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  • Male and female ability differences down to socialisation, not genetics

    It is the mainstay of countless magazine and newspaper features. Differences between male and female abilities – from map reading to multi-tasking and from parking to expressing emotion – can be traced to variations in the hard-wiring of their brains at birth, it is claimed.
    Men instinctively like the colour blue and are bad at coping with pain, we are told, while women cannot tell jokes but are innately superior at empathising with other people. Key evolutionary differences separate the intellects of men and women and it is all down to our ancient hunter-gatherer genes that program our brains.
    The belief has become widespread, particularly in the wake of the publication of international bestsellers such as John Gray's Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus that stress the innate differences between the minds of men and women. But now a growing number of scientists are challenging the pseudo-science of "neurosexism", as they call it, and are raising concerns about its implications. These researchers argue that by telling parents that boys have poor chances of acquiring good verbal skills and girls have little prospect of developing mathematical prowess, serious and unjustified obstacles are being placed in the paths of children's education.
    In fact, there are no major neurological differences between the sexes, says Cordelia Fine in her book Delusions of Gender, which will be published by Icon next month. There may be slight variations in the brains of women and men, added Fine, a researcher at Melbourne University, but the wiring is soft, not hard. "It is flexible, malleable and changeable," she said.
    In short, our intellects are not prisoners of our genders or our genes and those who claim otherwise are merely coating old-fashioned stereotypes with a veneer of scientific credibility. It is a case backed by Lise Eliot, an associate professor based at the Chicago Medical School. "All the mounting evidence indicates these ideas about hard-wired differences between male and female brains are wrong," she told the Observer.
    "Yes, there are basic behavioural differences between the sexes, but we should note that these differences increase with age because our children's intellectual biases are being exaggerated and intensified by our gendered culture. Children don't inherit intellectual differences. They learn them. They are a result of what we expect a boy or a girl to be."
    Thus boys develop improved spatial skills not because of an innate superiority but because they are expected and are encouraged to be strong at sport, which requires expertise at catching and throwing. Similarly, it is anticipated that girls will be more emotional and talkative, and so their verbal skills are emphasised by teachers and parents.
    The latter example, on the issue of verbal skills, is particularly revealing, neuroscientists argue. Girls do begin to speak earlier than boys, by about a month on average, a fact that is seized upon by supporters of the Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus school of intellectual differences.
    However, this gap is really a tiny difference compared to the vast range of linguistic abilities that differentiate people, Robert Plomin, a professor at the Institute of Psychiatry in London, pointed out. His studies have found that a mere 3% of the variation in young children's verbal development is due to their gender.
    "If you map the distribution of scores for verbal skills of boys and of girls you get two graphs that overlap so much you would need a very fine pencil indeed to show the difference between them. Yet people ignore this huge similarity between boys and girls and instead exaggerate wildly the tiny difference between them. It drives me wild," Plomin told the Observer.
    This point is backed by Eliot. "Yes, boys and girls, men and women, are different," she states in a recent paper in New Scientist. "But most of those differences are far smaller than the Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus stereotypes suggest.
    "Nor are the reasoning, speaking, computing, emphasising, navigating and other cognitive differences fixed in the genetic architecture of our brains.
    "All such skills are learned and neuro-plasticity – the modifications of neurons and their connections in response experience – trumps hard-wiring every time."
    The current popular stress on innate intellectual differences between the sexes is, in part, a response to psychologists' emphasis of the environment's importance in the development of skills and personality in the 1970s and early 1980s, said Eliot. This led to a reaction against nurture as the principal factor in the development of human characteristics and to an exaggeration of the influence of genes and inherited abilities. This view is also popular because it propagates the status quo, she added. "We are being told there is nothing we can do to improve our potential because it is innate. That is wrong. Boys can develop powerful linguistic skills and girls can acquire deep spatial skills."
    In short, women can read maps despite claims that they lack the spatial skills for such efforts, while men can learn to empathise and need not be isolated like Mel Gibson's Nick Marshall, the emotionally retarded male lead of the film What Women Want and a classic stereotype of the unfeeling male that is perpetuated by the supporters of the hard-wired school of intellectual differences.
    This point was also stressed by Fine. "Many of the studies that claim to highlight differences between the brains of males and females are spurious. They are based on tests carried out on only a small number of individuals and their results are often not repeated by other scientists. However, their results are published and are accepted by teachers and others as proof of basic differences between boys and girls.
    "All sorts of ridiculous conclusions about very important issues are then made. Already sexism disguised in neuroscientific finery is changing the way children are taught."
    So should we abandon our search for the "real" differences between the sexes and give up this "pernicious pinkification of little girls", as one scientist has put it?
    Yes, we should, Eliot insisted. "There is almost nothing we do with our brains that is hard-wired. Every skill, attribute and personality trait is moulded by experience."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...think-same-way
    "O Pakhtuns!, Your house has fallen into ruin, let us rebuild it".
    "I want to see my people educated and enlightened. A people with a vision and a strong sense of justice, who can carve out a future for themselves in harmony with nature".

