Debate: Is language being affected by new conventions of communication?

[*Mahzala*]

Let's discuss something different.

Given that we are living through an age of massive change the language - the age of email, texting, Twitter, Facebook and more - should we still be bothered about old-fashioned conventions of punctuations, grammar or style?

[*Mahzala*]

It is an open-ended question by the way ...

[Roshina]

Let's discuss something different.

Given that we are living through an age of massive change the language - the age of email, texting, Twitter, Facebook and more - should we still be bothered about old-fashioned conventions of punctuations, grammar or style?

By God, yes! Incorrect grammar is SO sad to see! I know it's not all that wise, but I pay so much more attention to people who can write well in public. I can read their posts over and over and over and over. A badly written one, oh God no! I only skim through it :S

I'm not asking for something super well thought-out or well-written; just a good use of grammar, geez.

Now, if they have a reason - like not knowing English well - then that's a whole different story, and I don't at all mind it.

My nephew taught me what "OMG" stands for. It was a scary day for me, I tell you. I also can't stand it when he (or anyone else) writes "u" instead of "you" or "r" instead of "are." If they're in a hurry, it's fine ... but in public posts? Ugh.

[Iqra]

I am very guilty of this.

I shall try to improve, InshaAllah.

=)

[*Mahzala*]

Afghanmeansdanger: Superb post. You've addressed quite a lot in a few words, yet each point can be elaborated a great deal. Either way, I liked it.

I'll be here and there in this thread, but for now, I will (to answer Shazadgey's question) say that language plays a crucial role in many fields such as the workforce, daily conversation exchanges, the media and even a shopping outing. The way things are written makes a big difference and impact on the message it conveys. Our language organizes thoughts into sentences and like Afghanmeansdanger said, it can suggest our level of education and professionalism. Writing made up of only such little sentences would quickly grow monotonous and would also sound like it had been written by someone without much language experience. My niece often texts me and I am basically sitting their attempting to crack a code. It looks something like this (from memory, how I wish I had a real message from her in my inbox now):

hheyy mes!! =D Hows uuuu? anD the familyyyy? XD =) Miss youzzz a lot :$ =( Salaamzzz to aLL from moiiiiii XD =D ... love youzzz a lotzzzz byzzzz XD =D

When I asked her why she writes like that, she was quick to answer, however, it was not quite true. She said because I talk like that. Now that had me thinking. When we drop base words or modify them we are left with something entirely different.
The result is almost nonsense. Our minds want to process the data as a sentence, but it won't fit. The base elements or grammar and punctuation are missing.

Or is it as simple as saying a perfectionist has it the hard way?

[Iqra]

*delete*

[tor_khan]

There are three parts to this, I guess:

1. Language changes by the people who use it.
2. Not all people like all the changes.
3. Academic and formal writing in is not yet about to give way to text messaging writing conventions.

I posted some thoughts on this on my blog in Feb 2009 - http://torkhan.blogspot.com/2009/03/2b-or-not-2b.html

[*Mahzala*]

AmrikayayPashtun: I like that! It's a phase! Nice. I wasn't suggesting that she doesn't do it or anything of the sort, but if it gets to the point where one talks like that, I find that low. And that is why I have never had a liking for the Australian accent or style of talking. I find it very low-life if I can say. Country, outback, bush talk I think of it. Of course, the professionals, educators and academics are different but to a certain extent they also argue this case. Yes, though, I have seen the numerals being part of a sentence, though I don't know the symbolism behind them, but it spoils good writing I think.

So are these new conventions affecting our old styles of language?

[Iqra]

Taking the case of your niece, I'd say it could become a bad habit khuday na karda.

Lets say she often uses the different forms of communication you mentioned, it'd be something she is used to, correct? And then 5 years later if she decides she doesn't like the fact that she has incorporated such ways of communicating, it'd be pretty hard to change her ways. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but hard. Over the 5 years she might have forgotten a lot of rules, or whenever she tries to attempt formal writing, she might not be as quick as she once was forming structured sentences.

[Admin Khan]

One of the main reasons for this is peer pressure. When I was in high school years ago, It was the norm and custom to type capitalized with lowecase I's,(Hi HOW iS LiFE EVERYTHiNG OK?)Obviously there were also other little things that I now do not remember. However, I used to always question it, But believe me or not. I was the alien, Gangs have a huge influence over this as well, like many have already pointed out.

