Islam is just a religion like any other religion

[Badlun]

I think we had enough discussion on this issue. Islam is a religion. I admit. I aslo admit that Allah is one and Muhammad is his final prophet.Having said I stress that Islam is not a complete system which gives full guidance for politics, culture, society, economy, science , technology, philosophy, social sciences, natural sciences etc. Islam gives full and excellent guidance for beliefs, worship and morality but nothing beyond that.Zakat being a charity is a moral concept not ab economic ssytem. Consultation or shura is a moral advice but not a political system.

For politics we can have democracy, for ecomocs capitalism, for society and culture Pashtunwali and then all sciences and technologies.If we understand this simple paradgm then Islam will remain as a religion and we will become a modern developed nation. This is the moddle way beween atheism and the system of Taliban or wahabi obscurantists.

[Alchemist]

^ You believe that Islam is a religion but you obviously don't practice it...

[ScimitarXEdge]

I have a succint response to this, just wait a few days, little busy for involved replies.

[Ahmad Walid]

I remember Dr.Zakir Naik once saying that the difference between Christianity and Islam is that to believe in Christianity you have to have faith but to believe in Islam you have to have faith and Islam proves itself by reason and science. Islam proves itself by scientific ayats ( I point this out because this is how we find facts in present-day university studies).

The problem with your post I am having is your title, "Islam is just a religion like any other religion," if that was true then the above statement would not be true, if the above statement is not true then why don't I join Christianity and drink beer on the couch? I mean why would you suffer under Islam when it is like any other religion and you could be having so much fun?

I like your topic and believe you need to look more into Islam, not saying that I am an expert but I have written papers on people who make claims like these and usually there is alot of misconceptions or they overlook important details.

[sulimannuran]

Religion is a clear invention of human mind. Islam plagiarized a lot of so called "scientific miracles" from Aristotle, the Sumerians, the ancient Egyptians, ancient Greek medicine and philosophies which were also borrowed from translated works from China and India. Islam was not alone in this, others lead the same way. The Quran has nothing new or special that was not know at the time, everything that it mentions was known at the time by at least people who read Greek philosophy, etc, and could read and write. Quran is a book of its own time describing the beliefs of its time and the ones preceding it, nothing else. Aristotle was a thinker, a good one, who was right about certain things and wrong about others, but that is to his credit because he wanted to figure things out and after all he was a man of his own times with limited resources available. Aristotle deserves a lot of credit for at least thinking critically and wanting to figure things out. Human mind is always evolving and I think morals can be based on experiences not superstition. Al Razi was great at pointing and exposing the true nature of religion and prophecies.

[کیش]

^^^^

Shut your uncle-Tom ass up. Those thinkers were most likely Prophets of Islam, if you knew anything about Islam you would know that. Since the Prophet (PBUN) mentioned that they were close to 124,000 prophets send to humanity.

[graveyardofempires]

why the hell would you call yourself sulaiman than?

btw all those ancient things you mentioned also had religion of Islam somewhere around.

[emkhan]

All abrahamic religions are the same thing, an egomaniac god and we, his slaves.

Astaghfirullah taubah okra.
Do you know what are you saying ?

[emkhan]

No I am typing in my sleep.

You proved you are a secular kafir.
That is enough for not arguing with you on religion or Pukhtunwali any more..

[randolph85]

this is pretty much the worst thread in pf forum history.

[Ahmad Walid]

Religion is a clear invention of human mind. Islam plagiarized a lot of so called "scientific miracles" from Aristotle, the Sumerians, the ancient Egyptians, ancient Greek medicine and philosophies which were also borrowed from translated works from China and India. Islam was not alone in this, others lead the same way. The Quran has nothing new or special that was not know at the time, everything that it mentions was known at the time by at least people who read Greek philosophy, etc, and could read and write. Quran is a book of its own time describing the beliefs of its time and the ones preceding it, nothing else. Aristotle was a thinker, a good one, who was right about certain things and wrong about others, but that is to his credit because he wanted to figure things out and after all he was a man of his own times with limited resources available. Aristotle deserves a lot of credit for at least thinking critically and wanting to figure things out. Human mind is always evolving and I think morals can be based on experiences not superstition. Al Razi was great at pointing and exposing the true nature of religion and prophecies.

