are, and not educating their kids what is right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

IIIiiiii....disagree with your later analysis.

But whole heartedly agree with the first part. It was the car brother. It is the car. The comparison with camels is totally different. A camel is a living creature. You don't "drive" a camel. You just guide it. Plus the belief that women shouldn't drive came to be from the previous belief that women shouldn't ride. Riding was only done out of necessity..if they were to go for hajj or ummrah but still a mahram was accompanying them. Some one who tended to the animal. Beasts have a mind of their own and rarely was domestication of wild horses part of the duties of women.

Those girls with freedom to move around willy nilly ...just end up going places where they shouldn't be. When a boy wants freedom, his father buys him a car. And usually those boys that drive fast and fancy cars do it for impressing girls. This is a fact you can't deny. So if the girls weren't so materialistic, then the boys wouldn't be that much into it. Especially in western societies where girls as young as 12 years of age are taught to flaunt their sexuality in public. So there is a greater majority of young boys that have no other interest in their life save impressing girls. And naturally, if you want to impress another human being, you just mimic them. If you want to impress your boss, then you talk like him, dress in a manner like him. So you have these young fools with earrings and gold chains and skinny pants and metrosexual hair cuts. I am not putting all the blame on girls...but most of them are just feeding the fire in these stupid boys hearts...either consciously or subconsciously.

For the record. I can eat a burrittoin one hand, text message on my cell phone in the other while driving a standard car with my knee ...all simultaneously! (Gosh shaitan kar :D)

[torkham]

I agree Haris. A tool is an object.
And I never said that you should not obey your mother. Rather you should have the women of your household respect and obey you on account of your manliness. A man is the pillar of his house and, of course, no house can be a home without a woman in it.
And for the record, yes, I tell my mom that she is a bad driver and even she aknowledges this. Infact, I get worried sick if my mother has to drive anywhere unknown to her, alone. I have to draw big maps for her. Like yesterday, there was a samanak mayla somewhere on the outskirts of toronto and it is a female only event. So to make sure she gets there and not end up in the USA instead.. I drew her a big map and I even went on google satellite and zoomed to street level to show her what things to look out for. I explained it to her for 15 minutes straight. Sure enough an hour later she called me because the road conditions had changed, she had taken a route different then what I had told her to follow so she was lost. Then I had her put me on speaker and explain to me what road she passed and if she had turned left or right. Women have no sense of direction, so obviously I couldn't tell if she was driving east, west, north or south and when they panic it gets even worse...I had to ask what street she just passed by...and she gave a description of the scenery...that there are farms with cows in it and no buildings around. In any case, she made it there safely and on time. But the point ...there is no question about the fact that they can't drive.
And all this about men being nothing without women...this is a totally different issue. I never said anything ill about mothers. And for the record I don't consider mothers in the same category as "girls" and "women". When a woman becomes a mother her psychology changes totally, her out look on life, her focus and tenacity and even demeanor flip. They become more purposeful. I suppose the experience of birth finally hammers into their head the truth that they are not men and they need not compete with men or try to prove their fathers or society wrong by taking manly aspirations. Seldom will you find a mother wanting to backpack across europe or fly an aeroplane across the atlantic or swim across the english channel. Not unless they are very bad at being mothers. So don't get it twisted. I am not insulting mothers by calling you a mamma's boy...I am just insulting you for wanting your mother to be taking your father's place. The hadith should be an indication that you should be kind to your mother, in that you shouldn't trouble her by having expectations from her ...such as to drive. And yes, I do have a large ego...and I don't like seeing my mother pushing the coaches and lifting the chairs like some olympic weight lifter and I'd get mad and furious if I come to find the furniture rearranged or the walls painted when she was there alone. If it were up to me she would do absolutely nothing around the house. However, when it comes to my mother, I can't say anything to her. I can't tell her how to dress, where to go and what to eat or say. That is my father's job. If my father is happy with the way my mother acts and speaks, then who am I to say anything? She gave birth to me, reared me in infancy, taught me how to speak and walk ...but she couldn't have done any of that, as a mother should, without my father's support. My mother took care of me, and my father took care of my mother. So if you follow the hadith, the Holy Prophet peace be upon him says mother three times, but on the fourth, he says, "Then your father". There is great wisdom behind the hadith. But you should then also have heard of another hadith of the description of hell. Such that it is filled with a greater majority of women. Women who were ungrateful to their husbands to be exact. And these are the women that I was admonishing. A great number of girls on other threads were discussing how women had received nothing from their husbands and were ill treated back home. On account of the fact that there is nothing back home but poverty anyway...they still could not understand the men's position but could only sympathize with the poor women. Then you might have also heard of the Hadith wherein Ibrahim peace be upon him, after many years, returned to arabia to visit his son's (Ishmael) house only to find his wife there. He had not met her before, so he told her he was her husbands father and entered the house. There he asked her how he was treating her and she complained that Ishmael could barely make ends meet. He told her to tell Ishmael when he comes home to "change the door of your house". She did not understand this and related the message to her husband when he returned. When she asked Ishmael what it meant, he said to her "He told me to divorce you and find another wife". And so he did. Upon Ibrahim (alihi Salam) next return he found another woman in Ishmael's house opening the door. So he greeted her and told her he was her father in law and entered the house. And again he asked "How is Ishmael treating you". To which the wife replied "Alhamdullilah we are doing fine." And he said to her, rely to my son "Keep this door of your house".
So you and I have different approaches towards our mothers because you and I have different expectations from them. And to answer your question - No, I am not a mamma's boy. I am not a boy anymore. I am a man and I have had to convince my mother of this fact...although, with great difficulty. She will still talk about me as when I was the 2 year old boy that rampaged her house and terrorized her guests children. So in her mind I am now showing a lot more restraint on my emotions and improved a heck of a lot more. And this because of the obvious fact that no one, except Allah, knows me better than her.
I don't have any sisters so I can't say much about that. But if I did it wouldn't be same...since she wouldn't be a mother. Mothers are a totally different being and I never insulted anyone's mother. But still...they can't drive.
Furthermore, I never made any comments about "men sexually harassing women" so I don't know why you are misquoting me here as well. Perhaps you assume that this should also be my position since I am so anti-feminist. Don't get it twisted. This was never about "Sexual" anything.