  • #2
    "But most of those differences are far smaller than the Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus stereotypes suggest. Nor are the reasoning, speaking, computing, emphasising, navigating and other cognitive differences fixed in the genetic architecture of our brains. All such skills are learned and neuro-plasticity – the modifications of neurons and their connections in response experience – trumps hard-wiring every time.

    ....There is almost nothing we do with our brains that is hard-wired. Every skill, attribute and personality trait is moulded by experience."
    So, let's say, some time in the future, a society comes up that treats boys and girls equally, no pinkification and stuff, will that allow women to be equal to men and not under them (men are responsible for women argument). Secondly, will a woman's testimony in court still be counted as half of that of a man's?

    Alternatively, I'd like to suggest that science is an imperfect process. It's self-correcting, which suggests that it's always wrong/incorrect to begin with. Therefore, I reject this study.
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".

    Comment


    • #3
      I think nature has its way of creating a balance. So, even if there was no "oppression" of women, I think that at the end of the day they would still be different than men. I think looking at the natural world would shed a lot of light into this.

      I think that a society cannot function without one or the other. They are equally as important to the survival of the other. Emotionally, they also balance each other out. Therefore, they must be different.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by pakistani
        This is very true. when woman are all locked home like birds they cant be as smart as men who have real world experience. women need to go out and experience life. sadly in Pashtunkhwa all women are locked in cages. 98 percent women are locked.
        The traditional male bias towards women is present in all societies and cultures but vary greatly in degree.Some societies have started accepting female's role outside home,but others still consider them animals such as goats and sheep that could be exchanged.

        I refute your claim of 98% women being caged in Khyber-Pashthunkhwa.Females of Khyber-Pashtunkhwa, both in villages and cities, go to schools and the universities are full of women students compared to the 50 years back. I have lived my life there and I know the enthusiam of parents towards female education.

        The violence against women is present in every province of Pakistan, with Punjab topping the list (2009) according to the HRCP, Pakistan:

        "8,548 incidents of violence against women were reported in the four provinces and in Islamabad last year. Of them, 5,722 incidents were recorded in Punjab, 1762 in Sindh, 655 in NWFP, 237 in Balochistan and 172 in Islamabad.In Islamabad, the 172 incidents included 39 cases of murder, two of ‘honour’ killing, 52 of abduction/kidnapping and 18 of domestic violence.The figures are part of a report yet to be published."

        Source:Human Rights Commission of Pakistan
        "O Pakhtuns!, Your house has fallen into ruin, let us rebuild it".
        "I want to see my people educated and enlightened. A people with a vision and a strong sense of justice, who can carve out a future for themselves in harmony with nature".

        Comment


        • #5
          Great post...one another proof for your ulterior misogyny and a sexist..oops! a neurosexist.
          Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
          So, let's say, some time in the future, a society comes up that treats boys and girls equally, no pinkification and stuff, will that allow women to be equal to men and not under them (men are responsible for women argument). Secondly, will a woman's testimony in court still be counted as half of that of a man's?

          Alternatively, I'd like to suggest that science is an imperfect process. It's self-correcting, which suggests that it's always wrong/incorrect to begin with. Therefore, I reject this study.
          "O Pakhtuns!, Your house has fallen into ruin, let us rebuild it".
          "I want to see my people educated and enlightened. A people with a vision and a strong sense of justice, who can carve out a future for themselves in harmony with nature".

          Comment


          • #6
            OMGOMGOMGOMG!!! I've so much to say!!!!! This is me, folks, this is me! :D I love discussions like this!

            But I can't afford to say much right now. So I'll keep it short.

