Afghan-pashtun community in foriegn countries

[Michin Khel]

Most of the members here live in US, canda, UK or other european countries. I am interested to know about extent of sense of community in pashtuns there.

The pakistani pashtuns there make family friends with punjabis, urduspeakers more often or with their afghan fellows?
In social events pakistani pashtuns participate in afghan events or pakistani?

[Michin Khel]

Does marraige between pak-pashtun and afghan is normal and common thing there?

Pakistani pashtuns there identify themeselves as pakistanis or afghan?

[KhalsaWarrior]

Does marraige between pak-pashtun and afghan is normal and common thing there?

Pakistani pashtuns there identify themeselves as pakistanis or afghan?

No offense, but I thought you were a Pakistani Pashtun. Wouldn't you already know the answer to these questions?

[Michin Khel]

No offense, but I thought you were a Pakistani Pashtun. Wouldn't you already know the answer to these questions?

Ya but i live in pakistan , i dont know about the situation in foriegn countries.

[KhalsaWarrior]

Ya but i live in pakistan , i dont know about the situation in foriegn countries.

Ahh, Ok.

So whats the situation on your side of the Durand line? As somebody above mentioned, are marriages between Pashtuns and Punjabis common? I've heard the Niazi Pashtuns are very closely inter-mingled with Punjabis.

[IamDZJ]

My afghan friends older sister is happily married to a pakistani guy from lahor. He is such a respectful man.
Sana, my other friend is from karachi pakistan. She married a nangarhari guy. Their families get along fine. The food is different but other than that I dont see any other diffrence in them.

I also believe that there are many other factors to preserving ones culture than just being married to some one of your own.

[Ghorzang]

It is not very common from Pashtuns of Lar aw Bar to marry each other. It is almost the same from Pashtuns of one province to marry a Pashtun from another province inside Afghanistan.

The thing is, our cultures are the same, but not our customs and all of traditions. For example, people of Wardak have totally different traditions than Laghmanis, Logaris or Kandaharis. So, they prefer to marry as close as they can. Most of the inter-marriages between different ethnic groups in Afghanistan still takes place within the boundaries of the province. For example, a Pashtun of Logar marries a Tajik of Logar. A Tajik is more comfortable tradition wise to marry a Pashtun of Logar than a Tajik of Badakhshan.

Customs and traditions play an important role. That is why Niazi Pashtuns in Punjab and Karachi prefer to marry a Punjabi or a resident of Karachi. Traditionally, they are more close to them then they are to Pashtuns of Swat, Peshawar and Mardan. The same apply for Pashtuns of Peshawar and Kabul.

The same can be said about friendship and other relationships.

[Admin Khan]

Hi Luffy, singa ya wrora?

First thing is first, refrain from the Pakistani Pashtun this and Afghan Pashtun that because it's inadvertently dividing us. As far as your concern goes, due to the amount of Afghans that live in my city, nearly every Pashtun I know considers himself Afghan. In fact, I even have Punjabi friends who proudly claim they are part Afghan and they happily visit social events revolving around Afghans. A perfect example is the soccer event I posted about, there were hundreds of Pashtuns from modern day Pakistan but no one cared, why didn't they care? Because there are no differences between us. I honestly do not understand this hype, we shouldn't act like we are 2 separate ethnic groups. We obviously get a long, because we share the same blood. I meet Pashtuns of Pakistan every other week at my job, and the minute I speak Pashto the first thing they do is, they assure me how happy he is to meet a Pashtun and how we shouldn't let others divide us(usually the older generations tell me this, younger generation seems to be more hooked on girls and parties)but nonetheless, communities do exist and no one really cares to ask where you are from. I was born here, and I've been raised with Pashtuns from both sides, and we never questioned each others 'Pashtunness'. I've had very good friends from Swat and despite at times having a slight difficulty in communicating, we never had these 'tensions'that the media propagates.*Same goes for Punjabis, I've had a handful of Sikh friends and I'll be honest with you they are extremely respectful and sincere. As far as marriages go, that's a personal decision. No one knows the underlying factors behind interracial marriages.

I have also had Tajik friends, and honestly, they speak Pashto just like me, and I honestly didn't even know they were Tajik. So this whole hype that Pashtuns,Tajiks and Punjabis are at each others throats is nonsense. At a political level, there might be concerns, but the reality on ground level is much different. Oh, and the Tajiks I am speaking about are not from 'Kandahar' they are from Kabul and they are fluent in Pashto. *And to be honest with you, good and bad does exist, since I have had bad experiences which I have posted about but the middle and poor class doesn't care where you are from. Ta pa dey kaar ma lara, hagha par ta kaar na larey.Most of the community events usually are from Afghanistan, In fact, even when Rahim Shah had came here, his stage I heard was full of Afghans. :-)

Prince Regards

[Ghorzang]

Ghurzang that is true. We Kandaharis have customs that only the Uzbeks,Tajiks,Hazaras,Hindus,Sikhs of Kandahar understand better than a Pashtun from marwat but that doesn't mean we aren't similar.

