Pashtun Nationalism or Islamic Nationalism?

[randolph85]

As my knowledge and beliefs have evolved throughout the years, I find Pashtun nationalism less important than Islamic nationalism. The point of worldly ethnic nationalism is to safeguard a culture and its traditions from outsiders but more importantly to protect itself from others. History has shown us that Pashtuns will fight each other one way or the other, within Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Pashtunistan. What do we have to safeguard from others when we are destroying ourselves?

Islamic nationalism is based on the idea of Muslim brotherhood and cooperation, a body whose parts are nations and peoples. History has shown that Muslims have been their strongest when are not separated by borders and politics.

I meant to write this out into a few more paragraphs but its late and I have writers block so I will leave you with a few quotes

Messenger of Allah addressed
them: “Get rid of these partisanships; these are foul things", and "He is not one of us who
calls toward partisanship, who fights for partisanship, and who dies for partisanship."

"O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam with complete submission to Allah. And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah (i.e. Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favors on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace you became brothers; and you were on the brink of the pit of fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah make His signs clear to you that you may be guided." [Surah Al'Imran (3); ayah 102-103]

It is narrated by Qatada that Ibnu Abi Hathim said that in the verses quoted above Allah (swt) has ordered the Muslims to hold fast to the book of Allah, His Deen, and to his covenant, and He has forbidden the Muslims to divide amongst themselves and to dispute with each other.
In another incident, Jabir ibn `Abd Allah al Ansari, narrated what happened at the watering place of al Muraysi which led to the Munafiqun stirring up the traces of `Asabiyyah and seeking to destroy the unity of the Muslims. He said: "We were on a raid when one of the Muhajirun kicked one of the Ansar. The Ansar said, `O Ansar! Help me! (calling his tribe) and the Muhajir said, `O Muhajirun! Help me! (calling his tribe). The Messenger of Allah (saaw) heard them and said,
"Why are you stirring up something which belongs to Jahilliyah?"
The Messenger of Allah (saaw) did not deal with the situation only by speaking to his men, but he walked with the men all that day until nightfall, and through the night until morning and during the following day until the sun distressed them. Then he halted them, and as soon as they touched the ground, they fell asleep. He did this to distract their minds from what had transpired.

[abubaker]

As my knowledge and beliefs have evolved throughout the years, I find Pashtun nationalism less important than Islamic nationalism. The point of worldly ethnic nationalism is to safeguard a culture and its traditions from outsiders but more importantly to protect itself from others. History has shown us that Pashtuns will fight each other one way or the other, within Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Pashtunistan. What do we have to safeguard from others when we are destroying ourselves?

Islamic nationalism is based on the idea of Muslim brotherhood and cooperation, a body whose parts are nations and peoples. History has shown that Muslims have been their strongest when are not separated by borders and politics.

I meant to write this out into a few more paragraphs but its late and I have writers block so I will leave you with a few quotes

Messenger of Allah addressed
them: “Get rid of these partisanships; these are foul things", and "He is not one of us who
calls toward partisanship, who fights for partisanship, and who dies for partisanship."

"O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam with complete submission to Allah. And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah (i.e. Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favors on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace you became brothers; and you were on the brink of the pit of fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah make His signs clear to you that you may be guided." [Surah Al'Imran (3); ayah 102-103]

It is narrated by Qatada that Ibnu Abi Hathim said that in the verses quoted above Allah (swt) has ordered the Muslims to hold fast to the book of Allah, His Deen, and to his covenant, and He has forbidden the Muslims to divide amongst themselves and to dispute with each other.
In another incident, Jabir ibn `Abd Allah al Ansari, narrated what happened at the watering place of al Muraysi which led to the Munafiqun stirring up the traces of `Asabiyyah and seeking to destroy the unity of the Muslims. He said: "We were on a raid when one of the Muhajirun kicked one of the Ansar. The Ansar said, `O Ansar! Help me! (calling his tribe) and the Muhajir said, `O Muhajirun! Help me! (calling his tribe). The Messenger of Allah (saaw) heard them and said,
"Why are you stirring up something which belongs to Jahilliyah?"
The Messenger of Allah (saaw) did not deal with the situation only by speaking to his men, but he walked with the men all that day until nightfall, and through the night until morning and during the following day until the sun distressed them. Then he halted them, and as soon as they touched the ground, they fell asleep. He did this to distract their minds from what had transpired.

no such a thing as islamic nationalism

[randolph85]

islam is nationalism, as the believers are one.

[abubaker]

islam is nationalism, as the believers are one.

explain to me

islam is a brother hood where every one is treated equally, that does not happen in nationalism

there is no Asabeyyah in islam

[darwezkhail]

explain to me

islam is a brother hood where every one is treated equally, that does not happen in nationalism

there is no Asabeyyah in islam

I think he is referring to the support of one, comprehensive, Islamic state which is what we should all be working towards..

Well said, randolph.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Pashtuns need nationalism so we can have our own country. Randolph we and our cousins Kurds are one of the largest ethnic group without a nation. Nationalism will create a patriotic feeling that will help us in uniting. Islam is fantastic but a caliph like govt is a dream. Islamic nationalism usually means we get abused for the gains of others.

weren't we also abused by so called Pashtun nationalists like najibullah though?

