Discussion about Rumi (Split)

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Malgariya, what is wrong with being a homosexual?

Ianus Da Bakhtar, do you remember the Colonel from American Beauty?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^You bring a very good point, and to add to your point, we have Muslims, forget about Westerners, who disagree with the Prophet (saw)'s many wives including one who was very young.

So, if Sangar, is saying that he knows of people from the East who have written about Rumi (ra) being gay (God forbid), then he also has to reject the Prophet (saw)'s many marriages, because A LOT of people are not fine with his (saw) many wives from among the Muslims.

This is what happens when you don't educate yourself. You will end up forming a logical fallacy and that fallacy will end up biting you in the behind.

[Son of Mountains]

common sense doesn't seem so common here.

This is really not common in Wahabis, the products of Queen Victoria, she wanted to create hinderence in fast spreading religion, Islam due to Awliyas, so she brought Abdul Wahab, he has written in his book....lol

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

This is really not common in Wahabis, the products of Queen Victoria, she wanted to create hinderence in fast spreading religion, Islam due to Awliyas, so she brought Abdul Wahab, he has written in his book....lol

Where did you get this info from?

[شمله ور خراساني]

iddle Eastern Literature: Persian


Over a period of two millennia, sodomysodomy has been by turns condemned and celebrated in Persian literature.
Iran, or Persia, possesses a religious literature reaching back to the second millennium B.C.E. The Avesta, or the holy book of the Zoroastrians, is written in an old Iranian language related to Farsi, or modern Persian. The greater part of the Avesta, including hymns to deities (the Yashts), some of epic dimensions, and a corpus of religious rules and regulations (Videvdad), was composed in the first millennium B.C.E.
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During the first millennium of our era until well into the Islamic period (from 651 in Iran), a large body of indigenous literature, mostly on religious subjects, was added to the earlier compilations.
Homosexuality in Zoroastrianism
According to Zoroastrianism, the religion allegedly founded by Zarathustra, the universe is divided into two warring camps, those of the Good and Evil Spirits. Homosexuality is assigned to the latter. Indeed, the Evil Spirit instituted it during the early history of the universe by performing sodomy on himself to create "demons, lies, and other abortions."
In the Avesta, homosexuality is mentioned only a few times, but it is literally demonized. For example, in the Videvdad, both the active and passive partners in sodomy are described as demons, demon worshippers, and incubi and succubi of demons.
The punishment for a man who is sodomized against his will is specified as 800 strokes of the horse whip, which is the same punishment for killing a sheepdog; but if he commits sodomy willingly his sin is inexpiable. In another text, sodomites are said to be the only offenders who can be executed without the permission of high-priests or kings.
The Book of Arda Wiraz
Somewhat reminiscent of Dante's Divine Comedy, The Book of Arda Wiraz, written in the ninth century C.E., describes a journey into the afterlife by the soul of Arda Wiraz, who is shown the rewards and punishments of men and women in hell. The first sin he encounters in hell is that of passive sodomy; all other sins, including heterosexual sodomy, are further down--that is, considered more severe. This distinction between homosexual and heterosexual sodomy may owe something to Muslim culture.
The Literature of the Islamic Period
The theme of homosexuality is relatively common in Persian literature of the Islamic period. It is most often expressed in idealistic works celebrating the love of young, hairless boys, but it is also found in rough pornographic prose and poetry, including satire. Homosexuality also appears in wisdom literature. Commonly it is coupled with disparaging remarks about women and heterosexual love and intercourse, an attitude not alien to Muslim culture in general.
Homosexuality is a topic in the Qabusname (1083), a book of advice from a father to his son. The advice of the father is that one should exclude neither form of sexuality but try both. Sometimes one is better than the other. For instance, intercourse with women is deemed healthier in winter, with young men in summer. On the whole, intelligence is seen as a more important criterion than gender for choosing a lover.
Sa'di
The most important Persian poet to explore the love of young men by men is Sa'di of Shiraz. He was born before 1189 and wrote his masterpieces, including the Golestan (Rose Garden), near the middle of the thirteenth century. Chapter 5 of the Golestan is wholly devoted to the love of youths, most of them male, some female, and some impossible to determine since Persian grammar is not gendered.
In Sa'di's poetry, as in most Persian poetry, the love of a beautiful boy, the shahid or "witness [of beauty]," is the means by which the poet focuses on the Divine Beloved. This spirituality does not, however, make the poetic expression less sensuous. Sa'di also wrote a number of pornographic poems, in which he exhibits the same artful skill as in his more spiritual work.
'Obeid-e Zakani
The greatest practitioner of erotic satire is 'Obeid-e Zakani (Nezam al-din 'Obeid Allah Zakini), who died around 1370. Much of his work, which is partly in prose and partly in verse, has considerable literary merit. It frequently takes the form of short anecdotes or jokes, some of them quite coarse and of a type still repeated everywhere.
For example: "A sodomite says to a young boy, 'If you let me **** you, I promise I will use only half my ****.' The boy consents. The sodomite rams it in to the hilt. The boy reminds him of his promise. The sodomite replies that he meant the second half of his ****."