These differences (between customs and tradition) at the end, play a very important role in our rural society.

However, as the communities progress and the differences between customs and traditions decreases the divisions will decrease as well. Those Pashtuns from other provinces who live in Kabul, have a totalMost o different mentality than the traditional Pashtuns. Most of the inter-marriages between Pashtuns of different provinces take place in that province. As Kandaharis, Logaris, Laghmanis and Wardaks lose, mix and create a new Kabuli Pashtun tradition.

Now, these inter-provincial differences have disappeared in the west, but there still exists those lar aw bar differences.

[Michin Khel]

I am interested to know about extent of sense of community in pashtuns there.

The pakistani pashtuns there make family friends with punjabis, urduspeakers more often or with their afghan fellows?
In social events pakistani pashtuns participate in afghan events or pakistani?

Nobody answered the above questions, why the discussion is restricted to marraiges only?

[Feroza_Banu]

Nobody answered the above questions, why the discussion is restricted to marraiges only?

no they mostly make friends with pakistanis than afghans.

I have a friend (a girl from swat)... i asked her how come i don't see KP pashtoons here in bay area (california)... she said there are many many families but they don't like to identify themselves as pashtoon or mingle with afghans.

she told me about her own life that when she was little her mother had taught her and her siblings not to call themselves as pashtoons because pashtoon means "jahil" uneducated people. she said that we never spoke pashto at home, we spoke Urdu because that was a sign of being educated and modern unlike jahil pashtoons. she said they moved to karachi and completely blended in pakistani society... i asked her then how do you speak pashto so well.. she said well when we grew up we realized how much damage was done to us and our identity. my brothers and I decided to go back to swat for vacations and learn pashto... when i heard that i was very happy ...

anways so yeah we have many many afghan gatherings here, there is this hugeeeeeee mela thrown every year where more than 8 - 10 thousand afghans attend and i don't see KP pashtoons at all... or their stall or bazaar in that mela. they have so isolated themselves... i have lived in this place for 11 years almost and i have only seen people that identify themselves as Pakistani, not pashtoons.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

^ I agree

Afghanistan to me will have true meaning and value as a name when its the name for a united Pakhtunkhwa

[Feroza_Banu]

well I have met Tajiks who do not consider themselves as Afghans because they do not want to mingle or associate themselves with Pashtuns.

but still iam sure they love Afghanistan as dearly as pashtoons would...but that aside, racist and low people like you exist everywhere in every community... so i agree with you

Why do the Afghans on here always try to bring the case of Identity, There is enough people in Afghanistan who suffer from Identity loss including the Pashtuns there who are so Persianized that they learn Farsi as a their first language.

so lets see... the KP pashtoons are panjabized and the afghanistan pashtoons are persianized... so lets just conclude that majority of pashtoons on both side are beghairat according to you?

it isn't a pretty picture of pashtoons u are painting... my point was not to point finger at KP pashtoons. the topic is about pashtoons of afghanistan and pashtoons of KP's sense of community and relationship in the west. unless you are blind or on chars that u can't read?

I do not see why Afghans complain about our treatment in KP, Most of you guys ignore the treatment of Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Over 50 percent of your country speaks Dari, I thought Pashtuns are Majority?

off topic... please put that chars down!

I have met many Afghans who are supposed to be Pashtuns but can not even speak Pushto but instead prefer to speak in Dari.

repeat:
so lets see... the KP pashtoons are panjabized and the afghanistan pashtoons are persianized... so lets just conclude that majority of pashtoons on both side are beghairat according to you?

stay on topic

You can not say Pashtuns of KP do not mingle with Afghans, there are over 1 million Afghan Nationals in KP right now, mingling very nicely.

r u seriously blind? read what the topic is about...

There are Afghans such as you Mrs Banu who want us to accept Persian culture of Afghanistan, Afghanistan at the moment does not mean Pashtun at all, this is why Pashtuns opt and choose to be called Pakistanis, as Pakistani does not mean Punjabi or Sindhi but means all the ethnicities in Pakistan.

but but... didn't u just say in the beggining that u have met tajiks who dont like being called afghan then how can a country named afghanistan represent them?

Pashtuns of Afghanistan love their Tajiks brothers and sisters very dearly, you can see them on this forum pose as Nationalists when it comes to cursing Pakistan but when you speak against their Tajik brothers and sisters they become defensive and call you a ISI agent or a Punjabi.

I love my tajik, uzbak, and hazara watandaars... they are my people from my country... and you an ISI agent's nephew can't divide us. u are right with your statement.

oh and i don't have problem with panjabis, sindhis or baloch of pakistan either. I don't believe in blaming one for the other's mistake. everyone answers on their own behalf infront of God, when the day of judgement comes... there is no race to identify you, and no race above the other at that time.