To be honest with you, I am not that picky when it comes to typos and errors as long as I get the point, I have no problem. I wouldn't be making people re-write an entire sentence just because it does not fit my standards. However, If I realize its being done on purpose, I would simply ignore it. If someone from Peshawar is attempting to carry a conversation with me, and I realize he has like 50 spelling mistakes. I wouldn't even bother bringing it to his attention to make him feel bad. Why? Cause his intentions are clean and good. He wants to carry a conversation with me, lacks the skills yet he is still trying. Now on the other hand, If the person is born and raised in the USA or any English speaking country and Has graduated from high school, yet the excuse is, "I talk like that" We have a problem on hand and I consider it to be childish, immature and unaccceptable. But believe me, I had a few relatives who typed just like that so we are on the same boat, but now if we fast-forward a couple of years, they have realized the cons of it and actually regret it. Sometimes, I joke around and when I show them how they used to type, They blush and try to change the topic.

So to further conclude my stance, I would say,
"Innamal amulu binniyat", "Actions are judged by intentions"

[*Mahzala*]

Taking the case of your niece, I'd say it could become a bad habit khuday na karda.

Lets say she often uses the different forms of communication you mentioned, it'd be something she is used to, correct? And then 5 years later if she decides she doesn't like the fact that she has incorporated such ways of communicating, it'd be pretty hard to change her ways. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but hard. Over the 5 years she might have forgotten a lot of rules, or whenever she tries to attempt formal writing, she might not be as quick as she once was forming structured sentences.

I agree. It would indeed be hard to change. I look back at the days in school when we did English and Literature and how well we scored in them. There was no or very little texting, very few social networking sites (mySpace was afar as it went at the time) and as friends besides our verbal communcation, if we did communicate it was through letters, well written ones. I see my youngsters now, and they don't know where to put a full stop or a comma. When I edit their work, though it is not the job of an editor to do so, I literally rewrite the entire piece of work. So you are absolutely right when you say attempting formal and academic writing becomes a challenge for those who practice such forms of writing.

[*Mahzala*]

Admin Khan: No, neither would I make someone rewrite something for me to suit my standards, because, really what are my standards? I don't consider them above any other. Using my niece's example was to suggest the way we text (also an example) and (if it does) how it affects the academic expectations. Now, most universities, alongside the cut-off entry mark, require what they call English Language Competence (ELC) which basically means that if your raw mark before or after final school year exams meets the university requirement but your ELC doesn't, you have no chance of getting in, unless you sit another examination. In organisations (workforce), the line that separates ones writing is a very powerful one.

On a more personal level, I am the same. I look at some old pieces of writing and wonder where my head was when I wrote those things ... more so, the way I wrote them makes me laugh.

[*Mahzala*]

There are three parts to this, I guess:

1. Language changes by the people who use it.
2. Not all people like all the changes.
3. Academic and formal writing in is not yet about to give way to text messaging writing conventions.

I posted some thoughts on this on my blog in Feb 2009 - http://torkhan.blogspot.com/2009/03/2b-or-not-2b.html

In the words of an educator ...

Addressing your third point, I would agree. Although visual components have become a powerful medium of communication, the importance of writing has not (yet?) diminished. At times, the sense of creativity is compromised, but in order to meet certain requirements, say in a workforce, one has to be aware of the way in which writers and writing is filtered. For perfectionists of course, good is never good enough. They're always correcting your definition of a paragraph. My literature teacher was like this, and I think she has passed it down to me.

[tor_khan]

Language is in a constant state of change - though some languages are more protected than others - French is a case in point. English, isn't protected the same way, which perhaps explains how (colonialism aside), it has gone international.

I'll share something I learnt* at a spelling convention. Take the example of a compound words (words that have more than one stem).

e.g. guide/line, fire/man, etc.

Consider the rules when talking about relatives

Do we hyphenate or don't we? e.g. grand-father, grand-mother, grand-son?

Whether we choose to hyphenate or not has been decided, interestingly by the greeting cards industry - e.g. grandfather, grandmother, grandson etc.. A compound word whilst having two stems should retain the spellings of the two stem words. Works perfectly in the examples above, but look at this:

grand-daughter, grand-dad

Remove the hyphen and you have granddaughter and granddad, with double consonants in the middle that begin to look odd. On greetings cards grand-daughter remains (to my knowlegde) hyphenated, whereas the spelling for the latter granddad has changed - grandad.

Interesting (me thinks!)

*learned if you spell it in American!

[*Mahzala*]

Tor_Khan: Very interesting (me thinks too!)

I think it also depends on every organisatons 'house style'.