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Why Freedom Without Virtue is a Dangerous Thing

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  • Why Freedom Without Virtue is a Dangerous Thing




    At the heart of all politics is the conflict or at least the tension between individual liberty and the common good. This conflict or tension gives rise to an array of paradoxical questions. To what extent, for instance, does my taking of liberties for myself lead to the taking of liberty from others? Do my rights wrong others? If so, are my rights wrong? These paradoxes present a conundrum that we must answer if we are to find the healthy balance between my rights as an individual and the rights of others. It is the paradox encapsulated by Oscar Wilde when he insisted that anarchy is “freedom’s own Judas,” or the paradox summarized by Edmund Burke in the maxim that liberty must be limited in order to be possessed, or the paradox insisted upon by Alexander Solzhenitsyn that self-limitation is the heart of all true freedom.

    Let’s put these paradoxes and these wise men to the test. Does the libertine really enjoy liberty? Is “free love” really free or does it come at a terribly high price?

    These questions came to my mind this week during a visit to Rome, when I found myself confronted by a young woman, attired punkishly and clearly out of her mind on booze or drugs, or both. She lurched towards me begging aggressively for money while her accomplice, a man slightly older and similarly attired, sprawled swayingly against the wall. They had presumably chosen the path of least resistance, which they would no doubt call freedom, and had done what they wanted and not what they should. They are now addicted to their “freedoms”-- the booze, the drugs, and the sex. But for all their proclamations of their “right” to be “free,” they are less free than the rest of us. The truth is that bad habits become an addiction, and those suffering from addiction are not free. In a perverse paradox, they have enslaved themselves in the name of freedom.

    Worse, or at least as bad, they have taken liberties with others in their taking of liberties for themselves. How many naïve young people have been seduced into this life of slavery? How many have been ensnared by these addictive bad habits in the name of an illusory “freedom”? How many owe their slavery to their being abused by those promising them liberty? How many people living vicious and pathetic lives are doing so because they were abused by vicious and pathetic parents or friends?

    Having put the three wise men--Wilde, Burke and Solzhenitsyn—to the test, we can perhaps agree that the libertine is not only taking liberties from others but is actually taking liberties from himself when he takes such liberties. It’s a lose-lose situation. He makes his own life miserable in making the lives of his neighbors miserable. There are no winners in this economy of self-gratification.

    Perhaps we should end by reminding ourselves that vice leads to viciousness because viciousness is simply the outward manifestation of vice. The opposite of vice is virtue, the latter of which is the free choice to limit our liberty that we might possess it. It is choosing self-limitation as the path of freedom. It is, therefore, a tragedy for both individual freedom and the common good that the word “virtue” has been banished from our vocabulary and curriculum. This bodes ill for the future. A society without virtue will be vicious, and a vicious society will care as little about authentic freedom as it cares about virtue. Can freedom lead to slavery? You better believe it.


    Joseph Pearce.






    "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."






  • #2
    quite amusing to see a secular communist woman posting this. Are you having a crisis of faith?
    Originally posted by Firdousi
    Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

    Comment


    • #3
      "a secular communist woman"


      No, I am not having a crisis. I am not summable by liceheads like you.. It's just that you convince yourself that I am not of the same lot as you because I am "a secular communist woman" but whenever you see something in me that does not support that theory of yours, it does not occurs to you that your theory might be based on bull**** but instead, you assume it's either because I am having a "crisis" or being a "hypocrite".


      I am fine. My faith is not so wobbly that I would be having a crisis any time soon over it. Thanks for the concern.

      "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
        "a secular communist woman"


        No, I am not having a crisis. I am not summable by liceheads like you.. It's just that you convince yourself that I am not of the same lot as you because I am "a secular communist woman" but whenever you see something in me that does not support that theory of yours, it does not occurs to you that your theory might be based on bull**** but instead, you assume it's either because I am having a "crisis" or being a "hypocrite".


