Ethics: Kantian vs Utilitarian

[Gulalai]

lol i'm taking a philosophy course

[JAMALUDEEN]

Utilitarianism

If you are going to perform an act or follow a rule that would bring about the greatest amount of good, happiness and pleasure for everyone affected by it. How can you be so certain that the action or following a rule will bring about good consequences for others? What you may consider as good for yourself, may not actually be good for others. What may actually bring about the greatest happiness to you, may not actually bring happiness to others. We are all different and unique.

Kantianism

Would you save a blind man, who doesn't realise that he is about to enter the road, and might as well get hit by a car and probably die. You are standing across the road watching, and do not help him because jay walking is not allowed. The consequences do not matter.

[JAMALUDEEN]

hey, gulalai,

I don't see how kantianism is related to religion. I studied ethics 2 years ago, and might have missed something. You can tell us about it :P

[Gulalai]

in Kantianism you have a set of morals and you stick to them.

[Gulalai]

ok, but here is what i dont get....

So in Susan Wolf's paper on moral saints she discusses how Kantians or Utilitarians would prefer a Loving Saint (one who helps others for happiness and enjoys it) or a Rational Saint (one who believes it is a duty to help others, whether or not they enjoy it)over the other. butttt how could you decide?? Because you could argue that a Kantian would go with a Loving Saint because he/she believes something like "if you were in need of help you would want someone to happily help you" but at the same time you could argue that a Kantian would go with Rational Saint because they are are fulfilling a "moral duty". On the other hand you could say Utilitarianism goes with Loving Saints because it makes you and a bunch of other people happy.. but why couldnt Utilitarianism go with a Rational Saint because the ends of both, a Loving Saint's and a Rational Saint's, actions will be the same so either way you will be making a bunch of people happy? :S
But i think maybe she was trying to say that no Moral Saint wold fit under these, but if you had to it would be like "..." in which case i guess she is right then.
But say she wasn't saying it like that.... if there are so many varieties in these classes of ethics then how can you say what they would do? Or is it not about that? Is it just about the reasoning of a decision instead of the actual outcome?

here's the link to the essay.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fphilosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu%2Ffaculty%2Frarneson%2FCourses%2Fsusanwolfessay1982.pdf&ei=jnIHT9GjKef50gHxjZWXAg&usg=AFQjCNHNfkWSfvMbrBJVvWiHp8jhVYflOA&sig2=3TgRnR50RhWfmtOXlhlWng

The part i'm talking about is in the "Moral Saints and Moral Theories" section but you might want to read before that to understand her stance on Moral Saints first :P

[Al Hanif]

They're both man made ideologies. They're both distilled poisons for humanity.

Philosophy is a giant clusterfunk of satanic inspired ideas spawned by neurotic men in contact with evil jinns.

Mathematics and Physics are the only ways to go.

[faye]

man are you funny. you idolise hitler but are terrified of philosophy. are you really a muslim, alf?

[Al Hanif]

man are you funny. you idolise hitler but are terrified of philosophy. are you really a muslim, alf?

I never idolized Hitler. Why do idolaters always lie ?

Oh wait, it's because your religion doesn't forbid you to lie.

[faye]

i would have thought your love of hitler and genocide would be against the morality of islam.

[Al Hanif]

i would have thought your love of hitler and genocide would be against the morality of islam.

Hitler was a great man and I agree with many of his ideas.

However, all the prophets and messengers of Allah Almighty are greater men than him.

I don't worship the prophets of Allah Almighty and I don't worship Hitler.

Kill yourself or die trying.

[faye]

you one confused child, alf. donkey dust for brains.

[Al Hanif]

you one confused child, alf. donkey dust for brains.

Are you serious ? You are constantly insulting me every 2 posts, think that you are god, said that you are "white outside, brown inside", refuse to admit that anglo saxons are the most barbaric and savage people on this planet when faced to blatant proofs, make up lies against people like in this thread, constantly provoke people, derail threads like this one, humiliated yourself in the thread saying that I was reading DZJ's comments when I wasn't, etc.

People see everything. No matter how hard you will try to defame people, you will just make yourself look bad and them look good.

Only the filthiest people here will be proud of your behaviour.

How old are you again ? 63 ? Have some shame.

[faye]

take that rest you said you need...from the net. you poor lost soul.
go and do some living, boy.