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  • Doctor = Most miserable profession

    [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] your thoughts.

    How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession



    9 of 10 doctors discourage others from joining the profession, and 300 physicians commit suicide every year. When did it get this bad?





    By the end of this year, it’s estimated that 300 physicians will commit suicide. While depression amongst physicians is not new—a few years back, it was named the second-most suicidal occupation—the level of sheer unhappiness amongst physicians is on the rise.


    Simply put, being a doctor has become a miserable and humiliating undertaking. Indeed, many doctors feel that America has declared war on physicians—and both physicians and patients are the losers.
    Not surprisingly, many doctors want out. Medical students opt for high-paying specialties so they can retire as quickly as possible. Physician MBA programs—that promise doctors a way into management—are flourishing. The website known as the Drop-Out-Club—which hooks doctors up with jobs at hedge funds and venture capital firms—has a solid following. In fact, physicians are so bummed out that 9 out of 10 doctors would discourage anyone from entering the profession.
    It’s hard for anyone outside the profession to understand just how rotten the job has become—and what bad news that is for America’s health care system. Perhaps that’s why author Malcolm Gladwell recently implied that to fix the healthcare crisis, the public needs to understand what it’s like to be a physician. Imagine, for things to get better for patients, they need to empathize with physicians—that’s a tall order in our noxious and decidedly un-empathetic times.
    After all, the public sees ophthalmologists and radiologists making out like bandits and wonder why they should feel anything but scorn for such doctors—especially when Americans haven’t gotten a raise in decades. But being a primary care physician is not like being, say, a plastic surgeon—a profession that garners both respect and retirement savings. Given that primary care doctors do the work that no one else is willing to do, being a primary care physician is more like being a janitor—but without the social status or union protections.
    Unfortunately, things are only getting worse for most doctors, especially those who still accept health insurance. Just processing the insurance forms costs $58 for every patient encounter, according to Dr. Stephen Schimpff, an internist and former CEO of University of Maryland Medical Center who is writing a book about the crisis in primary care. To make ends meet, physicians have had to increase the number of patients they see. The end result is that the average face-to-face clinic visit lasts about 12 minutes.
    Neither patients nor doctors are happy about that. What worries many doctors, however, is that the Affordable Care Act has codified this broken system into law. While forcing everyone to buy health insurance, ACA might have mandated a uniform or streamlined claims procedure that would have gone a long way to improving access to care. As Malcolm Gladwell noted, “You don’t train someone for all of those years in [medicine]… and then have them run a claims processing operation for insurance companies.”
    To make ends meet, physicians have had to increase the number of patients they see. The end result is that the average face-to-face clinic visit lasts about 12 minutes.


    In fact, difficulty dealing with insurers has caused many physicians to close their practices and become employees. But for patients, seeing an employed doctor doesn’t give them more time with the doctor—since employed physicians also have high patient loads. “A panel size of 2,000 to 2,500 patients is too many,” says Dr. Schimpff. That’s the number of patients primary care doctors typically are forced to carry—and that means seeing 24 or more patients a day, and often these patients have 10 or more medical problems. As any seasoned physician knows, this is do-able, but it’s certainly not optimal.
    Most patients have experienced the rushed clinic visit—and that’s where the breakdown in good medical care starts. “Doctors who are in a rush, don’t have the time to listen,” says Dr. Schimpff. “Often, patients get referred to specialists when the problem can be solved in the office visit.” It’s true that specialist referrals are on the rise, but the time crunch also causes doctors to rely on guidelines instead of personally tailoring medical care. Unfortunately, mindlessly following guidelines can result in bad outcomes.
    Yet physicians have to go along, constantly trying to improve their “productivity” and patient satisfaction scores—or risk losing their jobs. Industry leaders are fixated on patient satisfaction, despite the fact that high scores are correlated with worse outcomes and higher costs. Indeed, trying to please whatever patient comes along destroys the integrity of our work. It’s a fact that doctors acquiesce to patient demands—for narcotics, X-rays, doctor’s notes—despite what survey advocates claim. And now that Medicare payments will be tied to patient satisfaction—this problem will get worse. Doctors need to have the ability to say no. If not, when patients go to see the doctor, they won’t actually have a physician—they’ll have a hostage.
    But the primary care doctor doesn’t have the political power to say no to anything—so the “to-do” list continues to lengthen. A stunning and unmanageable number of forms—often illegible—show up daily on a physician’s desk needing to be signed. Reams of lab results, refill requests, emails, and callbacks pop up continually on the computer screen. Calls to plead with insurance companies are peppered throughout the day. Every decision carries with it an implied threat of malpractice litigation. Failing to attend to these things brings prompt disciplining or patient complaint. And mercilessly, all of these tasks have to be done on the exhausted doctor’s personal time.
    Almost comically, the response of medical leadership—their solution— is to call for more physician testing. In fact, the American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM)—in its own act of hostage-taking—has decided that in addition to being tested every ten years, doctors must comply with new, costly, "two year milestones." For many physicians, if they don't comply be the end of this month, the ABIM will advertise the doctor's "lack of compliance" on their website.