            That is absolutely true. The differences are more social than genetic, and often, what we hear is: "Look, I'm not a man, okay? I'm not gonnna BEHAVE like one!" To such folks, "behaving like men" means having the same rights as men. That's an entirely separate thread on its own (whether having the same rights requires that we LOOK the same or BE the same), so I don't know whether I should discuss that here.

            But last week, I was assigned the task of doing a literature review on polygamy (including polyandry), gender, and human sexuality, and I found some of the most fascinating things ever. I also learned more about this whole gender/sex differences topic, and that, too, proved very enlightening. I've to cut down a 10-page report to 2 pages at most and might blog on it. I don't think I'll EVER look at polygamy the same way again (no, this doesn't mean I support it now).

            However, facts remain facts: Depending on WHO (male or female) is doing the studying researching, your findings may vary. Although no scientist, anthropologist, researcher, etc. AFTER the 1970s has dared to say that women are intellectually inferior to men or has futilely attempted to "prove" that women belong in the house while men outside, results and conclusions still vary drastically from scientist to scientist and anthropologist to anthropologist. Hence, some will actually disagree with the report above (some, including John Gray, author of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus). Give it a couple of more decades, and, just like people stopped saying that men are naturally (biologically) polygamous after doing extensive studies on various kinds of animals (including humans), they'll stop saying that women are from Venus and men from Mars.

            So, very interesting stuff
            Last edited by Guest; 08-20-2010, 01:08 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Qrratugai,
              Seems like you have some interesting research cooking. You mind teaching us more about the subject on hand? I'd love to read your research work.
              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pakistani
                This is very true. when woman are all locked home like birds they cant be as smart as men who have real world experience. women need to go out and experience life. sadly in Pashtunkhwa all women are locked in cages. 98 percent women are locked.
                You know, I would refrain from making such a grand generalization. I'm sure we all know that it's NEVER "all," so the first boldened part can't be true. Your second boldened comment, however, contradicts your previous one - so which one is it? All or 98%? ...

                Nonetheless, have you done an actual study of women to determine what percentage is locked? I understand you're just giving an estimation, and I thank you for caring enough to acknowledge that not all women are treated the way they'd like to be treated, but your numbers are far off - and I'd say this even if you were an ethnographer and had studied the women of Pashtunkhwa all your life.

                But, yes, a sadly large majority are treated miserably.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Qrratugai
                  You want me to send you the ten pages? haha.

                  Sure, what do you wanna know? I deal with gender matters -- from gender relations in religion and culture to the specific community where I live -- and human behavior on a regular basis as part of my researches.

                  I'll try to narrow the current findings to a couple of pages and then maybe post them here or on my blog. Will let you know then.
                  Gender matters have always fascinated me. I was once teamed up with a great student who was quite fond of gender studies --so I guess in a way I always had a *thing* for it. If you don't mind, please post them in PF and do let me know when they have been posted.

                  I love reading research papers. Especially when I know the person behind it cause I get to question the paper at times and I receive direct responses from the person who has conducted the research work.

                  I am excited now.
                  Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                  A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                  For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                  The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                  -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ^ Rrrreally???... You've had a thing for Gender Studies?! That's so good to hear! Most universities throughout the U.S. offer courses in the subject, and, unfortunately, too many people think it's just for women! So when a male shows interest in it, it's always exciting. In the courses I've taken in gender studies, there have been three male students at the most!

                    k, I'll post it here when it's done... or maybe I'll not even shorten it but just post it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Qrratugai View Post
                      ^ Rrrreally???... You've had a thing for Gender Studies?! That's so good to hear! Most universities throughout the U.S. offer courses in the subject, and, unfortunately, too many people think it's just for women! So when a male shows interest in it, it's always exciting. In the courses I've taken in gender studies, there have been three male students at the most!

                      k, I'll post it here when it's done... or maybe I'll not even shorten it but just post it.
                      My university is really big on Gender studies. I have taken a few courses even though it had absolutely nothing to do with my Major. What I always found amusing was the minute a Female spoke about it or expressed interest in it they were labelled a feminist who is attempting to instigate and fuel up gender tensions. Interesting huh?

                      But yes, please be sure to post it here.
                      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                        My university is really big on Gender studies. I have taken a few courses even though it had absolutely nothing to do with my Major. What I always found amusing was the minute a Female spoke about it or expressed interest in it they were labelled a feminist who is attempting to instigate and fuel up gender tensions. Interesting huh?
                        OMG, yes! And you ask the person who's putting that label on you to define "feminism" and they don't or can't define it! I have read and heard some of the most ridiculous definitions of feminism as well as some that I would personally totally appreciate and even apply to myself, and, really, there's no consensus on what a person has to believe or do in order to be considered a feminist. So I always find it interesting that some people are so quick to decide whether someone else is a feminist.

