Why the West has come to dominate the East

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

The British historian, Niall Ferguson, explores six aspects in which the West, from the 15th century onwards, began overtaking the rest of the world, especially the Islamic Middle-East and China, the traditional scientific civilizations of the world.

He discusses how the West had started applying modern science, modern techniques of governance, modern economic systems and the work ethnic (among other things) since the 16th and 17th centuries onwards and how only a bunch of often-warring European states ended up becoming the rulers of the world by the Second World War.

He also talks about the Ottoman decline and even I was surprised to find out that from 1483 to 1720, the Ottomans had banned all printed books and anyone caught reading one would be executed. It's no wonder that they missed out on the enlightenment and the modern age of science and reason.


You can find all the episodes here. Or on any other p2p sharing website. It's an interesting watch.

[graveyardofempires]

load of BS

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

load of BS

This is also a lot of BS:

World Map 1800:






World Map 1919:

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/london-geographical-institute_the-peoples-atlas_1920_the-world-colonial-powers-in-1919_3012_3992_600.jpg

By 1919, the only near-eastern/Muslim states that were not colonized by Europe were Iran and half of Afghanistan. In 1941, even Iran was occupied by the Allied powers.

Yeah but then again, facts are figures - they're all BS.

[graveyardofempires]

This is also a lot of BS:

World Map 1800:






World Map 1919:

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/lon...2_3992_600.jpg




By 1919, the only near-eastern/Muslim states that were not colonized by Europe were Iran and half of Afghanistan. In 1941, even Iran was occupied by the Allied powers.

Yeah but then again, facts are figures - they're all BS.

in this map they call Ottoman Empire as Turkey.

the BS is this
West had started applying modern science, modern techniques of governance, modern economic systems and the work ethnic (among other things) since the 16th and 17th centuries onwards and how only a bunch of often-warring European states ended up becoming the rulers of the world by the Second World War.

the Ottomans had banned all printed books and anyone caught reading one would be executed. It's no wonder that they missed out on the enlightenment and the modern age of science and reason.


Offcourse you knew it is BS but hey......................

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

in this map they call Ottoman Empire as Turkey.

the BS is this
West had started applying modern science, modern techniques of governance, modern economic systems and the work ethnic (among other things) since the 16th and 17th centuries onwards and how only a bunch of often-warring European states ended up becoming the rulers of the world by the Second World War.

the Ottomans had banned all printed books and anyone caught reading one would be executed. It's no wonder that they missed out on the enlightenment and the modern age of science and reason.


Offcourse you knew it is BS but hey......................

Did you click on the 1919 map?

In that map, the Ottoman Empire, which was referred to as Turkey, doesn't exist. My purpose of posting both the maps was to show how, within a hundred years, even the Ottoman Empire was reduced to merely Anatolia.

By the way, it is a historical fact that Bayezid II banned all printed books in 1483 and that ban remained intact until 1720.

What, according to you, propelled the western European powers to end up controlling the entire planet by the 20th century?

So I don't really understand what you find suspect here.

[al-arab]

Did you click on the 1919 map?

In that map, the Ottoman Empire, which was referred to as Turkey, doesn't exist. My purpose of posting both the maps was to show how, within a hundred years, even the Ottoman Empire was reduced to merely Anatolia.

By the way, it is a historical fact that Bayezid II banned all printed books in 1483 and that ban remained intact until 1720.

What, according to you, propelled the western European powers to end up controlling the entire planet by the 20th century?

So I don't really understand what you find suspect here.

All what the west learned came from the east until 200-150 years ago where they became rich themselves because of this I mention now:

Genocide on native Americans, hundreds of bloody wars, slave trade, robbery of oil, gold, diamonds etc. from foreign lands etc. If you regard those things like prosperity then you might as well stop posting propaganda.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

All what the west learned came from the east until 200-150 years ago where they became rich themselves because of this I mention now:

Genocide on native Americans, hundreds of bloody wars, slave trade, robbery of oil, gold, diamonds etc. from foreign lands etc. If you regard those things like prosperity then you might as well stop posting propaganda.

You misinterpret my intention. This isn't a thread aimed at glorying the West and its colonial exploits.

The aim of the documentary-series I posted here is to find out how a group of small European states gained enough power to occupy far-away lands and commit genocide on native Americans, fight hundreds of bloody wars, dominate the slave trade, rob oil, gold, diamonds etc. from foreign lands etc.

How did they find themselves in such positions of power? How did their technology so quickly over-take the rest of the world? How and why did the near-eastern civilizations decline so drastically? Why did the Ottoman Empire stagnate into nothingness after 1683? Why is Western technology still so superior to eastern technology? Why did Israel apply for 9,000 patents in 2010 while Iran only applied for 50?

[al-arab]

You misinterpret my intention. This isn't a thread aimed at glorying the West and its colonial exploits.

The aim of the documentary-series I posted here is to find out how a group of small European states gained enough power to occupy far-away lands and commit genocide on native Americans, fight hundreds of bloody wars, dominate the slave trade, rob oil, gold, diamonds etc. from foreign lands etc.

