Islam is just a religion like any other religion

[Roshina]

Could you kindly find it for me? I don't think we discussed it, but I may have forgotten. Thank you, in advance.

Unfortunately, the "Understanding Islam Better" thread has too many pages for me to look for it now. But I remember discussing it very well. It came after HinduPashtun asked a question, and I gave an answer that did not seem suitable to you and so we had to discuss it to make a clearer sense of it.

But, yeah, I've no intentions of repeating it since it's already there and would require looking for it, which I don't have time for at all right now

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

To refresh my memory, could you kindly jot a few lines. Sorry for the trouble.

[Roshina]

No, 'cause it wouldn't be a few lines . . . buuut to me, ALL religions are equal, which means that none is/are above or below any others. They're not the same (as Osho has stated), as all have their own practices and beliefs, but they're all equal and all should this be equally respected and tolerated.

It's not just religions that I see as equals of each other: I see sects of religions as equals of each other as well (so long as none promote violence and force of any sort, through any means).

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Qrratagai if you believe that all religions are equals and you are a Muslim, then you have a contradiction in your belief. Would you not say so?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If I recall correctly, we never discussed Hinduism vs Islam. You managed to change the subject or did not respond at all.

Qrratagai, I am still not clear as to where you really stand with respect to Islam. Your views don't stem from the Quran. I would like us to take this opportunity to discuss this very topic: your views on Islam.

Please, don't ignore my request this time. I would like for us to discuss your stance on Islam.

As you know, I love to discuss challenging topics. I just want to know for myself what you really believe in and why. I get really confused by the answers you posts, at times.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

@ MWMN, no, I would not say that I'm contradicting myself at all. I'm a Muslim, and I believe that all religions are equal. We need to understand that "equality" does not mean "being the same." I once gave an example of this ... when talking about how people claim that women and men shouldn't have equal rights because they're not the same.

How could all religions be equal. Please clarify further. Between a man and a woman it is clear how to justify "equality," there two different sexes involved. However, how do you define "equality" between two religions.

The example is very simple and goes like:

2+5 = 7.

Are both sides of the equation "the same"? No, they're not.

Are both sides of the equation "equal"? Yes, they are, and it's indicated by the equal sign.

You contradicted yourself by the end.

Similarly, ALL religions are equal; none are better or worse than others. If we are not allowed to judge Islam by the practices of the Muslims, we have no right to judge OTHER religions by the practices of others, either

You don't judge the religion by its people. You judge the religion based on its teachings. By saying they are equal you are saying that Islam is as good as the religion of Hinduism. By which, would bring another question: then why are you a Muslim, why have you "chosen" one over the other, if they are both equal?

So, yeah, I don't see what's so contradictory about saying that my religion is just as good as all other religions. If it's believed that MY religion has flaws and my argument is that "NO! That's not the religion's fault; it's all misinterpretations," then I need to understand -- as a human -- that there's nothing INHERENTLY bad in any religion; it's all what people (the followers of those religions) make them to be.

Are saying that Islam, itself, i.e. the Quran, has not claimed to be superior over all of the other religions and that it is the fault of those who have "interpreted" it? Is this what you are saying?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Na, we discussed it for a long, long time. You should look in the earlier pages of the "Understanding Islam Better" thread. It's certainly there.

And if you don't remember, that means you must not remember some of our other important discussions we've had! Which would actually HURT me, frankly speaking :O I mean, you know, we spend lots of time talking about it, so it'd be unpleasant to hear that they're not actually remembered . . . or taken seriously.



Not a problem at all. I'd love to discuss my views on Islam, along with evidence from the Quran and hadiths, but time at the moment does not permit me. I've to work on a thesis and have a research project to handle for the next few months. I'm also busy with applications for higher studies, and they're a lot of them . . . I need to get them done before school begins (exactly a month left for school to re-start) 'cause my schedule for the next year is packed, both semesters.

So I REALLY don't have time these days. I won't for the next several months, as you can tell. But when I do get a little free, I'll let you know... though I'm kinda writing on the side, and almost all of it has to do with Islam, so I can share whatever with you that I feel would be useful (and you individually; I can't share it with the public yet).

Besides, it's just a matter of a few years :D I'll be writing on Islam and my views on Islam (along with everything related to Pashtuns) for the rest of my life; it's gonna be my career, ka khairee! So just hang in there, and you'll get ALL your questions answered, wror gula I promise.

I usually have a good memory, I remember, that you skipped all of my questions.

Well, I see you on the forums all the time, so I don't think it would hurt for you to discuss what your views actually are.

First off, do you believe that Allah exists?

ps
are you in the process of finishing your undergrad?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Qrratagai, Afghanlady is 100% correct on the fact that she is saying that Islam worships God differently. You must concede this much and explain how it is that it is equal?

[Roshina]

^ I've already explained the word "equal" a couple of times. But here, one more time:

ALL religions are equal.

That means NO religion is better or worse than any other.

I explain that as well, quite in detail.

You don't understand this perspective, but that doesn't make it any less legitimate than the claim that one particular religion is better than all the others.

You also did not tell me HOW it's kufar to say that all religions are equal. Neither did you prove how it's contradictory to be a Muslim and believe (rather, KNOW for a fact) that all religions are equal.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Yes, you must believe in God, however, what I find in your belief, dearest sister, is that there are gaps.

