Announcement

**tor_khan** · 05-23-2010, 02:27 AM

The final video at "Do Schools Kill Creativity" was shown by a colleague at a meeting recently.

Its a pity how even today academics rule supreme over creativity - music, art, craft are valuable part of child development.

Think how so many of the inventions that we live with today have arisen because people have taken the non-conventional path.

**tor_khan** · 05-23-2010, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Aseer Jaan

^I don't think what you said applies in the USA.
Maybe in countries like Britain and the East where useless memorization is encouraged.

??

I would differ on the idea that the in Britain schools are based on "useless memorisation" - there are faults, but its less to do with pedagogy. There are other pressures - and these are mostly driven by economics.

I've worked in the US educational system and the British educational system and speak as I see it. On the whole, I would argue that the US system is more bookish and there is per person less government spending on education. The UK system has been radically overhauled several times since the introduction of the welfare state.

There is a slight tendancy for the US to look upon the English as a country of wooden school desks, ink wells and teachers wearing mortar boards, black gowns and riding to school on a penny farthing.

**tor_khan** · 05-23-2010, 10:31 AM

^Absolutely no doubt about it Afghan Lady - In general though, industry has a big hand in funding research in universities across the globe. That is why with over 60% of the female population in places like Iran being University graduates (much higher that say the US), it is still the US that is at the forefront in terms of new technologies.

That wasn't the point that I was originally making. It was more about creativity in schools and the lack of importance given to it over conventional academics. I still think that art, music etc. is something that often gets pushed to the edge and can only really take place outside of the school curriculum - you know extra classes in guitar or piano etc. and that curriculums still appear to be geared towards academics - this is all fair and well, but still too many young learners are forced through the regular academic routes.

In life it takes all sorts, and I was speaking as an educationalist who believes in creativity. The video of Ken Robinson is worth a look.

**tor_khan** · 05-23-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Aseer Jaan

Tor Khan I said what I said and I stand behind it.

Why?

1) In my university, (New York University) when I speak to british students all the complain about is how horrible their school system is. How they are forced to memorize useless things just so they can get good grades.

oh and they also say they come here to the USA to get a better education as compared to the U.K..

Now in Pakistan they have british system of education if you have ever travelled to Pakistan you will notice all the students do is memorize.

They are forced into memorizing word by word answers.

In fact when you put your own words in an answer they mark it wrong..

I hope you don't think I am trying to attack you. I am a proud Pashtun and a proud Kandahary the last thing I would want to do is attack you. I'd just be interested in your response .

I respect everything you do around here.

You may be completely right in your experience Aseer Jan - though to be honest, I'm very curious with the regards to the Brit students you're talking about here. There are restrictions in any system, but one example of where the British system excels is in general assessment which is very pro-student with lots of competence based assessments that take the place of exams. The pendulum moves on this one, but I personally think that's better because you can't cram 2/3 years worth of courses and expect to show it in a 2/3 hour exam.

When I lived (and worked in elementary schools) in the midwest, I couldn't get over the Grade A obsession and with lower and upper elementary and high school kids, it was even worse. There's an element of this in the British system too, but like I say assessment is much more holistic. There is much more spending in the UK on outdoor education - taking kids on residential field trips (subsidised by the state) - free music tuition and generous supplies in public schools. ("Public" in the UK, actually means private - but that's something else).

Old habits die hard and in the US people would stop and ask me (honestly) if my home in London was near the Queen of England's palace. This was down to limited experiences of midwestern American kids raised on MTV as opposed to classical literature. And its also without question - American kids are behind their European counterparts in Math[s] - the Hungarians and Fins for example are doing the Maths aged 14 that American kids are doing at 18. The UK, quite sadly being a client state of the US, is fast following the American example of MTV and culturally acceptable Maths-hate.

The Pakistani education system is loosely based on a British system that existed pre-welfare state where it was based on rote learning. There's very little room for dynamism there, and to be honest, it is this aspect of education that brings me to the Gulf (my job here is to move schools away from that very didactic style of teaching common in the East).

These are just observations of my experience of education. There isn't a perfect way of doing this - I constantly pick holes with the British system that I was raised under. I'm interested in learning (hence being an educationalist and doing this as my MA), and interested in creative educational experiences. I'm keen to learn how other societies approach this - Japan despite being a very traditional system produces some amazing results and look at how creative the Japanese are for such an order-driven society.

No, I don't take what you were saying as an attack. I was wondering what lense you might be looking at the UK through, that's all.