If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai
For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."
The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!
In a medical sense, I have never encountered a psychiatric disease resembling demonic possession as we know it through modern era filmography (through my limited exposure in 2 months of psychiatry as a medical student and with the peripheral exposure as an internal medicine resident) that was not controlled with anti psychotic medications.
There are behavioral disorders that require certain criteria in order for someone to carry an axis label... and these respond to various psychotherapeutic approaches.
So that is my medical two cents on the differential diagnosis for someone claiming that they are possessed or that they saw angels or God. I would consider admitting them or referring them for a manic episode as one of the trademarks of mania is when an individual claims to speak directly to the divine amongst other clinical signs and symptoms.
Separately, in a spiritual sense, based on the textual and scriptural knowledge that I have of Islamic theology (which is, admittedly limited and needs much more advancement), the Islamic concept of possession in the Quran appears to not conform to the New Testament concept. In the New Testament Christ drives out demons, including Legion. The Quranic concept on the other hand appears to indicate that all mankind is subject to having actions that are catalyzed by Iblis (Diabolis, or Lucifer, Satan, or whatever other name people give him) via his ability to whisper temptation to man. The biblical new testament appears to confirm this role for Satan in the interaction that Christ and him have in during the temptation period.
So in the Islamic realm, when a man committs wrong and rationalized his way there, one might say that the rationalization he constructed to get there was a form of Satanic suggestion. This appears to be a contrast to the sin that a man may committ without Satanic suggestion. The latter form of sin appears to be directly referred to the actions of the nafs (man's own animal inner nature).
For instance: If I am about to cheat on a test, and I feel a pang of guilt that tells me this is wrong, but then I rationalize said action the latter part may be referred to as the whisperings of Iblis. The Quran clarifies that any obedience to the whispering is still a decision and an onus that rests on man.
Spiritually, man is directed to seek refuge in God from Satan and there is no evidence intra Quranic text of any intermediary that is needed. Man is directly spoken to by God and given explicit direction on how to deal with God's other creations. The Quranic ayaah itself instructs man on how to deal with this specific djinn (Iblis): Audhoo billahi mina ashaaythaan ir rajeem "I seek refuge in God from Satan the rejected."
In regard to hadith literature discussions... from what I recall from reading of Bukhari years ago, the mu'awidathaayn (ie the last two chapters of the Quran) were revealed in the context of the Prophet being afflicted by a local practitioner of black magic. He demonstrated no signs of possession as we know it from movies like the Exorcist, but rather became very ill physically until a comb was recovered with his hair wound around it and was dealt with. The 2 chapters were revealed to the Prophet and appear to advocate that man need not fear such tricks and should seek refuge in God.
In my humble opinion the concept of baptism is the biblical polar opposite of demonic possession if one reads the New Testament.
The Quran rebukes the Christian regarding the concept of Baptism and says to him: "Who can baptize better than God?" So by the same token, man may have no need to seek an exorcist... if God himself is rebuking the idea that some intermediary could never baptize a man into faith... why would anyone be able to clear djinn via an intermediary when the Quranic text already provides solace and guidance to man regarding this?
Moreover, if Satan was chief amongst the djinns, hence his closeness to the angels and to God during the creation story, and his limits appear to be the ability to whisper suggestions, as he did to our primordial father and mother (Adam and Eve)... why would one the lesser demons have an ability to control muscular actions and behavior continuously, of any human being?
I think bottom line, in the Islamic theology, the Quranic text specifically, the burden of sin is placed directly at the door step of man, with a close link of forgiveness and remediation directly to the One God. Djinn and Satan appear to have an ability to suggest... but they are derided as shameful beings with certain limits. The closest the Quran comes to commenting on possession in other senses is when it mocks the accusations of the Meccans against the Prophet where they called him "possessed." That doesnt mean it necessarily endorses the Meccan concept of what possession means though.
In various hadith literature, Solomen's command over djinns (spirits/demons) is clarified and certain supernatural powers are attributed to various djinns (afreets). But I think even there, the discussion of possession is limited, and rather, Solomon has power over djinns.
There are other stories of the Companions I recall from my youth, such as Khalid bin Walid encountering the spirit when he went to tear down one of the polytheist temples. But in general, if such an issue were paramount why do we not ever hear of Abu Bakr, Umar, ibn masud, Zayd ibn Thabit, Moad bin Jabal, or Ayesha commenting on performing exorcism?
However, in summary Admin Khan, medically I never have possession in my differential diagnosis, ever.
In regard to the spiritual concept of possession and the need for exorcism, I dont see evidence in the Quranic text for the hollywood or modern American equivalent definition of what we mean by that term.
I know that the Pashtun lore of the hills appears to tilt towards some element of a belief in spiritual possessions by Piryaan Mamagaan. During my time in our lands as a child, I heard many a colorful story of dancing candles and children in need for exorcism by a local women called a "babo."
The interesting thing about Pashtun mythology in the villages, though I dont think there has ever been a collection done of such stories (maybe we can collect our first volume here on PF), is that what I encountered both in Kandahar province and hundreds of miles away across the border in Momand villages closely resembled eachother.
The Pashtun description of Piryaan were, on both sides of the border:
A) They resemble human beings
B) Their eyes are long and are verticle instead of horizontal
C) Their feet are turned around so that the heel is toward the front.
D) They can possess people
E) They wait under trees and shrubs and in various abandoned places
F) They can believe and disbelieve (this appears to come from Islamic theology as if the Piryaan are considered by Pashtuns to be djinns then the Quran appears to indicate that djinn also have free will).
I know these legends have persisted; I was treating a Jalalabadi refugee who thought his seizure disorder derived from possession by a piryaan. I asked him why he felt this way and he said that his mother told him that she saw the Piryaan sit on his head as a child. However, when I delved further into the story, he had suffered a traumatic blow to the head during the Russian War era and I am certain that the traumatic injury lead to a nidus or focus for seizure initiation.
So, in summary, I do not mix medicine and the modern American notion or even perhaps the Pashtun notions of demonic possession. Spiritually, I defined what I think djinns are capable of as per the Quranic text above. I want to affirm that I would and have never allowed for possession to enter into my medical concept of care and nor do I endorse putting that in the differential diagnosis.
A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai
For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."
The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!
Comment