Engineering Economic Constraints

[BarakzaiAbdali]

A wonderful article demonstrating what I was warning about. One of my arguments for young Afghans pursuing medicine as their field is that it is what Milton Friedman referred to as "the last great guild." He was noting that they control supply and demand and mobility and hence salary. Engineering on the other hand has always been at the mercy of economic realities - and they have yet to control the supply demand spigot.

This superb article does some whistle blowing on how American engineers are at the mercy of the economic stakeholders instead of controlling their own destiny.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/5/silicon-valley-wagefixingcollusionstevejobs.html

Some superb quotes from the article which should serve as the warning I tried to offer to my young Pashtun brethren.

Last January, it was revealed that Steve Jobs had contacted Google’s Eric Schmidt, along with the managers of dozens of tech firms including Adobe, Intel, LucasFilm and Comcast, in order to fix industry wages. These executives were acting to protect their and their shareholders’ interests by refusing to employ each other’s companies’ engineers, a commodity in short supply in Silicon Valley’s tight labor market, where in 2012 engineers averaged over $100,000 a year. That is a lot to most Americans, but it was kept below what it could have been; the result for millions of tech workers was a telling lack of mobility in a growing industry.

Another choice quote of what these leading engineerings face:

But for Apple’s and Google’s engineers, who had little choice but to accept what they were offered, the situation could not have been so liberating; there’s a reason why this kind of collusion is illegal. Today’s tech workers could take a lesson from Jobs and the history of American corporate management he embodies on the power of coordination. If engineers seek a greater voice in their projects, in their firms and, especially, in their pay, the only people they can rely on will be themselves.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/5/silicon-valley-wagefixingcollusionstevejobs.html

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Kudus to Al Jazeera for having such in depth and provocative discussions that should be a for-warning to our young brethren.

The key to any pathway, at the end of the day, is to be your own boss and have maximum mobility without being at the mercy of Steve Jobs or other high level execs calling each other to limit the ability of their worker's maximum salary leverage.

This, alongside simple pathways to overseas recruitment show the disadvantage these brilliant people face.

Some might say medicine faces Obama - but even then, we have seen little impact on Physician wages and mobility despite the new Affordable healthcare act. Moreover, the lobbying power of the AMA ensured that huge hits in favor of physicians were taken against major impacts of that law. Engineers, to date, as the article points out, have no such organizational equivalent. IEEE and other organizations are merely scientific meeting bodies that help develop standards and dessiminate knowledge but they do not perform an equivalent role for engineers - including efforts to limit the supply demand spigot from the get go (college level) or making the PE (professional engineering license) mean something for more than other than civil engineers.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Here is the original Techtopus article detailing the wage fixing being done by the fortune 500 folks:

http://pando.com/2014/01/23/the-techtopus-how-silicon-valleys-most-celebrated-ceos-conspired-to-drive-down-100000-tech-engineers-wages/

[BarakzaiAbdali]

One of the commentators at the bottom astutely points out:

"No surprise that they did this. This was how they handled the cream of the crop because if you were over 40 and average there was no way you got even an interview at the list of companies colluding. The way they handled the rest was H1 visas allowing a sea of young new foreign engineers to dilute the competition under the guise that there was a shortage of qualified engineers even during the great recession with 10% unemployment. $100k+ doesn't go very far when you have a $3.5k mortgage to pay every month because a home sells for $700k in a safe neighborhood."

This is an impossible thing to do in American medicine where foreign grads must jump through a series of hoops just to land in some of the less competitive residencies such as family medicine and pediatrics.

Those particular fields are never really saturated with American grads in the first place - basically leaving the way for these folks from the outside to fill family med spots while the American grads are able to secure the more coveted specialties.

[Admin Khan]

A wonderful article demonstrating what I was warning about. One of my arguments for young Afghans pursuing medicine as their field is that it is what Milton Friedman referred to as "the last great guild." He was noting that they control supply and demand and mobility and hence salary. Engineering on the other hand has always been at the mercy of economic realities - and they have yet to control the supply demand spigot.

This superb article does some whistle blowing on how American engineers are at the mercy of the economic stakeholders instead of controlling their own destiny.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/5/silicon-valley-wagefixingcollusionstevejobs.html

Some superb quotes from the article which should serve as the warning I tried to offer to my young Pashtun brethren.



Another choice quote of what these leading engineerings face:



http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...stevejobs.html

Companies like Twitter, Facebook, go to great lengths to hire great talent. In fact, this applies to Silicon Valley, and is largely irrelevant in the tri-state area, and now this is has been exposed, salaries will only go higher.

For example, a $100,000 signing cash bonus just to join a competitor is not unheard of, and is actually quite common, Twitter offers $400-500K in stocks for a senior Engineer, hundreds of Engineers became millionaires in Facebook's IPO. In fact, there is a severe shortage of talented Engineers, and companies have committees to make sure their Engineers aren't leaving, and when an Engineer does threaten to leave for a competitor, he gets whatever he wants, a pay raise, promotion raise, firms have *committees* in place to try their best to make him stay. Evidence for my claim:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engineer-3-5-million-to-turn-down-facebook-offer/

http://gawker.com/5696434/googles-6-million-feminist-bonus-to-lady-engineer

"What’s Google offering? An immediate response for starters. They have put policies in place to ensure that an employee gets a response within 24 hours, we’ve confirmed from sources close to Google. Raises of 15% – 20% aren’t uncommon, as are new restricted stock grants ranging up to $500,000 in value. Employees are also often offered a different job, a move into a managerial role, etc."