For instance, which God do you believe in?


ps

May Allah give you success in your studies.

[Roshina]

@ MWMN: How many gods are there according to Islam? Does Islam not promote the concept of only ONE God? 'Cause I believe in that one God that Islam talks about and promotes the belief in and of. That all-hearing, all-knowing, all-understanding, all-powerful God that all Muslims (regardless of sects) believe in.

I'm one of those people who WILL support a certain belief system just because it needs to be supported even if I don't believe in it myself. I find it ignorant of anyone to assume that just because someone supports a certain belief, she/he must be a believer of those beliefs. For instance, I'll stand up for any religion and any sect that needs to be defended when it's being attacked by a group of fools who lack all understanding of that religion or sect. Only those who I consider "dumb" would actually think that the ONLY reason someone would support a certain group of people is if that person is FROM that group. No, I don't have to be FROM them to help them or stand up for them; I just have to respect and understand them. And I'd expect that when I need their help, they'd stand up with and for me as well.

So if I support or explain atheist beliefs or Hindu beliefs or some others that are not associated with Islam, one should not ASSUME that I must be an atheist or a Hindu or whatever else I stand up for to defend.

[Roshina]

Qrratugai where you good in Math? or was it your weak spot?(no offense, I just need to know to teach you how to use the word "Equal")

No offense taken at all, guley - 'cause Math was my strongest subject all throughout high school and college. It still is when I do take it. It's one of those subjects I used to take to bring up my GPA when it'd go down, lol. And I mean higher levels of math, not pre-calculus or trig or algebra, lol. Although my GPA is now almost perfect, I still WOULD willingly take a math class if it ever drops.

But, by the way, I didn't say they're *equal to each other*. I said they're equal. Simple as that. You're adding in the part "to each other" (by saying that Hinduism = religion = Islam = Christianity = etc.). Not only would that be very dumb and illiterate of me to say, it's also absolutely wrong -- and proven wrong, too. It can be proved wrong because everyone on earth knows that all religions are NOT the same, all religions are NOT equal to each other.

Nevertheless, I used a simple mathematical concept to explain the concept of equality. Did you get that? Because you seem to be one of those people who beleive that "equality" = "sameness" ... and I'm one of those who COMPLETELY disagree.

Now, guley, I never shy from admitting I've made a mistake when I do make it, and I, like any human, tend to make quite a few of them and quite often. However, this is not one of those times: I believe that ALL religions are equal, and they ALL deserve equal respect, equal attention, equal tolerance, and equal appreciation; none are above or below any others. There are absolutely no exceptions. You'd have to PROVE that there are exceptions, if you believe there are, and I mean prove it in a way that non-Muslims would be able to understand and agree with you on... 'cause when you PROVE something as correct or right, then no one can dare to disagree with it, since it'd become a fact then.

[Khan Gul]

^ I've already explained the word "equal" a couple of times. But here, one more time:

ALL religions are equal.

Khwarzey, if you mean by saying that "all religions are equal" because at certain point in time they originated from the same source, Allah, and later on its followers distorted its true message then I agree with you.
Also, if you mean that all religions in a certain way are equal that they all advocate morality and plays important role in restoring the broken wholeness of souls then I certainly agree with you.
If you think that all religions offer an emotional lightness of approach to all questions of life, a supreme common sense of feeling then I agree with you.
If you think that all religions fill its followers with promise, help them in identifying that organic coherence of the mind and give them direction then I also agree with you.
However, if you think that the belief system of all other religions is equal to the monotheism of Islam, then I disagree with you.

[Roshina]

Khwarzey, if you mean by saying that "all religions are equal" because at certain point in time they originated from the same source, Allah, and later on its followers distorted its true message then I agree with you.
Also, if you mean that all religions in a certain way are equal that they all advocate morality and plays important role in restoring the broken wholeness of souls then I certainly agree with you.
If you think that all religions offer an emotional lightness of approach to all questions of life, a supreme common sense of feeling then I agree with you.
If you think that all religions fill its followers with promise, help them in identifying that organic coherence of the mind and give them direction then I also agree with you.

YES!! That's all what I mean! Along with that all are equal in terms of ... deserving of equal respect, tolerance, appreciation, etc.

However, if you think that the belief system of all other religions is equal to the monotheism of Islam, then I disagree with you.

Absolutely not, since it's an incorrect statement that Islam and all other religions promote the same concept of monotheism or even of God. That's why I made sure to say (over and over, lol) that all religions are *not the same*, since their practices and beliefs are not the same.

All right. Good that someone out there got my point! Now, I can rest peacefully for a while, lol.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dearest sister, Qrratagai, then this is the flaw in your logic. Islam's monotheistic teachings is the base of Islam. This alone will crush any idea that Hinduism and Islam are equal or have "equality."

Any religion or "ethics" teaches morality. However, the sole purpose for the coming of any new religion was to teach and revive monotheism. Islam, the final teaching and has preserved the monotheist teaching PERFECTLY. Now to say that is fine to be a Hindu for it has "equality" to Islam is TOTALLY erroneous.

Therefore, Islam and Hinduism might have commonalities in that they both have moral teachings, however, based on the sole way to find God is to know His Oneness, this alone stands in the way of Hinduism to ever be "equal" to Islam.

Hence, to say that it is okay to be a Hindu is wrong.