                        I did a study last year on Muslim women's organizations where I live, and, although every single one of the women leaders was a staunch supporter of women's rights (equal access to education, equal say in marriage and marital affairs, equal rights in general), hardly a couple of them classified themselves as feminists. That shattered my own definition of what a feminist is and I learned not to label anyone but If I MUST, I shouldn't use my own standards and definitions.

                        But, yeah, it's possible that the label is repelled because of the numerous misconceptions associated with it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Qrratugai View Post
                          OMG, yes! And you ask the person who's putting that label on you to define "feminism" and they don't or can't define it!
                          The reason they can't define it is quite obvious. If they offer a rebuttal on the definition they would end up feeling really dumb. "Feminism means demanding for equal rights!!" Obviously the counter-response would be, "So do you have a problem with that?" Feminism is a centuries old concept that is being coined frequently so males can be dominant in patriarchal societies. The minute a women becomes independent a problem arises for the husband, he begins to realize he can't demand for the most strangest things in the world cause she can just get up and back her bags the minute you try to shove some absurd concept in her cerebral cortex.
                          I have read and heard some of the most ridiculous definitions of feminism as well as some that I would personally totally appreciate and even apply to myself, and, really, there's no consensus on what a person has to believe or do in order to be considered a feminist. So I always find it interesting that some people are so quick to decide whether someone else is a feminist.
                          Indeed true, What you might consider feminism, I might consider a basic human right for a female according to UN Declaration of Humans Rights. Remember France? Feminism? In fact, I think the picture below summarizes most of what I am attempting to say.


                          I did a study last year on Muslim women's organizations where I live, and, although every single one of the women leaders was a staunch supporter of women's rights (equal access to education, equal say in marriage and marital affairs, equal rights in general), hardly a couple of them classified themselves as feminists. That shattered my own definition of what a feminist is and I learned not to label anyone but If I MUST, I shouldn't use my own standards and definitions.

                          But, yeah, it's possible that the label is repelled because of the numerous misconceptions associated with it.
                          I did many similar studies. Politics also has a role in this and I would even go as far as labelling it as a sense of denial. It's a phase, the word feminism to many is like a virus-infection.

                          "Oh no, keep me away from that word. Death to all!"
                          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Akhem, akhem, would I also be able to get my hands on your essay?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                              The reason they can't define it is quite obvious. If they offer a rebuttal on the definition they would end up feeling really dumb. "Feminism means demanding for equal rights!!" Obviously the counter-response would be, "So do you have a problem with that?" Feminism is a centuries old concept that is being coined frequently so males can be dominant in patriarchal societies. The minute a women becomes independent a problem arises for the husband, he begins to realize he can't demand for the most strangest things in the world cause she can just get up and back her bags the minute you try to shove some absurd concept in her cerebral cortex.
                              Indeed true, What you might consider feminism, I might consider a basic human right for a female according to UN Declaration of Humans Rights. Remember France? Feminism? In fact, I think the picture below summarizes most of what I am attempting to say.


                              I did many similar studies. Politics also has a role in this and I would even go as far as labelling it as a sense of denial. It's a phase, the word feminism to many is like a virus-infection.

                              "Oh no, keep me away from that word. Death to all!"
                              Absolutely! and hahahaha ... I neglected to say that the "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people" is my personal favorite definition of the term

                              I also completely agree that feminism itself is an old concept but the definitions are new. Another reason why people, including feminists themselves, are hesitant to define it is this: It varies from culture to culture, society to society, country to country. There's even such a thing as "Islamic feminism" (another of my personal favorite sub-field within Islamic Studies), and even that varies from scholar to scholar and country to country. In Iran, women are actively fighting for their basic human rights ("but what does 'basic human rights' mean, and who decides what those are?" yeah?), but they're certainly nowhere near the activism of women activists in Morocco -- and Morocco is nowhere near Egypt's women's activism.

                              So, if I were to define feminism, I would have to change it with the changing community and changing group of people I'm talking about.

                              I'm so happy to hear that you're interested in this :D I had no idea!!

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