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Pashto can never be properly romanized and there is no "standard" spoken form of it.

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  • Pashto can never be properly romanized and there is no "standard" spoken form of it.

    First of all, to idiots who believe in some mythical "Central" Pashto variety used in Afghan media, there is no such thing. It is called Eastern Afghan Pashto and it is not the standard (the only standard we have is the literary [written NOT spoken]). It is used in media because most TV channels and radios operate from Kabul (and its surroundings) and this is the de-facto dialect spoken in Kabul. If you were to watch the local channels in Kandahar and Zabul, for example, you wouldn't hear this dialect as it would be replaced by the variant that is spoken locally.

    Whoever wrote this Wikipedia article is stupid and biased because he/she probably speaks this dialect or is from Kabul/Eastern Afghanistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Pashto_language

    On another note, Khangul and co., stop trying to use the Wakhi alphabet for Pashto, it does not work. Wakhi has more phonemes than any one variety of Pashto because in Pashto, pronounciation changes depending on the dialect/accent of the speaker. Interestingly enough, if we take a look at all the different varieties of Pashto, you will find that with the exception of two sounds (th and dh) found in Wakhi, all other sounds are also present different Pashto dialects.

    And finally, to all those who have this pipe-dream of a Latin based Pashto alphabet, forget it. You are not smarter than me (I am only 18 but I have K.O.S. aka Overstanding) and I have spent 2-3 years in vain trying to develope one. The earliest efforts were based on European languages such as Albanian. These were found to be very confusing for the average English-literate Pashtun. Czech, Polish and other Slavic languages (and even Vietnamese) that use special characters and diagraph-heavy orthographies are a better bet, but still can't represent all Pashto phonemes without leaning too much towards any one dialect.

    For my own purposes, I use a special Italian-based alphabet which I invented, but as I said before, it relies too much on letter combinations such as "zgi" and "sci" for ژ and ش. which is confusing to others.

    There is no point in using non-standard Latin letters that are not commonly found on English-based keyboards, and hence they cannot be easily typed. Pashtuns have enough problems as it is.

    In conclusion, our current script is perfect and there is no need to change anything. You "linguists" should work on something more productive, like getting Google Translator to interpret Pashto.


    By the way, there are only two varieties of Pashto in Afghanistan,
    Eastern Afghan Pashto and Western Afghan Pashto.

    With the exception of the Karlani dialects of Wardak and Khost/Paktia which exhibit vowel change and obscure vocabulary, all other "dialects" fall under these two categories. Note that the "mixed" dialect of Paktika is also excluded.

    P.E.A.C.E.

    Killzai.
    Last edited by Old School Killiwal; 03-29-2012, 06:51 AM. Reason: Addition.
    "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

  • #2
    NOTE TO MODS:
    Please do not merge the two threads together.

    I made this thread because I can't stand the other one which is full of propaganda, neo-imperialism (worshipping the White man & his alphabet) and stupidity, as well as a general lack of knowledge among these self-proclaimed "linguists".

    Also, uncivilized commoners such as Soldat_Amir and Malakand Ghar aka Toramana who advocate a Latin alphabet out of sheer hatred for Arabs and Islamic influence while knowing nothing about their own* language it its phonology should not be included in any such discussions.

    *Personally, I believe they are not Pashtuns, but imposters.
    Last edited by Old School Killiwal; 03-29-2012, 07:02 AM.
    "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Old School Killiwal View Post
      the only standard we have is the literary [written NOT spoken].
      Not only spoken Pashto doesn't have standard form. Written Pashto doesn't have linguistic norm either.
      دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
        Not only spoken Pashto doesn't have standard form. Written Pashto doesn't have linguistic norm either.
        Yes, depending on the country or even dialect of the writer, it an change.

        A person from Kandahar would spell the Pashto word for sound as "ژغ" and someone from Peshawar would spell it "غږ" because one pronounces it "zhagh" an the ohter says "ghag".
        "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

        Comment


        • #5
          Pashto language in its diversity is a very fascinating language. But sometimes it's so difficult. When I learn I have to remember all forms and meanings... Like the pronoun ئې and يې - first form is old, second - new one, or other examples: معنی in old form and مانا and in new form, طمعه - old and تمه - new form... endless list.
          It also proves that Pashto is a living language which changes itself with time.
          دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

          Comment


          • #6
            Everyone who speaks Pashto, come here.

            In light of the other 2 threads concerning Pashto, I had an idea.

            Basically, let us see how different PF members transcript/spell Pashto words using the Latin alphabet. There are numerous possible variations and none are wrong, this is just to compare.

            Okay, let us start. I will write a sentence, you convert it to your spelling/accent/dialect/orthography.


            Example sentence:

            زما نوم حکیم دئ، زه ده پکتیکا یم
            (Literary standard)

            دي ما نوم حکیم دئ، زه دي پکتیکا یم
            (Pashto script, showing dialect)

            Transcription based on dialect:

            1) De-maa num Hakim daii, za di Paktikaa yam. (K.R.I.P.S - Basic variant without diatrics)

            2) De-má num Hakim dёi, zё di Paktiká yёm.
            (K.R.I.P.S - Level II with diatrics in place of double vowels)


            K.R.I.P.S = Killzai Rafael's International Pashto Script.
            It has not been perfected yet as I cannot really be bothered.

            So, depending on accessibility of diatrics, I would use one of the above if writing Pashto when the Arabic script is unavailable. For my own aesthetical purposes, I also use other alphabets such as one derived form Italian, Vietnamese and Serbo-Croatian, but it would be too confusing for you to witness at this point without truly knowing who I am.