Think about it; we have never been abused by Islamic causes; because none of those things were actually standing for Islam; regional Muslim causes is not the same as Islamic causes.

[randolph85]

Pashtuns need nationalism so we can have our own country. Randolph we and our cousins Kurds are one of the largest ethnic group without a nation. Nationalism will create a patriotic feeling that will help us in uniting. Islam is fantastic but a caliph like govt is a dream. Islamic nationalism usually means we get abused for the gains of others.

a patriotic gov't doesn't guarantee rights of its citizens. look at russia and china for instance.

if you want a nation of pashtuns with pashtunwali was its legal basis, you would have less rights than under islam. if you want a nation without pashtunwali or islam as its basis than theres really no point in a nation for one people.

an islamic nation will only be abused while islamic countries are seperated, if we are one nation then the west or whoever else can't play one group against the other. the west has gone to great lengths to keep us seperated, and we have seen how thats gone for the middle east and elsewhere muslims live.

[randolph85]

Of course we have been abused by so-called "Islamic causes" remember the Taliban regime in Afghanistan? We saw the most extreme form of Islam ever. In this modern day of age nothing besides secularism works. Before I joined Pashtunforums I was just like you. Now I have learned and realized that I want to live in Afghanistan and be protected the same way I am protected in the USA.

secularism has a worse track record than islam. china, soviet union, russia, north korea, and other godless nations where far more people have been abused and killed than in any islamic country or in the name of islam.

the taliban is not a good example of what islam represents, as most if their extreme rules were anti islamic to begin with. if you want a good example of secularism in afghanistan look no farther than our communist government in the 80s which oversaw the deaths of 1.5 million civilians. now you might say well the communists didn't represent secularism either but while islam has specific ground rules and laws, secularism is simply a non religious government. this could be saddams iraq, to communist afghanistan, to norway.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^^^ Took the words right out of my mouth.


Secularism has done the most damage to the planet as a whole

Environmental Pollution and Destruction is a product of Secular Model of Social Order. They see everything as something to exploit and consume.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Of course we have been abused by so-called "Islamic causes" remember the Taliban regime in Afghanistan? We saw the most extreme form of Islam ever. In this modern day of age nothing besides secularism works. Before I joined Pashtunforums I was just like you. Now I have learned and realized that I want to live in Afghanistan and be protected the same way I am protected in the USA.

You admit yourself; that these things like Taliban are not actually Islamic so you can't use them as an example as a "form of Islam" anyways. So really you have no actual basis for denying the validity of an Islamic System or the merits of Secularism.


You have to look no further than America itself to know how secular systems of government are always the most corrupt and most detrimental.
Look at it's traditional pattern of organization and operations. America was built by Genocide of Native Americans, also most of the wars that America is involved in is to maintain the status quo; secular societies require exploitation and rapid consumption to operate so therefore they need corruption and intruding other countries or else their system would crumble.

As for protection; this is an illusion, the reason you feel protected is because you conform, of course if people conform to the power structure of the status quo, very little happens to them. But Let's say you wanted to change the Morality Laws of the United States where you try to remove social and moral corruption from propagating in society and cultivating itself in our Environment because they are destructive and dysfunctional, what would happen?

Or Let's be more practical, let's say you wanted to abolish Oligopolistic control of resources such as Energy in the United States, for example tried to have your own Wind Power System to sustain your community so you can bypass corporations who have control over power prodiction; what would the Authorities do to you?. Then you wouldn't be protected at all. In America it is control by corporate power, and this is why America imposes corruption in the society and the moral standards in society are diminished to condition subservience to it. People are oppressed by corruption; but they don't do much because they're pacified by the illusion or they're distracted.

You have to realize that a society like that cannot be sustained because it wastes too many resources and most of all it becomes internally dysfunctional. They say America will crumble in 50 years, then what will you do?

You also ignored my point about Najib; you know Najib was a Pashtoon Nationalist right? He killed more Pashtoons than the Taliban have done. In September 1979, Najib killed 140,000 Afghans in just one year. This doesn't make Taliban better, but point is, that Secularism has not provided much global benefit.

[fzpz]

As for protection; this is an illusion, the reason you feel protected is because you conform, of course if people conform to the power structure of the status quo, very little happens to them.

Expanding further, you could just as easily feel 'protected' under the taliban, or communism, or shia theocracy, only if you conform to their power structure. It's true for every system, including democracy or secularism.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Expanding further, you could just as easily feel 'protected' under the taliban, or communism, or shia theocracy, only if you conform to their power structure. It's true for every system, including democracy or secularism.

Absolutely; I mean that's not necessarily bad or good, but my point was simply to elucidate that praising america just because one is not in immediate danger out of conforming inspite of other corrupt aspects of it that one simply does not oppose or only opposes in a "sanctioned" manner , isn't a merit.

[unknownprince]

Jasmine,
I hope you as a journalist are covering the truth about Afghanistan instead of playing along with the media. I assume you work for a US media org.

When this is all said and done, everyone will be dealt with.

[unknownprince]

Jasmine, it is your duty as a person to do this.

[graveyardofempires]

is nationalism same as patriotism.
i think there is ahuge difference between the two.


nationalism is some what materialism