Afghanistan is no longer a id of a Pashtun, Afghanistan means Hazara,Tajik,Uzbek,Turkmen and Pashtun, the same as Pakistan means Punjabi, Balochi, Sindhi and Pashtun.

please refer to above.

Mrs Banu, you would be the first to oppose Pashtun Unity based on Pashtuns, you just like the Pakistanis want us oppressed and mingled with Non Pashtuns.

Kind Regards

oh wait... didn't u say that pakistan actually represents pashtoons(pakistan represents sindhi, panjabi, baloch, pashtoons)... and nw u are saying u are opressed there...

OH SHUT UP!

this will be my last response to you... i feel low when i speak to you...laka girasara kraka me kezhi! ewww!

refrain from quotting me or responding to me. u r on my ignore list so u will be wasting ur time quite frankly.

[Ghorzang]

Nobody answered the above questions, why the discussion is restricted to marraiges only?

Basically, you would get a very similar answer.

Let me look at myself and our family. Me personally (and my family) are very open and to an extent very nationalist as well. However, we don't have any family relations with Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa - and there are more Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa than there are of Afghanistan in here. We have tried to start going to their houses, but somehow never had the chance to. There are certain traditional and custom barriers that keeps us alienated from each other. Now that is not very true when it comes to the youngsters like myself. However, it is not the case with all Pashtuns. There doesn't exist any kind of nationalism in a lot of our youngsters. For the Pashtuns of KP, we are still Afghanian (like the Khyber TV host would say - the one who was talking with Rahim Shah) and for the Pashtuns of Afghanistan, Pashtuns of KP are still Pakistanian.

Therefor, some kind of pashtun nationalism is needed in order to bring Lar aw Bar Pashtuns together.

[Wrayun]

Luffy,

The pakistani pashtuns there make family friends with punjabis, urduspeakers more often or with their afghan fellows?

Most Pakistani Pukhtoons make friends with other Pakistanis i.e. Punjaabis, Urdu speakers etc.
Most Afghani Pukhtoons make friends with other Afghanis i.e. Taajiks, Uzbeks etc.
The both make friends with Indians/Desi's when necessary.

In both communities, Afghani or Pakistani, Pukhtoonpals are mocked, and laughed at.
In both communities, Pukhto is the language of jahils, backwards, illiterates and "terrorists".
In both communities, parents prefer to teach their children either Urdu or Dari over Pukhto. Or are too lazy to be bothered by it. Though English will dominate all 3 languages.

In social events pakistani pashtuns participate in afghan events or pakistani?

Majority of Pakistani Pukhtoons participate in Pakistani events, just like majority of Afghan Pukhtoons participate in Afghani events. Both equally participate in Muslim events.

But within these two communities there are certain Pukhtoonpals, who don't interact with Punjaabis, Taajiks etc. and only prefer other Pukhtoon friends/families. They usually try to reach out to each other. They try to organize events, or gatherings, that are Pukhtoon centric. These types visit Afghani events or Pakistani events when there is a Pukhtoon performer, or artist. For example if Rahim Shah is performing, Afghan Pukhtoonpals will come to Paki events just for that. If Mangal/Neghma is performing, Paki Pukhtoonpals will visit such a Afghani event.

But such Pukhtoons are rare, and laughed at by the majority within their own "national" communities. Pukhtoon cultural awareness and preservation is a taboo for many. Whether Paki PATHANS or Afghani BASHTON asts, they hate on their own language, people, culture and heritage. If there is a Pukhto song, they'll laugh and mock it. If there is a Pukhto programme, they'll laugh and mock. They'll always try to speak Urdu/Dari in front of you to sound more sophisticated and posh. They always pretend to be Pukhtoon parasts, but spare no chance of mocking the Pukhtoon across the border. They get along fine with even Punjaabis and Taajiks from the other side, but will not spare a chance to hate on their own kin. The type that ignore lack of Pukhtoonyat in their own communities but are quick to point it out in others. Ego? Pride? Retardation? Chinjay? Probably.

To be frank, majority of Pukhtoons, from both countries, suffer from dire complexes when it comes to their own ethnic identity. The only thing they are proud of when it comes to their ethnicity is their fair skin color and past MIGHTY HISTORY. Which they pass on to their children, clearly evident on these forums. That's about it.

On Pak independence day and chand raat you can catch PATHANS and their families men/women mixing with other Desi's, including Hindus and Sikhs from India, doing BANGRA, dancing to Ibrar-ul-Haq.

On the other hand BASHTON asts, can be caught doing shaky mast dances on nowroz with Taajiks and Persians/Iranians....shaking their shoulders and chests doing the boom boom stuff.



So yeah, the future looks absolutely great.