        I am fine. My faith is not so wobbly that I would be having a crisis any time soon over it. Thanks for the concern.
        I don't have theories. I observe. You have defended secular fascism and communist regimes and you have advocated for immorality. I don't know you personally. I know your writing here on PF.
        Originally posted by Firdousi
        Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
          I don't have theories. I observe. You have defended secular fascism and communist regimes and you have advocated for immorality. I don't know you personally. I know your writing here on PF.
          Yo don't just observe, you observe, you decide what it means by passing on judgments and then you label.

          When have I advocated for immorality??

          "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
            Yo don't just observe, you observe, you decide what it means by passing on judgments and then you label.

            When have I advocated for immorality??
            Passing judgement based on what we observe is the most sane thing to do. You pass judgements all the time.

            Are you asking me to quote you where you have advocated for immorality?
            Originally posted by Firdousi
            Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't care care how you do it. Just answer the question. How did I advocate for immorality??.

              "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
                I don't care care how you do it. Just answer the question. How did I advocate for immorality??.

                Okay, I will take a few minutes to look for your posts on pf when I get the opportunity during the weekend. Don't sit and wait, I am quite busy. But when I get the opportunity I will post a few examples.
                Originally posted by Firdousi
                Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cracks knuckles**
                  Take as long as you need, vodka boy. As long as you need...

                  "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unlimited freedom is a bad thing, however looking at this world, there is no real system we can follow which is perfect

                    In Canada here we have a lot of freedom, however it is abused too. Children have freedom to curse their parents, and this has created a horrible family system here. Drugs are freely available, thats why there are so many drug addicts etc..... On the flip side you have the ultra conservative Islamic societies, where no freedom is allowed at all, that system is a complete failure, just look the horrible aspects of those societies, they are countless

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This depends on how you define virtue.

                      Having put the three wise men--Wilde, Burke and Solzhenitsyn—to the test, we can perhaps agree that the libertine is not only taking liberties from others but is actually taking liberties from himself when he takes such liberties. It’s a lose-lose situation. He makes his own life miserable in making the lives of his neighbors miserable. There are no winners in this economy of self-gratification.


                      He makes a lot of blanket assumptions to get to this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Really? I read an article that once said rape is a bad a thing no matter who does it. Seemed like it was common sense (and virtuous).

                        It's an established fact that a caged animal is an animal. When you walk in to his cage and then cry about being bit, you prove yourself an idiot. I have no sympathy for women who get raped while in the beds of unknown men, bars or parties where they know people with whom they don't share values, are going to be participating.
                        Women who get raped in third world countries are not under the influence of drugs, are minding their own business or on their way to the market. That is a tragedy while the former one is a joke.
                        So yeah, I don't have any respect for the majority of rape victims in the west.



                        "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post

                          It's an established fact that a caged animal is an animal. When you walk in to his cage and then cry about being bit, you prove yourself an idiot. I have no sympathy for women who get raped while in the beds of unknown men, bars or parties where they know people with whom they don't share values, are going to be participating.
                          Women who get raped in third world countries are not under the influence of drugs, are minding their own business or on their way to the market. That is a tragedy while the former one is a joke.
                          So yeah, I don't have any respect for the majority of rape victims in the west.


                          Would you like to rephrase that? Based on yesterday's discussion I would say your view on the West and the East is not so different. After all, you claimed that

                          A) A women who was documented as bruised and beaten and turned away after reporting ANA/ANP raped her son was to be overlooked since so many others don't complain and join the Army
                          B) An Afghan woman who was raped and then village elders who complained about it, that the latter group should be set on fire

                          All because they didn't agree that it was awesome to bow down to donkeys monkeys and dog washers that are on your favored "team"

                          Thankfully the record has now well recorded your psychiatric inability to distinguish virtue or lack thereof when it clashes with your moronic biases and fairy tails you were raised on about Canadghanistan (a non-existent place that somehow only existed in your decrepit masochistic deviant mind)
                          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Have you considered kissing what is commonly known as my ass?? Everything you do or say ends up being related to ANA or dog washing. Get lost.

                            I personally know an ANA officer who was approached by an old lady for getting beaten up by her son in qandahar every day. He beat the crap out of her son until she herself begged for forgiveness on her son's behalf. I heard it from a third person who has nothing to do with him or the Afghan government. You don't see me randomly inserting that here and there just to emotionally blackmail people that I interact with in threads that have nothing to do with the matter. And you bull**** about my lack of virtue and what not. You are the ****er that starts talking about crotches randomly in conversations that has nothing to do with it. You people become high and nightly on values only when it concerns destroying things. Virtue means **** to your type in every other aspect of life.