In my books she is not that bright if she is having a boy friend ..and consenting to having sex before marriage. This is the great ignominy of our time. That we think a girl is good when her "Grades" are good or on a good "career" path. I don't care if you are a dishwasher or a brain surgeon, to me you are still human. Titles mean nothing to me, only deeds and character. Try giving me another example.
As far as I have seen, in literature and even statistics, men fall harder head over heels than women do. They get more easily infatuated and obsessed about the other sex. Take helen of troy for example...destroyed two great nations by her beauty. Mark Anthony, upon getting false news of cleopatras death, fell on his sword..false news that she fabricated in order to get his forgiveness for betraying him... romeo on seeing the pretend death of julia killed himself for real. So, if you weigh it out, great men did die because of women..so the saying is only half true.

And since you study Islam in your spare time..why don't you comment on verse 4:34?
I am looking forward to it.

what a reference, Helen of Troy.
I wonder how many people know of the reasons behind the trojan war.
manan!

[torkham]

IIIiiiii....disagree with your later analysis.

But whole heartedly agree with the first part. It was the car brother. It is the car. The comparison with camels is totally different. A camel is a living creature. You don't "drive" a camel. You just guide it. Plus the belief that women shouldn't drive came to be from the previous belief that women shouldn't ride. Riding was only done out of necessity..if they were to go for hajj or ummrah but still a mahram was accompanying them. Some one who tended to the animal. Beasts have a mind of their own and rarely was domestication of wild horses part of the duties of women.

Those girls with freedom to move around willy nilly ...just end up going places where they shouldn't be. When a boy wants freedom, his father buys him a car. And usually those boys that drive fast and fancy cars do it for impressing girls. This is a fact you can't deny. So if the girls weren't so materialistic, then the boys wouldn't be that much into it. Especially in western societies where girls as young as 12 years of age are taught to flaunt their sexuality in public. So there is a greater majority of young boys that have no other interest in their life save impressing girls. And naturally, if you want to impress another human being, you just mimic them. If you want to impress your boss, then you talk like him, dress in a manner like him. So you have these young fools with earrings and gold chains and skinny pants and metrosexual hair cuts. I am not putting all the blame on girls...but most of them are just feeding the fire in these stupid boys hearts...either consciously or subconsciously.

