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  • Osama Bin Ladin

    So many of you know that I am a huge fan of former Alec Station leader Michael Scheuer's analyses and interpretations.

    I just bought his latest book, and likely Magna Opus, Osama Bin Ladin.



    I guess there is no beating around the bush with such a title.

    Already, the first chapter is captivating. He takes on the multiple narratives about the man and debunks them one by one. As an example, he exposes the immediate post 9/11 narrative that Saudi intelligence attempted to push, about a licentious young Osama in Lebanon with dancers named Rita. He takes it on and debunks it with great ease. He then takes on the comrade narratives from former colleagues of Bin Ladin's Abdullah Anas and Hashim Al Makki. He notes that both of these gentleman had competing interests, yet both offer effusive praise of the man as well. Finally, he lethally destroyes the Aymaan Al Zahwari corrupted Osama theory with evidences after evidences. He easily cuts out the neocon narrative.

    He then notes, with a number of attributes that all the premiere texts out there by folks like Bergen et al. all reference the man's actual words an embrassingly low number of times. He equates this with someone writing a book about George Washington but relying primarily on British narratives instead of ever even looking at Washington's own writings.

    Finally, I remain ever impressed with him as he guts Steve Coll's The Bin Ladins an Arabian Family in the American Century: He notes that the book attempts to lionize Salem Bin Ladin, the oldest brother... yet out of all of the family members the individual that attempted to opportunize and comprimise his morals was none other than Salem.

    The ending quote from the chapter, about Coll's book, really leaves me in awe of Mike's ability to understand the Muslim psyche and utilize evidence based practice in security studies:

    "Indeed, only three men Saudis come off as decent, pious, hard working, and persevering men -- Muhammad Bin Ladin (Bin ladins father), King Faisal (of Saudi), and Osama Bin ladin himself."
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    oh, i thought he was introducing himself as a newbie.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by faye View Post
      oh, i thought he was introducing himself as a newbie.
      ^^^^I have to say that made me laugh

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      • #4
        have just been reading about rita katz, the iraqi jewess, said to be leaking false videos of bin laden, for the israelis. bit of a troublemaker, that one.
        i saw that first video after 9/11 where he said the usa needed to look within for the culprits. if he had done it, i figured he'd be bragging about it. so i have always doubted that he was responsible.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by faye View Post
          oh, i thought he was introducing himself as a newbie.
          haha, that would have been so cool.

          imam medhi (as) on the other hand will allegedly communicate with his supporters via the internet and live videophone according to the interpretations of hadith.

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          • #6
            yeah, rita katz, eat your heart out!

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            • #7
              I like King Faisal VERY MUCH.

              I always did, and especially so after reading a wonderful biography of him by a Lebanese admirer.

              It was so much more authentic and pure than any American or Western source would ever be in 5,000 years...

              As for this book, I'm glad that obvious myths are dispelled.
              But Osama has been SO overestimated in importance that i cannot see myself
              reading what I consider still a mixture of fact, fiction, theories, etc.

              I'm the type who would go and try to interview people myself to gain
              the most accurate perspective.

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              • #8
                Here's another thought:

                When we all die, NO ONE but NO ONE will quiz us about what we know about Osama or any other
                figure.

                As I started to say above, he has been so showcased -
                ad nauseam -
                that I think one has to pick and choose what to spend free time reading about.

                I looked up the author, Michael Scheuer, for the first time just now.
                I see he comes from a Catholic background which is a positive: Catholics
                were always much alert about Israel than any other religious group in contemporary America.

                Not so now, but in previous decades this was true.

                So I see he went to a Catholic university, which I'm glad for as it's a superb education.

                But why is he not giving more of the picture of the grand schema
                of things is my question.

                He makes SOME anti-Israel statements which is great.

                But why does he believe in what I consider to be the Myth of Osama
                so implicitly?
                The American public will buys books like hotcakes about Osama.

                But we need the best truth - and I am skeptical about first and foremost
                WHY Osama got built up into MEGA-Hero SUPPOSEDLY to the Islamic world
                and MEGA-Monster to all Americans who cannot think for themselves [that means 99 % in this era !]