                            "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post

                              Have you considered kissing what is commonly known as my ass??

                              Commonly known? Ahem. I will leave you to ponder on your choice of words. And although I appreciate the invitation, I cannot out of honor and obligation take you up on that. Amazing that you went craaazy about the anatomical general reference to "Crotch" yet here you are referencing your own body parts, what kind of dishonorable dingbattery and bimbodom does your commie heritage seem to direct you to woman! lol, get a hold of yourself

                              Everything you do or say ends up being related to ANA or dog washing. Get lost.

                              HAHAHA looool, says the girl that relies on facebook news (I hear Trump does that too) to make ground level assessments and seems to get the story wrong every time. Nope, the way this works is that you say dumb stuff, and if it goes public you get scrutinized. That's how it works for everyone.

                              I personally know an ANA officer who was approached by an old lady for getting beaten up by her son in qandahar every day. He beat the crap out of her son until she herself begged for forgiveness on her son's behalf.

                              Oh here is the propaganda spigot turning on full force. Well, I personally know the guy that you know that got beat up and he said that the soldier actually tried to molest him. See how retarded you are to try and assume that a second hand story from a provably bias person is nothing other than a fairy tale when it comes to validating a point?

                              I heard it from a third person

                              LOOOOOL. Oh even better, now its a gotten to you third hand. Well THAT sure increases its reliability 20,000 fold. You ever hard of the game telephone? Well knowing that A) it came through you and B) that two people that actually tolerate you related it to you... well that just means its completely fabricated

                              who has nothing to do with him or the Afghan government.

                              Ohhh reeeallly, lets see what ACTUALLY happens when a reliable unbiased source reports what sort of things the monkey donkey dog washer government does to be people in Kandahar:

                              Meena Intizar, a Kandahar resident and poet, said she was forced to flee her home in April after Mr. Jajo's men entered her house one night without a warrant and injured her mother.
                              Who is this governmental mandated white knight in shining armor beating old women and poetesses?

                              KABUL—A suicide bombing Sunday in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar claimed the life of a prominent police commander who had been accused by local residents of involvement in serious human-rights violations.
                              Abdul Wadood Sarhadi Jajo, a police commander subordinate to Maj. Gen. Abdul Razzik, the province's powerful top cop, was killed in Kandahar's Police District 9

                              Suicide Bomber Kills Afghan Police Commander in Kandahar - WSJ

                              You don't see me randomly inserting that here and there just to emotionally blackmail people that I interact with in threads that have nothing to do with the matter.

                              There is that borderline personality disorder poking through again. Your thread originally decided to label any aspect of the resistance to an installed government as responsible for the death of a person yet you completely dismissed and glossed over the same exact (actually worse) action done on another student in another Afghan city by your heroes that generally are some greasy a-s-s pieces of trash.

                              So yeah, it'll keep coming because you make it completely amenable to being decimated by any basic evidence based analysis.


                              And you bull**** about my lack of virtue and what not. You are the ****er that starts talking about crotches

                              Uh, crotch is an anatomical region. In the English language its hardly considered crude. Especially when that article delineated that your drugged up thug rollers in the ANA go around grabbing kharej men in what would you prefer? Their private parts? Their private region? Their funny parts? Their ...? That was your attempt to detract from the discussion, which aint gonna happen. The bottom line? Your brave "warriors" are drugged up thugs, burglers, and perverts that are gayer than the most gay San Francisco gay

                              randomly in conversations that has nothing to do with it. You people become high and nightly on values only when it concerns destroying things.

                              You mean how your ANA/ANP folks destroy the lives of women that they rape in the fields? Oh yeah, sure, destroying an inanimate object suuuure compares.

                              Virtue means **** to your type in every other aspect of life.

                              You're the one offering up your .... as the beginning of the commentary. Virtue maybe synonymous with vice in your dialect?


                              x
                              Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 12-04-2016, 11:49 PM.
                              "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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