For the record. I can eat a burrittoin one hand, text message on my cell phone in the other while driving a standard car with my knee ...all simultaneously! (Gosh shaitan kar :D)

OK Wrora kimiyai, I can go along a discussion on the interpretation of women riding camel and driving a car, for starters the paralle of the mahram implies, a mahram can drive one car and the lady can drive her car and he can drive along . . . where is that going to take us?

as for your abilities to eat burrito and text and and roll naswar simultaneously, i would suggest you keep well away from my MAN truck, it can totally drive over a car.

i am sure you can out accelerate my truck but momentum is on my side.

time to catch fast and furious number 3.

[Alchemist]

^ lol
why would a mahram drive along in his own car?
So if a camel is a car then your man truck is what? A mule?
Does that make elephants buses and donkeys mini vans, horses motor cycles and bicycles dogs and roller skates mice?
I like how everyone here has figured me out already...I roll naswar, beat women up and am also racist. Didn't know I was such a badass ...thanks.

[Haris]

I agree Haris. A tool is an object.

And I never said that you should not obey your mother. Rather you should have the women of your household respect and obey you on account of your manliness. A man is the pillar of his house and, of course, no house can be a home without a woman in it.

I agree with this. Only as long as you show respect to the woman. Do you agree?

And for the record, yes, I tell my mom that she is a bad driver and even she aknowledges this. Infact, I get worried sick if my mother has to drive anywhere unknown to her, alone. I have to draw big maps for her. Like yesterday, there was a samanak mayla somewhere on the outskirts of toronto and it is a female only event. So to make sure she gets there and not end up in the USA instead.. I drew her a big map and I even went on google satellite and zoomed to street level to show her what things to look out for. I explained it to her for 15 minutes straight. Sure enough an hour later she called me because the road conditions had changed, she had taken a route different then what I had told her to follow so she was lost. Then I had her put me on speaker and explain to me what road she passed and if she had turned left or right. Women have no sense of direction, so obviously I couldn't tell if she was driving east, west, north or south and when they panic it gets even worse...I had to ask what street she just passed by...and she gave a description of the scenery...that there are farms with cows in it and no buildings around. In any case, she made it there safely and on time. But the point ...there is no question about the fact that they can't drive.

All this about your mother's lack of driving ability is not of concern to me. It was a nice story however

Whether you think women can drive alone or not is not a bother with me. Argue that with the women here not with me.

And all this about men being nothing without women...this is a totally different issue.

Do you agree that a good man needs a good woman? And that a good woman needs a good man?

I never said anything ill about mothers. And for the record I don't consider mothers in the same category as "girls" and "women". When a woman becomes a mother her psychology changes totally, her out look on life, her focus and tenacity and even demeanor flip. They become more purposeful. I suppose the experience of birth finally hammers into their head the truth that they are not men and they need not compete with men or try to prove their fathers or society wrong by taking manly aspirations.

Indeed.

Seldom will you find a mother wanting to backpack across europe or fly an aeroplane across the atlantic or swim across the english channel. Not unless they are very bad at being mothers.

And...?

So don't get it twisted. I am not insulting mothers by calling you a mamma's boy...I am just insulting you for wanting your mother to be taking your father's place.

Oh if you were right infront of me I would test your 'manliness' for that comment. But why do you believe this? I told you that I believe that men and women have specific roles in life.

And yes, I do have a large ego...and I don't like seeing my mother pushing the coaches and lifting the chairs like some olympic weight lifter and I'd get mad and furious if I come to find the furniture rearranged or the walls painted when she was there alone.

o_O?

If it were up to me she would do absolutely nothing around the house. However, when it comes to my mother, I can't say anything to her. I can't tell her how to dress, where to go and what to eat or say. That is my father's job. If my father is happy with the way my mother acts and speaks, then who am I to say anything? She gave birth to me, reared me in infancy, taught me how to speak and walk ...but she couldn't have done any of that, as a mother should, without my father's support.