The aforementioned happens a lot frequent than you think, or reported by the media.

A quick look at Glassdoor tells you that a solid Microsoftie, Googler, or Facebooker, who has been working for a few years rakes in $150-$200K per year, Juniper Networks pays 150-180K with a bachelors degree, and let's please not get into Financial Software Developers(it will make some Physicians regret what they do), like the ones that work for:

A)Two Sigma
B)Jane Street
C)5 Ring Capital(I think they only hire MIT people)
D)Various other hedge funds

I am speaking from experience, and not from skewed sources, although the evidence backs me up with the quality of life, perks, and happiness. I mean look, with life conditions that are far superior to medical doctors/Physicians, and with perks and benefits that Physicians drool over(I know, because I've seen and heard this from experience), it's embarrassing to compare the two professions. A doctor is a much more noble profession, but by no means is it better in what it offers. A doctor never enters the field for the benefits, if he does thinking he will live a better life, or a more comfortable life than an Engineer, than he lacks a brain, sadly. I respect Physicians cause they go to great lengths to keep the populace healthy, and aren't looking forward to a pay day, usually at least.

Like I said, and I tell the Afghan community, only enter the medicine field if you are passionate about it, otherwise in terms of:

A)Perks(Massage rooms, car mechanics, laundry, free food(25 cafes, world famous chefs, for free), SMART people(I work with some of the smartest people on earth, and the firm goes to great lengths to ensure it hires smart people. Do you have any clue how good it feels to have the conversations I have with my co-workers? it's an experience that is unparalleled, Alhamdulillah))
B)Benefits(Let's not even start)
C)Health care(we have Yale, Harvard, Penn, Physicians 24/7 on the clock for us, hired by the firm, that are located a floor away, so if I have a headache, I just walk upstairs)
D)Pay. A Software Engineer, at a top 20 company > being a Physician at a sweaty hospital, working ridiculous hours. We sleep well at night.


And frankly, this isn't my opinion, if you look at the most happiest employees, or the best companies to work for in the US, tech companies consistently rank at the top.

When a Physicians is busy paying off his debt, or graduating at the age of 33-35, Engineers are usually millionaires by then, own houses(we don't own a house, cause of Riba), if they are *as* hard working as a Physician is. Finding top Engineers is really tough BA, it's not as simple as you might think it is.

Go over the following:

http://www.businessinsider.com/be-a-software-programmer-not-a-doctor-2014-2

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/efkk45jkjf/top-10-companies-doing-the-most-to-make-their-employees-happier/

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/best-companies/

Best,

[Admin Khan]

Kudus to Al Jazeera for having such in depth and provocative discussions that should be a for-warning to our young brethren.

The key to any pathway, at the end of the day, is to be your own boss and have maximum mobility without being at the mercy of Steve Jobs or other high level execs calling each other to limit the ability of their worker's maximum salary leverage.

This, alongside simple pathways to overseas recruitment show the disadvantage these brilliant people face.

Some might say medicine faces Obama - but even then, we have seen little impact on Physician wages and mobility despite the new Affordable healthcare act. Moreover, the lobbying power of the AMA ensured that huge hits in favor of physicians were taken against major impacts of that law. Engineers, to date, as the article points out, have no such organizational equivalent. IEEE and other organizations are merely scientific meeting bodies that help develop standards and dessiminate knowledge but they do not perform an equivalent role for engineers - including efforts to limit the supply demand spigot from the get go (college level) or making the PE (professional engineering license) mean something for more than other than civil engineers.

A great point you bring up about lobbying. Truth be told, our algorithmic, and problem-solving skills is our biggest *organizational equivalent*, dare I say asset. Not every human can go through a 7-8 hour long, grueling interview, with a great brain, and come out successful, but when you do, your life is set, Alhamdulillah. To be fair, we simply don't need anyone representing us. Unhappy as a Facebooker? Interview at Google, or Microsoft, and then tell Facebook that you are leaving. The sky will drop with counter-offers. There are 1300 Tech companies in NYC alone, which is the 3rd largest tech scene(after MA, and CA).

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Admin if you get a chance, comment on Al Jazeera's website - I am sure having an insider comment would add to their discussion. I agree with some of your points above. That being said, I don't think it would hurt for engineers to organize to protect themselves a bit more and also start controlling things even at the college level. ABET was a start but it was not taken seriously as an example. Engineering in the US should be driven to be as selective in who they take and who they accredit as Germany... but I guess the issue there is that you have some brilliant self educated programmers (e.g. Ed Snowden, a high school grad, was said by NSA insiders to be one of the smartest minds to ever work there through Booz Allen).