"Quran is a book of its own time" -Yet millions of people (doctors, professors, teachers, lay people, etc..) still believe in this book. This book has withstood the test of time and yet you say it was a book of its own time. The scientific ayats of this book were spoken of by many scientists (just look around the pashtunforums videos you will see) non-muslim and muslim.

"Quran is a book of its own time describing the beliefs of its time and the ones preceding it." Yet, it tells about the future as well. Look around in Pashtun forum videos for the film on "Signs of the End Times" by Harun Yahya. Or if you have the time and ability read the Al-Quran. Look at the Hadiths and see what they reported about the future.

The biggest joke in your statement, is that you actually think that the Quran is just a mix or compilation of other ideas/books. What great university/intellectual community/people have you heard off during the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that had the ability to write something like the Quran. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) could neither read nor write. Perhaps you haven't heard what the Quran challenges you to do:

And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. (2:23) (Translation of Al Quran by Yusuf Ali).

Nobody can accept the challenge. If you want to know what happens when human beings try to write a religious book, then look no further to the Bible, Torah, vedas... Although some of the Bible and Torah is what the Prophets and God had told us but how come these books cannot stand next to the Al Quran. The answer is simple, "They have been changed by human beings." These books have been ripped apart for its content so much that nobody really cares about them anymore. Most Christians ignore the Old Testament, some will believe just parts of the New Testament. Is this the case with the Al Quran? Now think hard, can you think of any discrepancies or wrongs in the Al Quran?


You said yourself that Aristotle was wrong, why wasn't the Quran wrong in predicting 1400 years ago that the Universe was expanding. This was proven correct by Hubble (founder of the Hubble telescope). Did Quran just guess correct on this one? Quran mentions that everything in nature came from water? Nowadays in biology we commend this to the scientists of the 19th century, but Al Quran spoke of this 1200-1300 years earlier.

There are many more scientific ayats that I just don't have the time to write to you about.

You say Islam plagiarized a lot of scientific miracles from Aristotle. Lol, way to show you ignorance. Aristotle and your Egyptians (Ptolemy) believed in the geocentric model in which everything in the universe revolved around the earth. Maybe you are getting religions confused or you have fallen into the common trap that many ignorant people fall into, the trap of putting all religions in the same category. Muslims should know about this very well, personally, I know about this a lot in my University. Islam, Judaism, Christianity may share some beliefs but they are not alike or the same. There are fundamental differences!

Christianity did not have an answer (well actually they found an answer) for what was the center of our universe. The Church decided to go with what your friend Aristotle said, and I guess you know where that made the Church and Christianity end up.

Do you know that the Quran does not speak about the Geocentric model!

Alright, this is all I can write tonight. I am busy with school, haven't been on the forums for 4 months just got on tonight for you because I see everyday in my University people just like you living in ignorance. I feel sorry for people in my university because they live for this world and fail to learn or seek the truth (Islam). Hopefully, you won't be one of them.

I am sorry if I make any mistakes pertaining to the Quranic verses or said anything wrong pertaining to Islam.

[Ahmad Walid]

^^^^

Shut your uncle-Tom ass up. Those thinkers were most likely Prophets of Islam, if you knew anything about Islam you would know that. Since the Prophet (PBUN) mentioned that they were close to 124,000 prophets send to humanity.

Brother, it is not correct to say this. We know of only the Prophets mentioned in the Quran and that is it. Yes it is true that Prophets were sent to every nation and tribe, but we don't who was sent for whom other then those mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths. If you say that this person might have been or was a prophet, people like in the post above will use it against you. Let me elaborate:

Aristotle believed in the geocentric model which was that everything revolved around the Earth, which has been clearly proven incorrect.

Now you and I both know that Prophets would not mislead people, they are sent to Earth to lead people on the straight path and tell them truths not lies(mistakes).