I agree. Do you think your father could live a good life without the support of a mentally strong woman?

My mother took care of me, and my father took care of my mother. So if you follow the hadith, the Holy Prophet peace be upon him says mother three times, but on the fourth, he says, "Then your father". There is great wisdom behind the hadith.

I agree.

But you should then also have heard of another hadith of the description of hell. Such that it is filled with a greater majority of women. Women who were ungrateful to their husbands to be exact. And these are the women that I was admonishing.

Yet according to other hadith there will be more women in heaven than men.

In any case if you are admonishing ungrateful, lazy, uncharitable women then I have no issue with that. Be wary though as it comes across as if you are being disrespectful to all women.

So you and I have different approaches towards our mothers because you and I have different expectations from them.

Please tell me the expectations I have of my mother.

And to answer your question - No, I am not a mamma's boy. I am not a boy anymore. I am a man and I have had to convince my mother of this fact...although, with great difficulty. She will still talk about me as when I was the 2 year old boy that rampaged her house and terrorized her guests children. So in her mind I am now showing a lot more restraint on my emotions and improved a heck of a lot more. And this because of the obvious fact that no one, except Allah, knows me better than her.

That is nice.

I don't have any sisters so I can't say much about that. But if I did it wouldn't be same...since she wouldn't be a mother. Mothers are a totally different being and I never insulted anyone's mother. But still...they can't drive.

Take it up with the women

Furthermore, I never made any comments about "men sexually harassing women" so I don't know why you are misquoting me here as well. Perhaps you assume that this should also be my position since I am so anti-feminist. Don't get it twisted. This was never about "Sexual" anything.

No. You do not get it twisted. I do not care if you are anti-feminist because I am not a feminist. Neither am I a masculinist.

Regarding the sexual stuff. This is from your first post:

"Oh he is torturing me...he is hitting mee" LOL .. I had a girl employee jokingly say this about a male co worker all day. Even women know that they can use that excuse of being a women...."sexual harassment"...Just be happy that we are acting this civil at least ... you don't want to see men turn barbaric ...and we turn barbaric ..all hell will break loose on earth

Now what is this rubbish?
Women should be grateful you are acting this civil at least?
That woman was a fool for joking about sexual harrasement but please explain your latter comment...It seems as if you are threatening women?

In my books she is not that bright if she is having a boy friend ..and consenting to having sex before marriage. This is the great ignominy of our time. That we think a girl is good when her "Grades" are good or on a good "career" path. I don't care if you are a dishwasher or a brain surgeon, to me you are still human. Titles mean nothing to me, only deeds and character.

Good stuff.

As far as I have seen, in literature and even statistics, men fall harder head over heels than women do. They get more easily infatuated and obsessed about the other sex. Take helen of troy for example...destroyed two great nations by her beauty. Mark Anthony, upon getting false news of cleopatras death, fell on his sword..false news that she fabricated in order to get his forgiveness for betraying him... romeo on seeing the pretend death of julia killed himself for real. So, if you weigh it out, great men did die because of women..so the saying is only half true.

Bah, greek tragedies. Point is men can fall head over heels for women but the opposite can happen too. I you believe that more men do this for women then surely it proves that men have weaker minds and less mental discipline than women?

And since you study Islam in your spare time..why don't you comment on verse 4:34?
I am looking forward to it.

I agree with it in that I believe that the man and woman have specific roles.

Throughout the Qu'raan it is emphasized that men and women are equal under Allah.

The man is obliged to provide for the woman in various ways and the woman should provide for the man in various ways.

If the woman falls out of line she should be punished. Similarly if the man falls out of line he should also be punished.

I would advise you to read 4:19.

And regarding the 'beating' of women. I am sure you have heard the various explanations of the context behind the word used there? If not google it. I do not wish to prolong this post further.

[Alchemist]

If the woman falls out of line she should be punished.

I rest my case.

[Mayana]

Boymen [...] will never gain the respect of their women. You adore them too much.

Touche.