            OK. Now let us use a more colourful sentence:

            چې ښکلی نوم دې یادوم، ژړا راځینه
            (Literary standard)


            څي ښکلی نوم دي یادوم، ژړا راځینه
            (Pashto script, showing dialect)


            1) Si* shkwalai num di yaadawam, zharraa* raadzina.

            (K.R.I.P.S - Basic variant without diatrics, reflecting pronounciation)


            2) Si xkwёlai* num di yádawёm, zharrá rádzina.

            (K.R.I.P.S - Level II with diatrics in place of double vowels and "x" in place of "sh" for unification of Pashto)

            * چې/چه/چی is pronounced "si/se" in the areas surrounding Paktika. Though spelled with "څ" here, it usually is not pronounced "tse" or "tsi" as it would appear to be.

            * The "ړ" of Pashto can be rendered as either "rr" or "rh" in K.R.I.P.S.

            * "X" can be subsituted with the diagraph "ch" as this is used in various languages for both sounds represented using the Pashto "ښ", in which case "x" would then be used for "خ" and "tsh" or "ci/ce" (c with a cedille as used in Turkish is also a possible choice).

            Another sentence:


            دغه ږمونځ په څو دئ؟

            (Literary standard)


            دغه ږومنځ په څو دئ؟

            (Pashto script, showing dialect)


            1) Dagha zhomandz po tso daii?

            (K.R.I.P.S - Basic variant without diatrics, reflecting pronounciation)


            2) Dagha jomandz* po tso dёi?

            (K.R.I.P.S - Level II with diatrics in place of double vowels and "j" in place of "zh" for unification of Pashto based on Western and Southern dialects in contrast to the more commonly used Eastern phonetic system)

            * "J" can be subsituted with the diagraphs "zj" and "gj" as there is no single Latin letter that can take the place of the Pashto "ږ". In the case of using "j" for "ږ", the digraphs "dzh", "dj" and even "gi/ge" can be used for the phoneme "ج".

            Convert these sentences to your spelling and/or dialect and add more.

            Merci.




            "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
              Pashto language in its diversity is a very fascinating language. But sometimes it's so difficult. When I learn I have to remember all forms and meanings... Like the pronoun ئې and يې - first form is old, second - new one, or other examples: معنی in old form and مانا and in new form, طمعه - old and تمه - new form... endless list.
              It also proves that Pashto is a living language which changes itself with time.
              In all honesty, I am not fluent in Pashto myself and my grammar is pretty much hopeless but I have a lot of knowledge concerning various dialects and phonology.
              I could easily learn Pashto but I have other priorites right now.
              "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

              Comment


              • #8
                .
                "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

                Comment


                • #9
                  zar zan zameen
                  Increase the peace, don't wreck the party
                  And **** da jol up for everybody
                  Ek's a laarney, jy's a gam
                  Want jy lam innie mang, met jou slang in a man

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mir mahsud View Post
                    zar zan zameen
                    Da cha ranga pashto yaye? Da Farsi du, werkiya.
                    "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am not a native Pashto speaker so I can't comment diferences in pronunciation.
                      But I'd like to say something about the first sentence زما نوم حکیم دئ، زه ده پکتیکا یم

                      I learnt that the verbal form دئ (the one with hamza) is used only for 2nd person plural form. For 3rd person singular form it should be دی . Plus, both forms have different pronunciation.
                      Second part of the sentence زه ده پکتیکا یم in my Pashto should be like this:زه د پکتیکا یم
                      دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
                        I am not a native Pashto speaker so I can't comment diferences in pronunciation.
                        But I'd like to say something about the first sentence زما نوم حکیم دئ، زه ده پکتیکا یم

                        I learnt that the verbal form دئ (the one with hamza) is used only for 2nd person plural form. For 3rd person singular form it should be دی . Plus, both forms have different pronunciation.
                        Second part of the sentence زه ده پکتیکا یم in my Pashto should be like this:زه د پکتیکا یم
                        First part:

                        We pronounce it as "daii" or "dëi", in which more stress is placed on the ending. So we spell it using the female marker ئ rather than the masculine ی. The "ai" in ی is more heavy on the "a" and has a slight glide of "i/y"at the end, while the ئ and ۍ are the exact opposite. So in my dialect, it would be wrong to use دی in this context.

                        Secondly, you are right. That was a typo.
                        "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Old School Killiwal View Post
                          NOTE TO MODS:
                          Please do not merge the two threads together.

                          I made this thread because I can't stand the other one which is full of propaganda, neo-imperialism (worshipping the White man & his alphabet) and stupidity, as well as a general lack of knowledge among these self-proclaimed "linguists".

                          Also, uncivilized commoners such as Soldat_Amir and Malakand Ghar aka Toramana who advocate a Latin alphabet out of sheer hatred for Arabs and Islamic influence while knowing nothing about their own* language it its phonology should not be included in any such discussions.

                          *Personally, I believe they are not Pashtuns, but imposters.
                          My tired blurry eyes missed this request, so apologies.

                          That said, I agree with the first post in this thread.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree with the brother,those who want to romanize it,should leave pashto completely
                            High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tor_khan View Post
                              My tired blurry eyes missed this request, so apologies.

                              That said, I agree with the first post in this thread.
                              I meant this and the "split discussion should pashto be romanized..." thread.
                              "You have the watches, we have the time.” – a Talib.

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