                I think Scheuer is right but only as far as he is willing to go in questioning
                why Osama is so important to the US.

                Here's one quotation from the wikipedia article on this author:

                "The Iranians are no threat to the United States unless we provoke them. They may be a threat to the Israelis. They‘re not a threat to the United States.
                The threat to the United States, inside the United States, comes from al Qaeda....These people are going to detonate a nuclear device inside the United States, and we're going to have absolutely nothing to respond against." (Countdown with Keith Olbermann, February 19, 2006)

                I see this man as playing into the mania for drumming up fear of -WHAT???
                A nuclear device detonated by him or Al-Qaeda in the US ???

                That's way beyond belief.

                However ! This is precisely WHAT the US govt. wants all citizens to fight back against this invented threat, by subsidizing govt agencies, Blackwaters galore, etc.

                I never would believe that yarn for one minute.

                All the US govt - and tightly linked US media - does is drum up a
                phantom threat to scare us.

                What they do is barely mention that word "Nuclear'
                Nuclear suitcase
                Triggers
                uranium processing...

                They link this in a statement or an article
                ---- PRESENTING NO EVIDENCE----
                to any old group they feel is a good target that day:

                Teheran "mad mullahs"
                Al-Qaeda
                Al-Awlaki
                Taliban
                bla bla

                And the ignorant US public drinks it in like soda pop : unquestioningly about the poison in it [let's remember that health post by Admin Khan here!]

                I am taking the trouble to write all this not to attack Barakzai for liking the book but to open any eyes that are willing to the deeper plot here.

                Notice this the next you see "nuclear suitcases/Islamic terrorists/ operatives/
                Tribal Areas of KP" -

                They NEVER OFFER A SHRED of EVIDENCE for their preposterous claims !

                All they have to do is pull these scary words and terms - which most of the public doesn't even know what they mean - what IS a nuclear suitcase, by the way??! -
                out of their hats.

                Then REPEAT THEM over and over to brainwash the public into mute acceptance
                of the analyses of "their betters".

                Who are "their betters" - ? They never inquire much about this

                Finally Iran is NEVER going to attack America in 1,000 years.
                I dont think Michael Scheuer understands the Islamic Republic of Iran at all.

                Neither will they ever launch a first strike on Tel Aviv.

                So I'd say this is all a bunch of Hollywood Horror Movie tactic.

                Our time is so valuable: we should be praying to Allah [swt] to stop whatever
                THE REAL THREATS ARE.

                Probably THOSE in truth involve :
                the same " betters " - in short, the CFR/ Bilderbergers who have their scholars out there working way overtime
                to persuade the public of their very dangerous agenda.

                If Michael Scheuer doesn't mention a word about those, which is understandable to keep up a reputation as an analyst = I have doubts about his presentations SO FAR as giving the complete and entire picture of what we REALLY need to know.

                Maybe he will later!

                For now, if he thinks Teheran is attacking the US some day if provoked [haven't they already been castigated
                to the nth degree? That might provoke some unstable dictatorship.
                If it hasn't rocked the boat for Iran by now, it's not going to. Hence no provoking to create any military
                assault on American soil. Preposterous!] I call into question his judgment of various peoples of the Middle East.

                Al-Qaeda going to launch a nuclear attack anywhere, let alone the US?
                If the Soviets didn't launch a nuclear first strike, yet we were constantly taught to be trembling

                in fear of that possibility,
                it's a total joke that Al-Qaeda COULD OR WOULD ever do such a thing.
                How fast the public forgets!


                The Soviet leadership HATED America far more than a small group of Islamic militants.
                Those latter wish to see America OUT OF THEIR LANDS, that's mostly what they are
                angered about.

                But the American public is too easily led down any garden path, because people never take the
                time to go and meet people in South Asia themselves.
                Too lazy but more, too uncaring.
                Last edited by Catya Sher; 02-11-2011, 05:30 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by qunduz92 View Post
                  haha, that would have been so cool.

                  imam medhi (as) on the other hand will allegedly communicate with his supporters via the internet and live videophone according to the interpretations of hadith.
                  May I ask why you put (as), after mentioning the Mahdi He isn't a prophet. Imam Mahdi isn't mentioned in Bukhari, but in 2 or 3 in Muslim.