How did they find themselves in such positions of power? How did their technology so quickly over-take the rest of the world? How and why did the near-eastern civilizations decline so drastically? Why did the Ottoman Empire stagnate into nothingness after 1683? Why is Western technology still so superior to eastern technology? Why did Israel apply for 9,000 patents in 2010 while Iran only applied for 50?

Because of the above mentioned reasons. Money and assets equals power and power equals more "science/development" in order to keep consilidating the power. Very simple.

The world changed drastically in the last 200 years mainly because of the industrial revolution. Why this phenomenon could even happen in west europe was not because they were more clever than anyone else, no, but because they had the ressources (because of the slave trade, colonialism, robbery of oil, gold and diamonds etc.) to devolope. Since then they have controlled all the major inventions and distrituted them.

Also the colonialism made a lot of countries weak and dependent of the west. That is why there is a difference in wealth among the west and east but China etc. are catching up.

And as everyone knows poverty creates problems with instability and lack of development.

[Karachi]

west played the rule "divide and conquer" and unfortunately muslims are falling in to their trap even to this day.

[faye]

levanaye, with this so called 'modern age of science and reason' has come the polluting of our planet with the inventions of these 'reasoning scientists'. also we now have the inventions of nuclear bombs and depleted uranium etc, which some genuinely moral scientists have informed us, is killing the earth and it's inhabitants. please, how are these things, resonable?

[Ghundal]

The West was once powerful

The West is over though and can not challenge the East with China on the rise

As the Ottomans fell, the West has already fallen

China can not be challenged by the West

[thegood]

Lewanay Zalmay, good thread. I think Westerners has dominated the East because of their rationalism, creativity, pursuit of knowledge, scientific and technological achievements, and their over-all moral superiority over the rest.

Although, Chinese are making some material progress, they will never come closer to matching Western moral and aesthetical standards. Chinese can be good engineers but not theoritians, philosophers, thinkers, etc. as Westerners have been. Their values will never dominate the world as Western values have.

[al-arab]

Lewanay Zalmay, good thread. I think Westerners has dominated the East because of their rationalism, creativity, pursuit of knowledge, scientific and technological achievements, and their over-all moral superiority over the rest.

Although, Chinese are making some material progress, they will never come closer to matching Western moral and aesthetical standards. Chinese can be good engineers but not theoritians, philosophers, thinkers, etc. as Westerners have been. Their values will never dominate the world as Western values have.

Maybe you should ask yourself whether they actually do dominate the East anymore? I don't think that is truth. But good try to provoke us Muslims yet again.

Are you even a Pashtun? Or just a troll? You remind me of Soldat-Communist who suddenly disappeared.

Everything the West has learned they have learnt from the East part from the last 150 years (mostly inventions).

Maybe you should read about Mesopotamia, Sumer, Babylon culture, Chinese, Arab, Japanese, Persian, Indian, South/Central Asian etc.

You are clearly deluded.

There is other things in life than coca-cola and mcdonalds and stupid hollywood propaganda movies.

[thegood]

Maybe you should ask yourself whether they actually do dominate the East anymore? I don't think that is truth. But good try to provoke us Muslims yet again.

Are you even a Pashtun? Or just a troll? You remind me of Soldat-Communist who suddenly disappeared.

Everything the West has learned they have learnt from the East part from the last 150 years (mostly inventions).

Maybe you should read about Mesopotamia, Sumer, Babylon culture, Chinese, Arab, Japanese, Persian, Indian, South/Central Asian etc.

You are clearly deluded.

There is other things in life than coca-cola and mcdonalds and stupid hollywood propaganda movies.

In Pashto, we say "pa prado ghwalo poskai achai" i.e., "farting on some other persons ****". Muslims in general and Arabs in particular couldn't give any thing of significant importance to the rest of the world except some knowledge in bits and pieces. The only thing medieval Isam could do was translation of Greek knowledge and writing explanation of the works of Greek philosophers.

If it weren't for Greek, Westerners, etc., we would be grazing camels in the deserts of Arabia instead of using this forum and Internet. An ideoogy which shuns all poetry, art, etc. even laughter from life cannot be caled a creative ideology.

The current Saud has 30 wives. But so also has every other Arab at least 5 wives.

[al-arab]

In Pashto, we say "pa prado ghwalo poskai achai" i.e., "farting on some other persons ****". Muslims in general and Arabs in particular couldn't give any thing of significant importance to the rest of the world except some knowledge in bits and pieces. The only thing medieval Isam could do was translation of Greek knowledge and writing explanation of the works of Greek philosophers.

If it weren't for Greek, Westerners, etc., we would be grazing camels in the deserts of Arabia instead of using this forum and Internet. An ideoogy which shuns all poetry, art, etc. even laughter from life cannot be caled a creative ideology.

The current Saud has 30 wives. But so also has every other Arab at least 5 wives.

Stop writing nonsense, kafir.

The oldest civilization in the world is the Iraqi one (Sumerian, Mesopotamia and Babylon).

Open a book and read about the Golden Age in Islam when the Caliph ruled from Baghdad. Also read about which inventions Arabs and Muslims made, imbecile.

You should be banned for provoking Islam and Muslims.

Now go to sleep Soldat-Communist.

http://www.1001inventions.com/exhibition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world