Of more literary significance is 'Obeid-e Zakani's parody of the Persian national epic poem, The Book of Kings, which was written by Ferdousi (Abu l-Qasem Mansur) in the second half of the tenth century. One of the main figures in this voluminous composition is Rostam, who performs numerous heroic deeds and becomes a national hero.
'Obeid-e Zakani gives an interesting twist to Rostam's duels with his opponent Human, turning one of them into an erotic tryst. This poem thereby provides one of the few examples of adult male reciprocal sex in which mutuality is emphasized. When the heroes put aside their martial weapons and attack each other with their impressive natural equipment, they alternate being top and bottom. The poet concludes: "Know that eternal bliss is in intercourse, but only he obtains bliss who also gives."
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Pederasty in Turkish Courts
Under the Turkish Ghaznavid, Seljuq, and Khawarazmshah rulers of Iran in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, pederastypederasty was quite common in courtly circles. Ayaz, a slave boy of Sultan Mahmud of Ghazna achieved fame in literature as a model lover. Mahmud and Ayaz eventually gained a place among the favorite pairs of lovers in Persian literature, and Ayaz himself becomes a model of purity in Sufi literature.
Iradj Mirza
A modern poet who explores pederasty in his verse is Iradj Mirza (1874-1926), who was official court poet before becoming a civil servant. His poetry remains popular. Some of his poems describe his infatuation with young men. In one, he recounts sodomizing the son of one of his friends after getting him drunk. The upset boy eventually promises to keep quiet for ten packs of cigarettes.
The Absence of Lesbianism in Persian Literature
Descriptions of lesbians and lesbian love are absent from Persian literature though the seclusion of women from men fostered female relationships, as frequently observed by Western travelers in the East.


glbtq >> literature >> Middle Eastern Literature: Persian

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sufism is not Islam
By Shahid A. Chaudhary

Sufism is not Islam: a comparative study
By Shahid A. Chaudhary
Published by Regency Publications, 1998
ISBN 8186030352, 9788186030356

[شمله ور خراساني]

Men, homosexuality, and the Gods
By Ronald Edwin Long (PHD University of New York)

Here is an eye-opening look at the traditions of various religions and their edicts concerning gay sex. This book examines the origins of religious directives involving homosexuality--whether forbidden, tolerated, or mandatory--and establishes a link between theology, sex roles, and masculinity. Suggesting that gay rights can be understood as a freedom of religion issue, the book draws a parallel between homosexuality and religion.

Men, homosexuality, and the Gods: an exploration into the religious significance of male homosexuality in world perspective
By Ronald Edwin Long
Published by Haworth Press, 2004
ISBN 1560231521, 9781560231523
178 pages


On Page 48:

Actual sufi practice may have been more sexually explicit than Sufis have been able to own up to in public. If so, inquiring minds would certainly want to know how a Sufi might have reconciled his over homosexual activity with his identity as a Muslim, and what, if any, spiritual significance he might have attributed to it. However, that might be, it is the practice of “gazing” to which Sufis have attributed spiritual significance. In the context of our exploration, the Sufi practice of shahid bazi is yet another variation of any already recurrent theme, that homosexual romance is a matter of the attraction of a mature man for a younger one

[شمله ور خراساني]

[شمله ور خراساني]

Shame on you Sangar for using kafir's assistance against fellow muslim.