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                  • #10
                    catya sher, it's the advertising speel to sell everyone the defence shields. scaring up business, so to speak.
                    bush's script/speech writer was david frum, a jewish chap, hence iran and "axis of evil"
                    america provokes and threatens, places like iran, korea and china, then criticises and makes a big deal about their moving towards defending themselves.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Idiot View Post
                      May I ask why you put (as), after mentioning the Mahdi He isn't a prophet. Imam Mahdi isn't mentioned in Bukhari, but in 2 or 3 in Muslim.
                      although alayhi salam is generally used for prophets, we can still use it for one of the best of creation, the divinely guided caliph who has a very important role to play in the end of times in islam.

                      alayhi salam simply means peace be upon him, and scholars of islam actually encourage we use it for imam mahdi (as).

                      for the second part i dont quite get your point. imam mahdi is mentioned in a plethora of ahadith and all the sunni scholars of fiqh held the belief in him as fardh.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by qunduz92 View Post
                        although alayhi salam is generally used for prophets, we can still use it for one of the best of creation, the divinely guided caliph who has a very important role to play in the end of times in islam.

                        alayhi salam simply means peace be upon him, and scholars of islam actually encourage we use it for imam mahdi (as).

                        for the second part i dont quite get your point. imam mahdi is mentioned in a plethora of ahadith and all the sunni scholars of fiqh held the belief in him as fardh.
                        For non prophets, they use (RA)" may Allah be pleased with him", when you read the hadiths, that is used for all companions of the prophet. What I meant was that Imam Mahdi, is not mentioned in Sahih Bukhari. But, is mentioned in 2 or 3 hadiths in Sahih Muslim. The mahdi is mentioned in abundance in Haditns recorded with Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, and Ahmad. These three are not considered "Sahih", they contradict hadiths from Bukhari.

                        Also, shias say (as), after the Mahdi, and the house of Ali. And BTW, I do belief in a Mahdi.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Idiot View Post
                          For non prophets, they use (RA)" may Allah be pleased with him", when you read the hadiths, that is used for all companions of the prophet. What I meant was that Imam Mahdi, is not mentioned in Sahih Bukhari. But, is mentioned in 2 or 3 hadiths in Sahih Muslim. The mahdi is mentioned in abundance in Haditns recorded with Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, and Ahmad. These three are not considered "Sahih", they contradict hadiths from Bukhari.

                          Also, shias say (as), after the Mahdi, and the house of Ali. And BTW, I do belief in a Mahdi.
                          yes for people such as the ashaab we use radiallahu anhu/anha. imam mahdi (as) classification is however well-above the ashaab in that he actually receives wahy (revelations/inspiration from Allah (swt))just like the prophets did.

                          rasulullah (saw) said there would be none from the creation, after him (saw), that would be better than him in terms of righteousness except Imam mahdi (as) who would be a direct descendant of his (saw) and will resemble him in both character and appearance. he will be among the best of creation of all time.

                          i think this is a very futile matter to be honest, they both are terms of respect. the case of imam mahdi (as) is singular, with none other like it, therefore a subject of confusion to some. but you can prefer not saying anything after his name and i will, likewise, do what i feel is appropriate.

                          as far as the collections of hadith you mention besides muslim and bukhari, they are generally accepted as authentic and reliable by scholars of islam based upon their individual isnaad (chain of narrators). our acceptance of them is therefore considered a part of faith and not optional.
                          Last edited by qunduz92; 02-11-2011, 09:20 PM.

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                          • #14
                            ^^^. Can you please tell me everything you know about the Mahdi? I really want to know. Like what he looks like, what he can be able to do

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Idiot View Post
                              ^^^. Can you please tell me everything you know about the Mahdi? I really want to know. Like what he looks like, what he can be able to do
                              lolzz

                              like what i know off the top of my head?

                              you can easily do a search if you want authentic sources.

                              if i tell you things, you are going to press me for references so i think it would be easier for you to check some credible online sources that have compiled authentic narrations regarding him.

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