    In an era when nurse practitioners and physician assistants have shown that they can provide excellent primary care, it’s nonsensical to raise the barriers for physicians to participate. In an era when you can call up guidelines on your smartphone, demanding more physician testing is a ludicrous and self-serving response.
    It is tone deaf. It is punitive. It is wrong. And practicing doctors can’t do a damn thing about it. No wonder doctors are suicidal. No wonder young doctors want nothing to do with primary care.
    But what is a bit of a wonder is how things got this bad.

    Certainly, the relentlessly negative press coverage of physicians sets the tone. “There’s a media narrative that blames physicians for things the doctor has no control over,” says Kevin Pho, MD, an internist with a popular blog where physicians often vent their frustrations. Indeed, in the popular press recently doctors have been held responsible for everything from the wheelchair-unfriendly furniture to lab fees for pap smears.
    The meme is that doctors are getting away with something and need constant training, watching and regulating. With this in mind, it’s almost a reflex for policy makers to pile on the regulations. Regulating the physician is an easy sell because it is a fantasy—a Freudian fever dream—the wish to diminish, punish and control a disappointing parent, give him a report card, and tell him to wash his hands.
    To be sure many people with good intentions are working toward solving the healthcare crisis. But the answers they’ve come up with are driving up costs and driving out doctors. Maybe it’s too much to ask for empathy, and maybe physician lives don’t matter to most people.
    But for America’s health to be safeguarded, the wellbeing of America’s caretakers is going to have to start mattering to someone.

    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

  • #2
    During the study,the med student might suggest others to not join though the ratio is not this high.

    A extremely labourous study,anyone not part of med education can't even imagine how much we study for our exams,followed by disappointed results aswell

    I am not sure about the west since i know almost every sort of education has importance in the west but in countries like Pakistan,India or Afghanistan,medicine is the best profession to choose.

    Many doctors from Pakistan opt for Afghanistan because of higher pay
    "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
      During the study,the med student might suggest others to not join though the ratio is not this high.

      A extremely labourous study,anyone not part of med education can't even imagine how much we study for our exams,followed by disappointed results aswell

      I am not sure about the west since i know almost every sort of education has importance in the west but in countries like Pakistan,India or Afghanistan,medicine is the best profession to choose.

      Many doctors from Pakistan opt for Afghanistan because of higher pay
      Wrora, you don't realize that it's easier in AFPAK, or Europe to become a doctor than in the US, where you generally have to complete a 4 year undergraduate degree first, then go to medical school for another 4 years, and I think there are a couple of more years after that as well. The amount of debt is around $300K-500K, and interest on top of it, which is an exponential function.
      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
        Wrora, you don't realize that it's easier in AFPAK, or Europe to become a doctor than in the US, where you generally have to complete a 4 year undergraduate degree first, then go to medical school for another 4 years, and I think there are a couple of more years after that as well. The amount of debt is around $300K-500K, and interest on top of it, which is an exponential function.
        the expense isn't that bad.i have two cousins, one with a full ride with free dorming attending NYU pre-med, and another one with a free ride and dorming attending pre-med stonybrook.

        it depends how well you did in HS,

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by کیش View Post
          the expense isn't that bad.i have two cousins, one with a full ride with free dorming attending NYU pre-med, and another one with a free ride and dorming attending pre-med stonybrook.

          it depends how well you did in HS,
          Yeah, but they aren't in medical school yet. They are ordinary undergraduates. Everyone enters Stony Brook Pre-med, but at time of graduation, they end up majoring as something else. You know that.
          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
            Yeah, but they aren't in medical school yet. They are ordinary undergraduates. Everyone enters Stony Brook Pre-med, but at time of graduation, they end up majoring as something else. You know that.
            oh i know.

            my female cousin who attends NYU is killing it with her grades. is her passions and our aunt is also a doctor so she mentors her.

            my male cousin who attends stonybrook, im not sure of his grade. i tried my best, to get him to major in Computer science at Stonybrook with no avail.

            my other cousin did pre-med, but he changed his major to computer science. i like to take credit for him to changing it to that since he is not smart like that, but doesn't give me any credit :/

            Comment


            • #7
              there are doctors and then there are dangters. doctors are individuals who grew up wanting to be doctors and reached their goal eventually in life. dangters are pakistanies, indians and afghans who were traumatized, pressurized, threatened, forced and beaten by their parents to become doctors. because the field of medicine requires a great amount of commitment, these individuals have been isolated from the rest of the world and the very life they have been leading of their own. they will tell you in detail of all the diseases discovered out there as well as sizes and shapes of the valves of one's heart but beyond that, they don't know anything else about much of the rest of life. they have been alienated from concepts such as other forms of human interaction, a sense of humor or a taste or eye for art, music or literature. because they are miserable beings themselves, they bore others by going out of their way to give them reality checks on life regardless of how often you remind them not to. also , they tend to behave as if humanity owes them something for the careers they have chosen for themselves or allowed others to choose for them.
              i have yet to come across an afghan doctor.