Isn't that what you accused Maseed of? I smell HYPOCRACY

Its shameful, please stop it.

when people use kaafir sources to lie and insult imaam muhammad ibn abdul wahhab it was okay, i guess. But when the same kuffaar write about Sufis suddenly it is shame?

[شمله ور خراساني]

An important book written about Sufi boy-play is called Shahed Bazi by Cyrus Shamisa

[IamDZJ]

I dont see rumi happening here.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar lala

The article you posted talks about Saadi and some other dude and not Rumi, this discussion is about Rumi (ra).

Why do yo resort to shameful acts when you can't provide proof for your assumptions?

I will give you a link to full version of masnavi.

Go and find me an objectionable poem where it proves Rumi (ra) was gay.

مولوی

Both divan e shams and masnavi are available there. Go and dig it up boy.

Why is Rumi writing about Shams beauty and kissing him here?

[شمله ور خراساني]

This highly original book brings into focus the sexual discourses manifest in a wealth of little-studied source material--medical texts, legal documents, religious literature, dream interpretation manuals, shadow theater, and travelogues--in a nuanced, wide-ranging, and powerfully analytic exploration of Ottoman sexual thought and practices from the heyday of the Ottoman Empire in the sixteenth century to the beginning of the twentieth. Following on the work of Foucault, Gagnon, Laqueur, and others, the premise of the book is that people shape their ideas of what is permissible, define boundaries of right and wrong, and imagine their sexual worlds through the set of discourses available to them. Dror Ze'evi finds that while some of these discourses were restrictive and others more permissive, all treated sex in its many manifestations as a natural human pursuit. And, he further argues that all these discourses were transformed and finally silenced in the last century, leaving very little to inform Middle Eastern societies in sexual matters. With its innovative approach toward the history of sexuality in the Middle East, Producing Desire sheds new light on the history of the Ottoman Empire, on the history of sexuality and gender, and on the Islamic Middle East today. This highly original book brings into focus the sexual discourses manifest in a wealth of little-studied source material--medical texts, legal documents, religious literature, dream interpretation manuals, shadow theater, and travelogues--in a nuanced, wide-ranging, and powerfully analytic exploration of Ottoman sexual thought and practices from the heyday of the Ottoman Empire in the sixteenth century to the beginning of the twentieth. Following on the work of Foucault, Gagnon, Laqueur, and others, the premise of the book is that people shape their ideas of what is permissible, define boundaries of right and wrong, and imagine their sexual worlds through the set of discourses available to them. Dror Ze'evi finds that while some of these discourses were restrictive and others more permissive, all treated sex in its many manifestations as a natural human pursuit. And, he further argues that all these discourses were transformed and finally silenced in the last century, leaving very little to inform Middle Eastern societies in sexual matters. With its innovative approach toward the history of sexuality in the Middle East, Producing Desire sheds new light on the history of the Ottoman Empire, on the history of sexuality and gender, and on the Islamic Middle East today.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Rūmī and the hermeneutics of eroticism



Drawing on relevant postmodern theories, and exploring the link between the dynamics of eroticism and esotericism, this book establishes the esoteric significance of the bawdy tales in R?m?'s (d. 1273) Mathnaw?, a masterpiece of medieval Perso-Islamic mystical literature.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The feats of the knowers of God:

Manāqeb al-ʻārefīn





This 14th-century biography of Jal?l al-D?n-e R?m?, the greatest Persian mystic poet, is a compendium of Sufi-style stories about his miracles, teachings and his poetry. The work contains chapters on R?m?'s father, Shams al-D?n (his great love), as well as Sol??n Valad and Am?r '?ref (his son and grandson). the work is a major historical source