Aristotle was just a human being like you and me, he just had a lot more time then you and me to sit around (lol).

Further, another so called great thinker/philosopher was Nietzsche, who believed that God did not exist. He was also a strong alcoholic and lived a sad life.

So, in short we don't know of any Prophets specifically other than those mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths. We shouldn't place the title Prophet on just anybody we want.

[Ahmad Walid]

All abrahamic religions are the same thing, an egomaniac god and we, his slaves.

Lol. I wanted to be sure that I knew what the word "egomaniac" meant, so here is the definition from wikipedia.


"Egomania is an obsessive preoccupation with one's self[1] and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation.[2] Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac.' (Wikipedia)

You mention all Abrahamic religions are like this. If this was true then why were people like the Prophets sent for us? Why did they tell us to believe in one God? Why did they suffer for us? Why did they cry for us?

You mention we are the slaves of God. You are right we should be because he created us. But where has God treated you like a slave? In fact, did he not show you mercy a number of times by you sending you the book (Al Quran), Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Does he not show you mercy when he warns you to believe in me and do what I say so that you don't end up in hell?

Egomania seems more characteristic of the Roman and Greek gods don't you think? Zeus did that to me, Ares killed that, Hades took the Earths daughter and that is why we have winter and fall and all that nonsense. These are egomaniac gods. They play with human beings.

Do you deny what God has given you?

Maybe you don't understand what God is.

We don't know what GOD looks like, is like, we know he exists. We also know from Al Quran that God is nothing like in this world. So, obviously he cannot be an egomaniac because that seems to be a human condition.

I know you will probably say next, prove God exists and other nonsense atheist comments. I would explain it to you but I am very busy right now. If you want to know what God is like read the verse from Al Quran below:

Say: He is Allah the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)(Surah 112 Quran, translation by Yusuf Ali.)

[Soldat_Amir]

You proved you are a secular kafir.
That is enough for not arguing with you on religion or Pukhtunwali any more..

Why do Pakis call others as Secular Kaffirs? does your fingers feel excited from saying such things as most of the time your holding your begging bowl to Kuffur countries to save you from drought, floods, instability etc.

Wasnt your holy highness Jinnah a secular pork and whisky drinking Ismaili Kaffir too?

How can you associate Pukhtunwali with Islam, Pukhtunwali as a system outdates Islam by years, even centuries.

Anyway, I dont want to prolong this diccussion and hurt peoples feelings.

In regards to the topic

Islam,Judaism, Christianity and Greek Mythology have many things in common. I dont want to list them because some people may complain or get upset.

I agree, Islam is a Ambrahmic religion, originates from the same place Christianity and Judaism came into being.

[Alchemist]

Just to clarify something for those who like to talk on that which they know very little.

At the time of Ibrahim (alihi salam) all of humanity was engrossed into polytheism. He single handedly reintroduced monotheism and in his day what he preached was revolutionary. Monotheism has had a profound impact on the psychology and history of humanity. Its implications and influence would take up the space of books upon books far more than this petty forum can handle as a discourse.

This is the main reason why Ibrahim (alihi salam) has had such a high status with Allah and why his prayers were answered... as he had prayed that his ummah would flourish across the earth and that prophets would arise from his lineage to guide the people aright. For some of you know-little atheists to repeatedly assert this well known and accepted fact is to show how ignorant you are.
That one man and his progeny was able to revolutionize the world to such an extent, without throwing a single blow, over thousands of years should indicate to you how profound monotheism is. When you know almost nothing of the mythologies of polytheists but constantly try to define your morality by contrasting against scripture. If any of you had any sense of right then you would ascribe to a book of your own...but you have none. Just some cliched responses and half baked arguments that you don't even understand your self.


Rather what I am astonished by is the fact that you hate and detest to serve your Lord and Maker who has not compelled you to do so, but willfully and obediantly serve a system that oppresses you and makes a slave of you mentally and physically....the only escape for which you have is here. Pathetic.