              "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





              Comment


              • #8
                I wonder what our pf scholar/doctor barakzai thinks about this article.
                There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                Sayyid Qutb

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                  Wrora, you don't realize that it's easier in AFPAK, or Europe to become a doctor than in the US, where you generally have to complete a 4 year undergraduate degree first, then go to medical school for another 4 years, and I think there are a couple of more years after that as well. The amount of debt is around $300K-500K, and interest on top of it, which is an exponential function.
                  I believe it is almost same every where

                  I know In india and Pakistan it takes 5years to get MBBS and than 1year Housejob.For speciality you again will have to pass the FCPS/Specialty test and to attend 3days per week classes in hospital for 4-5years

                  In USA it takes about 12years(4+1+4+3)
                  in Pakistan/Afghan/India it takes 11years(5+1+5)

                  The only difference is getting the residency though i agree in America or in the west it is way too much expensive to pay the expenses of medical school.
                  "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
                    there are doctors and then there are dangters. doctors are individuals who grew up wanting to be doctors and reached their goal eventually in life. dangters are pakistanies, indians and afghans who were traumatized, pressurized, threatened, forced and beaten by their parents to become doctors. because the field of medicine requires a great amount of commitment, these individuals have been isolated from the rest of the world and the very life they have been leading of their own. they will tell you in detail of all the diseases discovered out there as well as sizes and shapes of the valves of one's heart but beyond that, they don't know anything else about much of the rest of life. they have been alienated from concepts such as other forms of human interaction, a sense of humor or a taste or eye for art, music or literature. because they are miserable beings themselves, they bore others by going out of their way to give them reality checks on life regardless of how often you remind them not to. also , they tend to behave as if humanity owes them something for the careers they have chosen for themselves or allowed others to choose for them.
                    i have yet to come across an afghan doctor.


                    I've met many such people from various countries....
                    Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
                    Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

                    Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
                    Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                    Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
                    Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In Indo-Afg-Pak, everyone wants to become a doctor, which is not a healthy trend. There should long have been diversification of the labor market in terms of demand for skills and jobs, which of course also depends on the overall shape of economy and level of human development achieved by these countries.

                      I believe what the developing countries need is more engineers and graduates and specialists of pure and applied sciences.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Toramana View Post
                        In Indo-Afg-Pak, everyone wants to become a doctor, which is not a healthy trend. There should long have been diversification of the labor market in terms of demand for skills and jobs, which of course also depends on the overall shape of economy and level of human development achieved by these countries.

                        I believe what the developing countries need is more engineers and graduates and specialists of pure and applied sciences.
                        Unless someone in the US/Canada/Europe has a full ride to be a doctor, I strongly and heavily discourage it, unless it is there *absolute* passion, and they have in fact shadowed a doctor to affirm their aforementioned belief.

                        I have seen far too many Afghan families WRECKED in debt because their *children* wanted to be a doctor, they joined medical school(already accumulated hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt), and later changed their minds. No back up plan what so ever.

                        I also discourage folks from joining it because of the amount of debt you take on to complete it. If they put a teeney-tiney effort and get an Engineering degree, and then join a top 10 tech firm, they can make more than what a doctor makes on average, and live a far, far better life; almost incomparable -- most tech firms for example employs doctors to be around their Engineers just so if they want to see a doctor, they don't have to leave their office, or schedule an appointment. Better yet, create a start up like WhatsApp, and be a billion in your 30's.

                        Personally, I suggest the Pashtun Youth, unless it is their ABSOLUTE passion(since there is a dire need for doctors back home), to avoid it if they DO NOT have the financial backings to support their families while they take up this arduous task.
                        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Youngsters in my family bright straight A+ graders,who otherwise also were not very inclined to medical studies, were greatly repelled when they knew they would have to get an undergrad degree to eventually enroll in a medical school and on top of the prolonged time it would take to get a medical degree, the study would also have to incur heavy debt.

                          I think it is time we put an end to this utter craziness and understand that all skills and professions are good and one should choose the one in which one can perform the best and can ultimately have happy and less stressful life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A lot of afghans are engineers as well (like my father) just like most of them want to become doctors. I say stop riding the bandwagon and do what YOU want, not what others tell you to do just because it has "good pay." You won't own a big house or an expensive car with these jobs, unless your famous. Most Afghans i've talked to didn't originally want to pursue an engineering degree or a medical degree and said they were told by their parents to pursue these ventures

                            I say screw both; we need more Afghan businessmen.
                            Last edited by Kushan Prince; 04-16-2014, 06:04 PM.
                            "Revenge is a dish best served cold".

                            -Old Pashtun proverb




                            "My Pashtun Pride i will not hide!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kushan Prince View Post
                              A lot of afghans are engineers as well (like my father) just like most of them want to become doctors. I say stop riding the bandwagon and do what YOU want, not what others tell you to do just because it has "good pay." You won't own a big house or an expensive car with these jobs, unless your famous. Most Afghans i've talked to didn't originally want to pursue an engineering degree or a medical degree and said they were told by their parents to pursue these ventures

                              I say screw both; we need more Afghan businessmen.
                              every afghan want to have an own business lol
                              faye's chauffeur

                              Pashton's girlfriend

                              I'm a Pashtun Princes


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