Discussion about Rumi (Split)

[شمله ور خراساني]

Before homosexuality in the Arab-Islamic world, 1500-1800:

Khaled El-Rouayheb

Attitudes toward homosexuality in the pre-modern Arab-Islamic world are commonly depicted as schizophrenic. On the one hand, Arabic love poetry, biographical works, and bawdy satires suggest that homosexuality was a visible and tolerated part of Arab-Islamic elite culture before the nineteenth century. On the other hand, Islam supposedly considers homosexuality an abomination and prescribes severe punishment for it. In Before Homosexuality in the Arab-Islamic World, 1500-1800, Khaled El-Rouayheb shows that this apparent paradox is based on the anachronistic assumption that homosexuality is a timeless, self-evident fact to which a particular culture reacts with some degree of tolerance or intolerance. Drawing on poetry, belles lettres, biographical literature, medicine, physiognomy, dream interpretation, and Islamic legal, mystical, and homiletic texts, he shows that the culture of the period lacked the concept of homosexuality. Instead, paramount importance was given to distinctions that are not captured by that term-between active and passive sexual roles, between passionate infatuation and lust, and between penetrative and nonpenetrative intercourse.

The content of this book is to explicit to quote.

[شمله ور خراساني]

[Son of Mountains]

I smell a terror of Al-dawah Mr Ameer Hamza (May God curse him) from this man Sangar......My excuse to use these words, but i m helpless, as i have no other words.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar he has contibuted to our rich Afghan history.

Iranians try to claim him as their own so we should be glad we have him for our own

he didn't even live in the modern day afghanistan. he lived all his life in turkey.

and who cares what he contributed to whom. He promoted the blasphamous concepts of his master Ibn Arabi by preaching wahdatul wujood. And he is the founding father of homosexual Sufism.

We should be ashamed that suchg a nasty person is claimed as "one of us".

[Roshina]

Sangar, do you not note how they are INTERPRETING Rumi's texts in their articles? I mean, Shams al-Din is called "his [Rumi's] great love" and parentheses are used to "interpret" certain phrases or define certain terms used by Rumi.

So, what's missing is Rumi's actual verses, actual poems in which he shows that he's a homosexual. Why -- and I mean, really, WHY -- should I or anyone else have to agree with what one group of Rumi's interpreters have to say about Rumi's poetry? Do I not have the power to read it for myself and determine it myself? Sure, sometimes we need to read many, many interpretations of great works like Rumi's to get a more profound understanding of their works, but it does not mean that we should agree with what they've said necessarily.

And so what that there are books about Sufism and bacha-bazi written by certain folks? Who cares? Homosexuals come in ALL sects, ALL races, ALL people and it's absolutely silly to conclude that a person's practice or belief of her/his religion has something to do with her/his sexuality. C'mon now.

Also, you said that I said that you lack the intellect to interpret Rumi's poetry. First, that's completely untrue; I've never said that. I said that anyone who thinks Rumi was a homosexual hasn't actually understood his poems -- or, I add now, hasn't read them from different viewpoints. Second, if you agree that you lack the intellect to interpret his poetry, then how/why did you come to the conclusion that Rumi was gay?

And I'm still waiting for you to post Rumi's poems that suggest that he was whatever you have been fooled into believing he was. His poems are available ALL over the net, so it shouldn't be a hassle finding them. I'm not interested in what OTHER PEOPLE think of Rumi or his poetry or his sexuality; I'm interested in how YOU came to that conclusion using Rumi's own words.

[شمله ور خراساني]

NO.

[Roshina]

^ k. Then I assume you haven't actually read Rumi yourself but are only being fooled by those you think are the only possible interpreters of Rumi's poetry.

That's fine. But next time, you wanna be sure you know what you're talking about before you talk about a poet's work without actually having read any of it, or without being able to support your claims using the original words of the poet.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Sangar Jana, are you going on this rampage because people don't repect Muhammad bin Abdul Wahaab?

End of the day, dearest and beloved brother, you are entitled to your opinion. However, once you have expressed it you should leave the subject alone.

Perhaps, in your belief, no one but yourself is correct. However, others will think the same about themselves. Therefore, it is best that you learn how to respect people and their opinions.

Just a nasihah from your older brother.

[Feroza_Banu]

LOL!...... i never knew i will live up to a day when someone will call Rumi a homosexual! ... thanks to PF i did!

hey u guys don't even have to wait till judgement day to be judged... u can consult sangar and he will tell u right here if u are a muslim, kafir, pious, unpious, janati, dozakhi, homosexual, heterosexual... and so forth and so on...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I feel sad, everything Islamic is being torn to pieces.

Sangar, if you only knew what you are doing.

You might be sincere, but you are a sincere jahil. Please, don't crucify everything.

[شمله ور خراساني]

qadiani is concerned about Islam. The irony.

[Roshina]

I feel sad, everything Islamic is being torn to pieces.

Sangar, if you only knew what you are doing.

You might be sincere, but you are a sincere jahil. Please, don't crucify everything.

Don't feel sad, MWMN. Sangar tends to be the only one with such an extremist (almost always baseless) point of view in almost all threads that have to do with Islam, and it's refreshing to see that often, there's not much support for him and he can't support his own claims either.

[شمله ور خراساني]

there's not much support for him and he can't support his own claims either.

Oh yes. It is very saddening. My life is useless. Nobody supports me on PF

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Don't feel sad, MWMN. Sangar tends to be the only one with such an extremist (almost always baseless) point of view in almost all threads that have to do with Islam, and it's refreshing to see that often, there's not much support for him and he can't support his own claims either.

Humourously, he labels me as a kafir yet his own sources are kafir...oh the irony and the hypocrisy.

[Roshina]

Oh yes. It is very saddening. My life is useless. Nobody supports me on PF

Don't worry - I will share the pain with you. You are not alone, My Brother!